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An independent tribunal sitting in London has concluded that the killing of detainees in China for organ transplants is continuing, and victims include imprisoned followers of the Falun Gong movement.
The China Tribunal, chaired by Sir Geoffrey Nice QC, who was a prosecutor at the international criminal tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, said in a unanimous determination at the end of its hearings it was “certain that Falun Gong as a source - probably the principal source - of organs for forced organ harvesting”.
“The conclusion shows that very many people have died indescribably hideous deaths for no reason, that more may suffer in similar ways and that all of us live on a planet where extreme wickedness may be found in the power of those, for the time being, running a country with one of the oldest civilisations known to modern man.”
He added: “There is no evidence of the practice having been stopped and the tribunal is satisfied that it is continuing.”
[...] China announced in 2014 that it would stop removing organs for transplantation from executed prisoners and has dismissed the claims as politically-motivated and untrue.
[...] There have been calls for the UK parliament to ban patients from travelling to China for transplant surgery. More than 40 MPs from all parties have backed the motion. Israel, Italy, Spain and Taiwan already enforce such restrictions.
(Score: 2) by loonycyborg on Monday June 24 2019, @07:47PM (8 children)
You're misunderstanding. I didn't state that organ harvesting stems from persecution complex. but it's rational to assume that any decisions done by foreign powers will not serve interests of locals. No matter whether there is actually organ harvesting or not. They're incapable of serving truth and justice due to conflict of interest, first and foremost they're PR support of trade war and this didn't change over centuries.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday June 24 2019, @09:06PM (7 children)
What has been "decided" by "foreign powers"?
Right. If actual evil doesn't matter, then why should we care about Chinese concern about alleged decisions by foreign powers?
(Score: 2) by loonycyborg on Monday June 24 2019, @10:16PM (1 child)
You're right exactly. We do not need to care. It's pure PR. A lot of stuff happens in China but they will always pay attention only to stuff that would help them imitate charity and allow gains in PR war. We should not even pretend to make any decisions over what does and does not happen in China. Let alone pronounce judgements. Because they can be implemented only by going to war. So that tribunal is not accountable to Chinese people, is not materially interested in coming up with truth, since it won't matter anyway because it's unenforceable. It's purely manufacture of justification for war that will be used as a cover if it will be ever decided to go to war with China.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 25 2019, @01:28PM
Or a host of activities and sanctions short of war. Even publicizing evils committed by the Chinese government has an effect.
I guess you've never heard of how easy it is to manufacture justifications for war. They won't need some dusty, old report.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 25 2019, @01:50AM (4 children)
Of course the "independent" [slashdot.org] "tribunal" [slashdot.org].
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 25 2019, @05:53AM (3 children)
Meanwhile it's widely known that China has indeed engaged in organ harvesting from prisoners in very recent time. Perhaps they have stopped organ harvesting in 2014 as claimed (which is only five years ago), but it's established fact (admitted to by China itself) not some fantasy spun by "foreign powers".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 25 2019, @01:26PM (2 children)
Followers of Falun Gong fled China after their atrocities [cambridge.org] resulted in actions from law enforcement, and the atrocities did not even stop [guancha.cn] after the escape.
They have since been sponsored by politically oriented organizations including ones [kaiwind.com] closely related to the CIA, so it is not unfair to say FLG is a representative to foreign powers.
... for questionable [rationalwiki.org] interests, and even by faking evidences [chinadaily.com.cn].
Of course they can call them whatever they like; nevertheless, being biased makes them naturally ineligible as a tribunal.
Wait, what's 3+1?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 25 2019, @01:56PM (1 child)
Then where's the evidence of these "atrocities"? Let us keep in mind that quoting Chinese propaganda doesn't count. They wouldn't ever permit a defense of Falun Gong against whatever accusations you list. And as someone has already noted, manufacturing justifications for war, whether it be against another country or a religious group, is trivial to do.
Assuming this is actually true rather than just more propaganda, so what? Helping groups who have fallen afoul of tyranny is a far better use for CIA talent than many things the CIA does.
Unless, of course, that isn't true. So when is your government going to open its activities to outside view so that we can determine for ourselves whether the admitted crimes of the recent past are still ongoing? Whatever else you can say of developed world countries, the dirt gets out. Government-based criminals in the developed world always have to worry that their activities will come to light. But China has a universal system of suppressing truth. It's not perfect, they had to admit that they were killing people for organs after all, but it's far better hidden than anything which could be arranged in the developed world.
Then there would be no tribunals in the world at all. Bias can be reduced, it can't be eliminated. I already noted one way to reduce such biases. Appoint people to the tribunal who are independent of the sponsors of the tribunal. That's why I brought up the list of the people actually on the tribunal. And yes, it should be "4)".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 25 2019, @02:31PM
Labeling something as propaganda is easy: I would hardly believe any of the propaganda by FLG followers, which are too crazy to be taken seriously.
I have presented quite a lot of evidences against the claims by FLG followers, including some [cambridge.org] at least seemingly independent (and here's more [reddit.com]), and I still wait for your analysis instead of blank denial.
Yes, whether against China or against Falun Gong.
Nice circular argument. Pro-tip: we have not settled-down on the evidences for "tyranny".
Nice accusation, except that I did not attempt to deny the existence of prisoner-based organ transplantation (which has been officially stopped since 2015) and the organ black-market.
However, I have still not seen any concrete evidence for the alleged extent of systematic and forced organ organ transplantation on Falun Gong followers, only plenty of falsified or excessively vague ones.
Of course, and let's see what the FCC lead by Ajit Pai has done in these years.