Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by martyb on Tuesday July 16 2019, @10:57PM   Printer-friendly
from the Being-a-Nazi-is-not-cheap dept.

According to The New York Times, Andrew Anglin, whereabouts unknown, could be on the hook for a bit of cash.

The publisher of a neo-Nazi website should pay more than $14 million in damages for encouraging "an online anti-Semitic harassment and intimidation campaign" against a woman in 2016, a federal magistrate judge in Montana recommended on Monday.

In his opinion, the judge, Jeremiah Lynch, also recommended that the publisher, Andrew Anglin, be made to remove all blog posts from the website, The Daily Stormer, that encouraged readers to contact the woman, Tanya Gersh, and her family.

Within months of Mr. Anglin's call for a "troll storm" against them, Ms. Gersh and her family had received more than 700 vulgar and hateful messages, many referring to the Holocaust. They temporarily fled their home.

Mr. Anglin did not appear in court, and his location is unknown. He did not respond to an email on Monday requesting comment on the lawsuit. And it was not clear how much money if any could ever be collected from him.

Nice that Andrew has gone back to where he's from, allegedly Thailand.


Original Submission

 
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday July 16 2019, @11:37PM (32 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday July 16 2019, @11:37PM (#867756) Journal

    even though every single person on this site says Antifa violence is not OK

    Citations needed. Seriously, citations are needed. I think all right leaning people on this site have condemned Antifa violence. Not certain, but I think so. An awful lot of centrists have done so. But, left leaning persons? Mostly, I see them dismissing any left violence, or denying it, or trying to justify it with whataboutisms. I do believe that a number of our left-leaning members are HAPPY to see leftist violence.

    Starting Score:    1  point
    Moderation   0  
       Flamebait=1, Troll=1, Interesting=1, Informative=1, Overrated=1, Underrated=1, Total=6
    Extra 'Troll' Modifier   0  

    Total Score:   1  
  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 16 2019, @11:40PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 16 2019, @11:40PM (#867761)

    Lol, nice circular logic.

    "I totally bring up Antifa violence all the time as whataboutism to avoid dealing with far right extremism that I personally agree with and you LEFTISTS just dismiss it like nothing!"

    Citations needed, HA! You're such a twat, but hey projection and gaslighting are your preferred methods of "debate."

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday July 16 2019, @11:51PM (3 children)

    by DeathMonkey (1380) on Tuesday July 16 2019, @11:51PM (#867762) Journal

    Antifa violence is not OK.

    I'm just sick of this obvious attempt to equivocate a few asshole protesters with Nazis running down people with cars, shooting up churches and sending bombs to people.

    • (Score: 0, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday July 17 2019, @03:52AM (2 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 17 2019, @03:52AM (#867830) Journal

      So, tell me something. At what point in time, precisely, did Hitler become a monster? Sometime before or after The Night of Broken Glass? Sometime before or after he wrote his tortured fairy tale, Meinkampf? Sometime before or after he was gassed, in WW1? Or, maybe it wasn't until after the allies discovered his his death camps?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @08:55AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @08:55AM (#867917)

        At what point in time, precisely, did Hitler become a monster?

        Oh, a softball question! When he moved to Arkansas! Did you never hear the American Folk tune, "A Cold Hand from Arkansas"?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @09:12AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @09:12AM (#867921)

        History is written by the winners.

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @12:34AM (6 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @12:34AM (#867778)

    Citations needed. Seriously, citations are needed. I think all right leaning people on this site have condemned Antifa violence. Not certain, but I think so.

    Problem indicator: Runaway thinking again. Of course righties condemn anti-fascist resistence! Gets in the way of them threatening or inflicting violence on others. What we have not seen here on SoylentNews is right-tinctured (racist-infused) people condemning violence by right wing extremist goups like Daily Sturnmer. When are you going to condemn right-wing violence, Runaway1956 (((registered gun owner))), instead of inciting it?

    • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday July 17 2019, @03:48AM (5 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 17 2019, @03:48AM (#867828) Journal

      Poor little dummy, I've often condemned right wingnuts like white supremacists. Remember when I said we should have let the Nazis and the commies fight it out in Charlottesville? Every dead Nazi is a victory for democracy, and every dead commie is a victory for democracy.

      But, oh, most of Soylent gets angry at me for saying that because, uhh, errr, the dead commie was a girl, and, uhhh, we weren't supposed to know that she was a commie activist, she was supposed to be presented as an innocent bystander.

      • (Score: 2, Troll) by jmorris on Wednesday July 17 2019, @06:41AM (4 children)

        by jmorris (4844) on Wednesday July 17 2019, @06:41AM (#867880)

        Nice concept but it would have been impossible. Antifa and the local government were one. Read the official State Police after action report, it is damning. If anyone wants to know who to blame for the violence and the heart attack, start with the Governor and work down to the local police leadership. But curious why you are equating lawful protesters, people who paid for a permit, set up a stage and had the local law enforcement did their duty would have had a rally, waved some signs, gave speeches and peacefully went home, to the violent Communists of Antifa. Whether one believes they were all Nazis or not, used to be even Nazis had a right to assemble, march and protest. The ACLU even put their money where their principles were and defended them, the KKK, pretty much anyone peacefully protesting.

        But if one does do the thought experiment of C-Ville with the police and National Guard units pulling out and just "letting them fight it out" it would have been a massacre. Antifa did bring a few guns (which was what Fields was fleeing from when he ran into the main body of Antifa protesters) but they would have found themselves greatly outgunned. Many of the group protesting the removal of the statue were quite well armed, it is a testament their fire discipline that even under the most severe provocation (homemade "flame throwers", etc.) not a single Antifa was shot. One loose cannon did fire off a few rounds over their heads even after being told of the danger. (The National Guard was lying in wait for start of gunplay so they could execute an order to slaughter the "Nazis". Again, read the State Police report.) Again, take the government forces out of the equation and Antifa would have suffered crippling casualties.

        Which is why it is good that the Right took the correct lesson from that day's events. Street protests are -always- Power speaking to Truth. So until we get a State level sponsor, such as Antifa has, we should avoid such traps. The Proud Boys idiots in Portland still haven't got the memo. Alas. Somebody will end up getting killed. A journalist has already suffered brain damage from Antifa for the crime of covering their illegal activities. Again, they are immune from prosecution because the local government is basically Antifa.

        • (Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @07:31AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @07:31AM (#867902)

          Total bullshit, jmorris you ferking unamerican! The Cops in Portland have well know right-wing tendencies, as do all cops everywhere. Text-messages have been leaked. They then to be closeted gays, as well, but that is a steroids thing. So take your spin and twist it up your anal orafice, jmorris of the right-twisted sphincter! Anti-fa is coming for you, for the same reason the government is coming for you, and that is because you are basically a criminal, an enemy of the people, and thus an enemy of the state, which are "we, the people". I would be very afraid if I were you. I would stop posting in this forum, and I would realize that at this point Gab is nothing but a honeypot for really stupid right-wing extremists. We, the people, are coming for you, since you are not one of us. I suggest you go back to where you came from.

          Oh, the SJW Wet Squad is still tracking you. They just fixed that "secure messaging" thing. It is what you don't know that can hurt you.

        • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday July 17 2019, @03:04PM (1 child)

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday July 17 2019, @03:04PM (#868014) Journal

          Who wants to be this is realDonaldTrump modding himself up again?

          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @03:42PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @03:42PM (#868030)

            Why do you think jmorris posts so rarely these days?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @05:34PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @05:34PM (#868109)

          If this is true, why are you still alive?

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Wednesday July 17 2019, @01:12AM (19 children)

    by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday July 17 2019, @01:12AM (#867785)

    There are important differences between antifa and fascist violence:
    1. Fascists target people for saying things they don't like. Antifa generally targets people who are either engaged in violence or intending to engage in violence.
    2. Fascists also targets people for aspects of their lives that they cannot change, such as being genetically Jewish, non-white, or gay. Antifa targets people for being fascist, which is a choice they made. Fascists could always avoid further targeting by antifa by renouncing fascism, whereas fascist targets cannot avoid further targeting by renouncing antifa (which they might not have been in the first place).
    3. Fascists frequently use lethal force. Antifa generally uses non-lethal force, or sometimes no force at all (e.g. many antifa folks focus on getting fascists fired from their jobs).

    You desperately want to make fascists the victims here. I will concede that fascists and antifa are morally equivalent when I see somebody spouting antifa slogans or involved in antifa do any of the following:
    1. Walk into a group of people and shoot as many as they can before someone takes them down.
    2. Run people over with their car.
    3. Shoot into crowds.
    4. Indeed, kill anybody at all.
    5. On a large scale, threaten to kill people, including members of Congress.
    Fascists have done all of these things. Antifa has not, at least according to sources I was able to find.

    --
    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @02:55AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @02:55AM (#867816)

      genetically Jewish

      What, does yahweh re-write their DNA when they chop their foreskins off?

      It's funny how being jewish is a race when it's convenient. A religion when that's convenient. And an ethnicity when that's convenient.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @04:31AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @04:31AM (#867838)

        It's funny how being jewish is a race when it's convenient. A religion when that's convenient. And an ethnicity when that's convenient.

        I found "genetically Jewish" kind of odd/funny too, but it was pretty easy to just read it as awkward phrasing for, "of Jewish heritage".

        The funny thing is that folks who hate Jewish people are the ones who made Jewish-ness into an ethnicity. You could be an atheist born of a single Jewish parent and a non-Jewish parent and the Nazis in the US will still hate you, maybe beat you up, or even kill you-- same as the original Nazis, who looked at family lines for percentages of Jewish blood, to know who to round up and murder.

        So, yeah, the right has always done stuff like this when convenient for them.

        • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @08:38AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @08:38AM (#867912)

          Personally, I probably count as one or both of these - as in my paternal grandmother was born to a Jewish father and Christian mother. She (my grandmother) totally denounced Judaism, running away from an arranged marriage, and later, running away from the Nazis in 1930's Germany. Both my parents were Quakers.

          Presumably, the Nazis would still go after my grandchildren. Sanity and Nazism are clearly incompatible.

        • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday July 17 2019, @12:56PM

          by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday July 17 2019, @12:56PM (#867971)

          The "genetically Jewish" was to clarify that this wasn't necessarily people who practice Judaism. For instance, when the Nazis went after Jews, if you had a grandfather who was Jewish, you were Jewish for their purposes, even though according to Judaism you aren't Jewish unless you convert. That also meant that converting to Christianity or even aiding the Nazis did not save you from the gas chambers.

          And the neo-Nazis take their cues on this from the original Nazis.

          --
          The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @05:06AM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @05:06AM (#867848)

      I was wondering if I was reading a really old comment or if you just haven't done a search for "Andy Ngo" and are uninformed -- you know the gay POC a bunch of pasty white Portland Antifa bashed?

      Or how about the dude in WA who tried to set ICE on fire because anarchists don't believe in borders? He wrote some interesting music if you like folksy stuff: https://archive.org/details/emma-durutti---the-audio-manifesto/01+post.mp3 [archive.org]

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Thexalon on Wednesday July 17 2019, @01:18PM (3 children)

        by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday July 17 2019, @01:18PM (#867977)

        Andy Ngo is alive and well.

        You are trying to make that equivalent to the murders of:
        - Heather Heyer (car attack in Charlottesville)
        - Joyce Fienberg, Richard Gottfried, Rose Mallinger, Jerry Rabinowitz, Cecil Rosenthal, David Rosenthal, Bernice Simon, Sylvan Simon, Daniel Stein, Melvin Wax, Irving Younger (Pittsburgh, PA synagogue)
        - Lori Gilbert-Kaye (Poway, CA synagogue)
        - Blaze Bernstein (Orange County, CA)
        - Clementa C. Pinckney, Cynthia Marie Graham Hurd, Susie Jackson, Ethel Lee Lance, Depayne Middleton-Doctor, Tywanza Sanders, Daniel L. Simmons, Sharonda Coleman-Singleton, Myra Thompson (Charleston, SC church shooting)
        And that's just in the last few years, in the US alone, and I probably missed more than a few. Most of the victims I just mentioned had absolutely nothing to do with Antifa, but were simply black or Jewish and that made them targets.

        Read through my standards again. The attack on Andy Ngo, even if we completely accept the conservative description of events, is not equivalent either morally or legally to multiple mass murders.

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @05:33PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @05:33PM (#868108)

          >Andy Ngo is alive and well.
          He has brain damage. He has been threatened with death if he is found in public.

          How is that "well"?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 02 2019, @05:34AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 02 2019, @05:34AM (#874487)

            Antifa does not value functioning brains.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 02 2019, @06:21AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 02 2019, @06:21AM (#874499)

          Heather Heyer would not have died that moment (hard to say day, given that she was a morbidly obese chain smoker) had police prevented the non-permited groups from conflicting with the permited groups.

          Lets say a crafty adversary wants to burn down a building and not get caught. He can inconspicuously empty gasoline in the smoker's area. The court can sentence the smoker for the fire, but the person who intentionally elevated the odds in favor of the intended crime gets away.

    • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday July 17 2019, @11:53AM (6 children)

      by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday July 17 2019, @11:53AM (#867945) Journal

      Did you never read the Gulag Archipelago, Thexalon? From what you asserted, you should. The Killing Fields would be a good follow-up.

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
      • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday July 17 2019, @01:29PM (5 children)

        by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday July 17 2019, @01:29PM (#867981)

        So let me get this straight: Are you saying that because the Russian Communists and Khmer Rouge were evil bastards, that justifies murdering Jews and black people in the United States?

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
        • (Score: 3, Touché) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday July 17 2019, @02:26PM (3 children)

          by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday July 17 2019, @02:26PM (#868000) Journal

          Thexalon, given how long we have both contributed to this community and the time we have had to get the cut of each other's jib, that insinuation is unworthy of you. So I'm going to pretend that you didn't just try to willfully misconstrue what I wrote as a justification for "murdering Jews and black people in the United States."

          You were defining fascism as people who kill others based on factors over which they have no control. My point was that by your definition Stalin and Pol Pot were also fascists, when in fact they were socialists. If you go by the numbers (as if mass murders can really be compared on a numerical basis) socialists hold the world record for mass murder, by far. So the semiotic othering you were consciously or subconsciously employing skirts objective fact in favor of partisan conceit.

          It must also be pointed out that mass murdering others based on race, creed, etc. really has nothing to do with a particular system of government else we must perforce ridiculously try to jam the Rwandan genocide into such a mold or re-cast democracy as a demonic system that was entirely in force for the whole process of destroying the Amerrican Indians.

          In short, it's not that simple. And, when we persist in purposeful, intentionally reductive thinking, it's glib.

          --
          Washington DC delenda est.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @03:49PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @03:49PM (#868037)

            Ugh how stupid are you to be dragging that tired line out again? At least your point is about governing ideology even if it is really stupid.

            Dictatorships != socialism. The Nazis were not socialists beyond their populist label.

            Maybe don't try and shoehorn in your personal politics if you don't want to be misconstrued. Context my dear phoenix, context.

          • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday July 17 2019, @05:37PM

            by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday July 17 2019, @05:37PM (#868111) Journal

            And North Korea is a Democracy!

            Afterall, it says so right in the name: Democratic People's Republic of Korea

          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Thexalon on Wednesday July 17 2019, @06:26PM

            by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday July 17 2019, @06:26PM (#868136)

            I was defining fascism as people who say proudly that they're fascists, Nazis, neo-Nazis, or alt-right (which is basically a rebranding of "fascist"). I then described some of the murders people who have espoused that ideology have committed in recent years.

            You responded by saying, in essence, "Do you know how bad the Communists of the 1940's and 1970's were?" There were only the following interpretations available:
            1. Your argument was completely irrelevant to the discussion and a red herring.
            2. Communist murders should be attributed to modern-day antifa, which makes fascist murders not all that bad by comparison. Incidentally, this is precisely the argument that the German Nazi Party used to convince the French, Brits, and Americans to tolerate them for as long as they did.

            As far as I'm concerned, there's no such thing as a morally justified mass murder. Period. End of discussion. There's no "Yes, but ...". There's no "But the other guys ...". There's no "We have to think about the big picture ...". And that's true regardless of the politics claimed by the perpetrators or the victims.

            And while it is also true that there are mass murderers who aren't fascist, every single fascist government that has ever existed committed mass murder: Franco did it. Mussolini did it. Hitler did it. Showa did it. Pinochet did it. So if you are trying to justify fascism, you are trying to justify mass murder.

            --
            The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @06:28PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17 2019, @06:28PM (#868138)

          Are you saying that because the Russian Communists and Khmer Rouge were evil bastards, that justifies murdering Jews and black people in the United States?

          Yes, this is what Phoenix666 is saying, and what all the alt-right nazi supporters here are saying. Which is why they need to be arrested and imprisoned so they can join a nice white supremacist prison gang, like the Aryan Brotherhood.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 18 2019, @05:31AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 18 2019, @05:31AM (#868385)

      Replace fascists with communists in the parent post and you might see the problem. Communists also target people and kill people when they try to take power. Would you support the same rules of engagement for "anti-com" targeting communists like antifa targets fascists?

      Antifa professor Eric Clanton split someone's head open with a bike lock. That was a near kill. So there you have assault with a deadly weapon because someone was supporting a political position to the right of communism. They do not target only fascists as any reasonable person would define it. They are stupid cowards motivated by a political worldview that any adult would call childish. It appears that for now, Antifa kills brain cells, starting with their own.

      Antifa harasses reporters who cover their violence, and left wing news provides cover for them. Do not expect unbiased reporting about them.

      Antifa made Hilter's rise to power possible. Antifa destroyed property, then as they do now. Some people self organized to protect against this destruction. They called themselves the brown shirts. Governments exist to protect rights and property. Do you see the problem yet? Antifa gave their opposition power by giving them lots of jobs in positions that require trust. They will make the same mistake again, if we let them.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @04:18AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @04:18AM (#870206)

        Andy Ngo: Beaten & robbed on 29 June by at least a dozen masked antifa assailants in downtown Portland. Andy was hospitalized with head contusions, a ripped ear, and a brain hemorrhage.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 02 2019, @05:31AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 02 2019, @05:31AM (#874486)

        https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/08/01/maga-hat-attack/ [cbslocal.com]
        6:50 p.m. Tuesday on Canal Street near Greene Street in Manhattan. (July 30, 2019)