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posted by martyb on Tuesday July 23 2019, @04:52AM   Printer-friendly
from the wait-a-few-years,-it-will-change-again dept.

The Paleo, or 'caveman' diet, consists of meat, vegetables, nuts, and limited fruit. It excludes grains, legumes, dairy, salt, and refined sugars and oils. Unfortunately in a recent study researchers also found it leads to reduced beneficial gut bacteria and twice the level of trimethylamin-n-oxide (TMAO), which is linked closely with increased risk of heart disease.

[Lead researcher Dr Angela Genoni] said the reason TMAO was so elevated in people on the Paleo diet appeared to be the lack of whole grains in their diet.

"We found the lack of whole grains were associated with TMAO levels, which may provide a link between the reduced risks of cardiovascular disease we see in populations with high intakes of whole grains," she said.

TMAO is produced in the gut, and gut bacteria change based on diet composition. In this case, the removal of whole grains, with "resistant starch and many other fermentable fibres that are vital to the health of your gut microbiome"

"Additionally, the Paleo diet includes greater servings per day of red meat, which provides the precursor compounds to produce TMAO, and Paleo followers consumed twice the recommended level of saturated fats, which is cause for concern.

The article conludes that "A variety of fiber components, including whole grain sources may be required to maintain gut and cardiovascular health."

Modified Paleo anyone?

Journal Reference
Genoni, A., Christophersen, C.T., Lo, J. et al. Eur J Nutr (2019). https://doi.org/10.1007/s00394-019-02036-y


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by istartedi on Tuesday July 23 2019, @05:05AM (25 children)

    by istartedi (123) on Tuesday July 23 2019, @05:05AM (#870225) Journal

    Humans who lived prior to agriculture and cities only needed to live long enough to reproduce, and to be able to compete with other hunter-gatherers under similar conditions. Evolution doesn't always favor longevity. We aren't certain how long these humans lived, but there's a good chance most of them died of other things before they got old enough for heart disease.

    In other words, paleo diet doesn't need modification. It needs to be tossed in the bin with other fad diets.

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  • (Score: 4, Funny) by c0lo on Tuesday July 23 2019, @05:31AM (13 children)

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday July 23 2019, @05:31AM (#870227) Journal

    We aren't certain how long these humans lived

    We have an upper limit, though. Max 969 years [wikipedia.org]

    In other words, paleo diet doesn't need modification.

    True.

    It needs to be tossed in the bin with other fad diets.

    False. While it may need (as a possible solution), it doesn't follow that it must be. Other possible solutions can exist.
    For instance: keep your diet and accept a death 14-20 years after the procreation age - i.e. just enough to bring your offspring to their procreation age. If you accepted IVF and cryopreservation, you can reduce this even further for non-breeding members (i.e. for paleodiet incels)

    (large grin)

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @07:40AM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @07:40AM (#870247)

      The funny thing here is that the Bible states that before the Flood, people were supposed to be vegetarian:

      And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. — Genesis 1:29 (KJV)

      This all changed after the Flood:

      Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. — Genesis 9:3 (KJV)

      Since Methuselah lived before the Flood, he most likely had been a follower of the vegetarian proscription of Genesis 1:29.

      Of course, this all assumes you're a good Fundamentalist who believes that the universe was created six thousand years ago and everything in the Bible is literally true...

      • (Score: 3, Funny) by MostCynical on Tuesday July 23 2019, @11:33AM

        by MostCynical (2589) on Tuesday July 23 2019, @11:33AM (#870287) Journal

        And God said,..

        which god [skepticsannotatedbible.com] said that?

        --
        "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
      • (Score: 2) by driverless on Tuesday July 23 2019, @01:37PM (3 children)

        by driverless (4770) on Tuesday July 23 2019, @01:37PM (#870316)

        The funny thing here is that the Bible states that before the Flood, people were supposed to be vegetarian:

        The Bible also says that we need to watch more cat videos:

        And God said, Behold, thou shalt watch LOLCat videos on thine Youtube, and I shalt be pleased by the videos of cute kitties - Appendix to the Apocrypha 14:20 (KJextendedV)

        And that's not even getting to the kinky shit in the Book of Stagliano.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @04:10PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @04:10PM (#870366)

          You reminded me of the lolcat bible project. I just looked it up, it's still on the wayback machine but it seems to have shut down about 10 years ago. I now feel both old and sad. kthxbai

        • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday July 23 2019, @04:39PM (1 child)

          by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Tuesday July 23 2019, @04:39PM (#870380) Journal

          Indeed. I've often thought we need some Bible updates for modern tech. For instance, take one of my favorite Bible verses, Proverbs 26:11 [biblehub.com]:

          As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly. (KJV)

          I mean, that's still true. Dogs are pretty stupid in that way. But we could easily update it:

          As a teenager returneth to check his smartphone after but a single minute passeth, so a fool returneth to his folly.

          • (Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Tuesday July 23 2019, @11:12PM

            by Pslytely Psycho (1218) on Tuesday July 23 2019, @11:12PM (#870519)

            A single minute?
            Damn you're generous.
            (watches two teens walking down the road texting (to each other?), one walks into a signpost, the other, well he just keeps on a walking......)

            --
            Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
      • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday July 23 2019, @05:46PM

        by DeathMonkey (1380) on Tuesday July 23 2019, @05:46PM (#870409) Journal

        Of course, this all assumes you're a good Fundamentalist who believes that the universe was created six thousand years ago and everything in the Bible is literally true...

        *except for all the parts you don't like.

        The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.
        Leviticus 19:34

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @08:34AM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @08:34AM (#870251)

      Max 969 years

      Since they probably counted "years" in terms of revolutions of the Moon (easier to count moon years without going blind), that would then be,

      969 moon years * 27.333 (days/moon year) / 365.25 (days/solar year) = 72.5 solar years

      which kind of makes sense, no?

      • (Score: 4, Informative) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday July 23 2019, @04:52PM (4 children)

        by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Tuesday July 23 2019, @04:52PM (#870386) Journal

        969 moon years * 27.333 (days/moon year) / 365.25 (days/solar year) = 72.5 solar years

        While that's one theory of how to interpret the ages, it doesn't quite square with how the ages gradually lessen [wikipedia.org] over the course of the early books of the Bible. Yes, you have quite a few in the 700-900 year-old range early in Genesis, but then the generations after Methuselah tend to mostly have ages in the 400-500 range, then after Noah (who was an exception) they decrease for several generations to the 200-300 year range, then you get Abraham (175), Isaac (180), Jacob (147), Joseph (110). Then later Moses (120) and Joshua (110). Finally when you get to folks like King David, the age is a more realistic 70 years.

        The "moon year" theory doesn't really make sense with that pattern.

        which kind of makes sense, no?

        I think you're looking for the wrong book to "make sense" out of. There's a LOT of other weird stuff that needs explaining in the book of Genesis aside from a few aberrant age numbers.

        • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Wednesday July 24 2019, @03:22AM (3 children)

          by Reziac (2489) on Wednesday July 24 2019, @03:22AM (#870581) Homepage

          Why assume that how calendars were reckoned didn't change across the several thousand years of the Old Testament??

          --
          And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
          • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday July 30 2019, @04:24AM

            by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Tuesday July 30 2019, @04:24AM (#873003) Journal

            Sure, calendar changes could have happened. But a simple shift from a lunar to solar reckoning (which would be maybe a reasonable historical idea) doesn't explain the inconsistent trends in the Bible. That's all I'm saying.

            AND, if you look at the chronology I linked, you'll see a number of bizarre and weird overlaps that would have to span separate "reckoning" eras. It"s all a mess that's not easily explained by a couple different calendars.

          • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday July 30 2019, @04:53AM (1 child)

            by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Tuesday July 30 2019, @04:53AM (#873017) Journal

            Also, for the record, most of these proposals result in ridiculous inconsistencies with even the most cursory examination. For example, if Methuselah's age is measured in lunar months, then his father Enoch would have fathered him (using the same conversion) when Enoch was roughly 5 years old. Seem likely?

            Also, you have to explain away simultaneous other reckonings, for example where Noah in his 601st year during the flood starts enumerating months during that "year" each of which appears to have 30 days.

            The more reasonable conclusion is that the trend for extreme ages gradually decreases, and this trend was either made up (by an author looking to emphasize the greatness of ancestors through exaggerated age, something seen in other chronicles in the near East during that time) or actually happened (if you are a true believer, who assumed the gradual pollution of lineage after Adam decreased longevity).

            Trying to come up with half-ass lunar/solar explanations is just not helpful nor reasonable. It's the worst kind of biblical apologetics, because it generally comes out of ignorance -- I mean, did you even take two minutes to think about the post you were supporting and whether it made ANY sense with the data from Genesis?

            • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Tuesday July 30 2019, @07:09AM

              by Reziac (2489) on Tuesday July 30 2019, @07:09AM (#873035) Homepage

              Not a believer myself, but it's an interesting exercise. I very much doubt that lifespans changed significantly. I think it's most likely a mix of lunar years, solar years, copying errors, bad translations, and occasional poetic hyperbole -- which would account for the galloping inconsistencies. Who knows what the originals said, or how much material got added or inadvertently mixed in by the obsessive copying that went on as soon as officialdom discovered writing (so there are copies of copies of copies of piles and piles of whatever anyone previously recorded, relevant or not.)

              There's an interesting example in... I think I was randomly perusing the book of Daniel ... where it's going along talking about some king did this or that, and suddenly there's an inventory of some peon's livestock, and how much tax they paid... and then it goes back to the history of whomever. Pretty obviously the peon's tax records got mixed into the stack, and through generations of copying became canon.

              --
              And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
  • (Score: 2) by bradley13 on Tuesday July 23 2019, @11:53AM (9 children)

    by bradley13 (3053) on Tuesday July 23 2019, @11:53AM (#870291) Homepage Journal

    "Evolution doesn't always favor longevity."

    I would argue that evolution almost never favors longevity. Longevity gets in the way of adaptability through evolutionary change.

    Larger animals tend to live longer, because of the sheer investment in building their bodies. It takes longer to grow an elephant than a mouse. Beyond that, evolution is simple: Get that body to reproductive age, let it live long enough to raise a few offspring, and then evolution is all done with it.

    We want to live longer, and the necessary machinery is largely even present in our bodies. I've read of breeding experiments on insects that - in very few generations - tripled the average lifespan. The problem is: we can't do selective breeding on humans (or, anyway, it doesn't help us) - so we want to find a more direct way to trigger that "repair and maintenance" machinery in our bodies.

    --
    Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday July 23 2019, @04:25PM (5 children)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday July 23 2019, @04:25PM (#870375) Journal

      evolution almost never favors longevity. Longevity gets in the way of adaptability through evolutionary change.

      The Vorlons will not be pleased.

      --
      People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
      • (Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Tuesday July 23 2019, @11:31PM (4 children)

        by Pslytely Psycho (1218) on Tuesday July 23 2019, @11:31PM (#870526)

        I worry more about the Vril's reaction.

        Link to the absolutely factual documentary preview:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoWLUmaZUHw [youtube.com]

        They live a lot closer.....
        For you see, the Earth is hollow....

        --
        Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
        • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday July 24 2019, @12:55PM (3 children)

          by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 24 2019, @12:55PM (#870626) Journal

          ... and I have touched the sky ?

          --
          People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
          • (Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Wednesday July 24 2019, @04:53PM (2 children)

            by Pslytely Psycho (1218) on Wednesday July 24 2019, @04:53PM (#870748)

            I so loved that episode! However I was quoting the Moon Führer. Describing the Vril city Agartha at the center of the Earth.

            --
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            • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday July 24 2019, @05:24PM (1 child)

              by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 24 2019, @05:24PM (#870764) Journal

              I did look at your YouTube link. But I couldn't resist.

              --
              People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
              • (Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Wednesday July 24 2019, @08:11PM

                by Pslytely Psycho (1218) on Wednesday July 24 2019, @08:11PM (#870840)

                Nor should you of....(:

                --
                Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday July 23 2019, @05:08PM

      by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Tuesday July 23 2019, @05:08PM (#870392) Journal

      Beyond that, evolution is simple: Get that body to reproductive age, let it live long enough to raise a few offspring, and then evolution is all done with it.

      I agree with you for the most part. But for social animals, there can be further selective pressure. Humans, like many primates, are assumed to come from groups that organized into small clans. In such groups, there may be advantages to having somewhat older and more experienced individuals around. For example, it's generally been assumed that the "hunter" was the dominant source of nutrition in hunter-gatherer societies. But some recent studies of still-extant hunter-gatherer groups show that in many cases the gathering of vegetable food sources by mothers and aunts and grandmothers is even a more significant source of consistent food than the male dominant hunters. So far from being a hindrance or an "extra mouth to feed," an older experienced individual in a early hominid social group might have been essential to the survival of the group by bringing in more resources (e.g., to raise children and increase survival).

      And then we have other theories about the utility of having folks beyond child-bearing age who can help raise and supervise kids (making them less likely to succumb to disease or accident while parents are out gathering food, etc.), as well as the actual passing down of knowledge and skills that can't just come as effectively from having, say, older siblings fill such a role. Again, there have been recent studies suggesting potential links in less-advanced societies where having a grandparent (usually a grandmother) around tends to lower child mortality and also allow child-bearing age to be lower (thus increasing potential offspring).

      Much of this research is still in the early speculative stages, but it's certainly possible for social benefits to accrue and thus create an evolutionary benefit when a group has older productive members.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @11:15PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @11:15PM (#870522)

      Longevity is advantageous for species practicing cooperative rearing of offspring. Regardless of body size: see eq. parrots, corvids, mole-rats.

    • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Tuesday July 30 2019, @07:20AM

      by Reziac (2489) on Tuesday July 30 2019, @07:20AM (#873037) Homepage

      Actually, we have done the breeding experiment. Per various DNA research, genes for higher intelligence also produce improved health, thus fewer runts and greater average longevity. DNA studies of medieval peasants vs nobility noted that the differences in stature and health weren't just environmental -- they were mostly genetic. And until modern times, the higher-ranked (ie. more successful) the parents, the more offspring, and v.v.. Basically, natural selection was doing its job, improving the net genetic worth of the human species.

      Of course now we do it the other way around, so the low IQ types breed like rats, while the high-IQ types take themselves out of the gene pool.

      --
      And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @11:05PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @11:05PM (#870515)

    Present-day hunter-gatherers live, on average, rather LONGER than regular village peasants do around there. Which is absolutely not a secret.
    https://www.marksdailyapple.com/life-expectancy-hunter-gatherer/ [marksdailyapple.com]