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posted by martyb on Saturday August 03 2019, @04:04AM   Printer-friendly
from the if-you-can't-fix-it,-break-it dept.

U.S. pulls out of Soviet-era nuclear missile pact with Russia

The United States formally withdrew from a landmark nuclear missile pact with Russia on Friday after determining that Moscow was in violation of the treaty, something the Kremlin has repeatedly denied.

Washington signalled it would pull out of the arms control treaty six months ago unless Moscow stuck to the accord. Russia called the move a ploy to exit a pact the United States wanted to leave anyway in order to develop new missiles.

The 1987 Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF) was negotiated by then-U.S. President Ronald Reagan and Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev.

INF treaty.

Also at BBC and NPR.

Previously: President Trump Warns That the U.S. Will Pull out of Nuclear Forces Treaty and Build Up its Arsenal


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  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Arik on Saturday August 03 2019, @04:20AM (20 children)

    by Arik (4543) on Saturday August 03 2019, @04:20AM (#874989) Journal
    Interesting. A possible silver lining appears. Hope we get there.
    --
    If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
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  • (Score: 5, Informative) by takyon on Saturday August 03 2019, @04:49AM (19 children)

    by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Saturday August 03 2019, @04:49AM (#875003) Journal

    It sounds like more of a golden lie.

    --
    [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    • (Score: 1) by Arik on Saturday August 03 2019, @04:51AM (6 children)

      by Arik (4543) on Saturday August 03 2019, @04:51AM (#875004) Journal
      How so?
      --
      If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by takyon on Saturday August 03 2019, @11:05AM (5 children)

        by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Saturday August 03 2019, @11:05AM (#875061) Journal

        Do you really think that Russia and China are excited (much less "very, very excited") to enter into a new nuclear treaty with the U.S.? Especially given the less than amicable conditions that led to the current INF collapsing, or China's attention being focused on Hong Kong (and if that escalates further and the U.S. puts out statements in support of Hong Kong...).

        Oh, and since the Trump quote seems to have disappeared from TFAs for some reason:

        https://news.sky.com/story/trump-china-and-russia-very-excited-about-proposed-new-nuclear-pact-11776241 [sky.com]

        Mr Trump said of the proposed new pact: "I've discussed it with President Putin. I've also discussed it with China. And I will tell you China was very, very excited about talking about it and so is Russia. So I think we'll have a deal at some point."

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        [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
        • (Score: 3, Informative) by Arik on Saturday August 03 2019, @04:35PM (4 children)

          by Arik (4543) on Saturday August 03 2019, @04:35PM (#875182) Journal
          Russia, yes, Russia relied on the INF and saved money by doing so. They were very disappointed by the withdrawal, so yes, I could see that being the reaction from Russia.

          China? Yeah, that's less likely. I think they were happy with the INF without being a party to it. But, that doesn't mean this is impossible.

          You still didn't explain what you meant by the previous comment.
          --
          If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
          • (Score: 2) by legont on Sunday August 04 2019, @04:31AM (3 children)

            by legont (4179) on Sunday August 04 2019, @04:31AM (#875380)
            --
            "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
            • (Score: 2) by legont on Sunday August 04 2019, @04:40AM (2 children)

              by legont (4179) on Sunday August 04 2019, @04:40AM (#875383)

              The reason I think mostly is that Chinese sea based rockets are faster and have better range than the US ones. The US can not use aircraft carriers in the region - they are basically floating ducks. The US needs better base for the rockets.

              Another reason is that China does not have deployed nukes. Their strategy is to sit out nuclear strike, dig up their nukes from storage, and strike back.

              Why this is important? It allows China to actually use their rockets say against the US aircraft carrier or even the US mainland without risk of provoking nuclear exchange.

              --
              "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
              • (Score: 2) by Arik on Tuesday August 06 2019, @06:46AM (1 child)

                by Arik (4543) on Tuesday August 06 2019, @06:46AM (#876370) Journal
                That sort of makes sense. Except that the US has plenty of places to park all the missiles they want, all around the region, from las Pilipinas to Korea.

                Don't make me defend the PRC. Don't make me defend Winnie, please. He's my least favorite.

                But the PRC wanting control of the south china sea should be put in context of the control Trump demands not only over the gulf of mexico, but as far away as la Venezuela.

                It's all just an excuse to boost arms budgets in both countries of course.

                --
                If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
                • (Score: 2) by legont on Tuesday August 06 2019, @11:33PM

                  by legont (4179) on Tuesday August 06 2019, @11:33PM (#876808)

                  Let's check the basic numbers. http://statisticstimes.com/economy/united-states-vs-china-economy.php [statisticstimes.com]

                  China is 1.28 US on PPP basis, which many say does not mean too much as the US is still 1.5 China on face dollar value.

                  However the US just accused China of currency manipulation which I'd assume means 25-50% "illegal" devaluation. Does this means the US just accepted that China is an equal if not bigger economy?

                  If so, China has a right for similar military and corresponding policies such as aircraft carriers within striking distance of Washington as well as rocket bases say in Venezuela. Actually, as the biggest and most dynamic economy, China has a responsibility for protecting this world.

                  --
                  "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
    • (Score: 4, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday August 03 2019, @05:20AM (11 children)

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday August 03 2019, @05:20AM (#875009) Homepage Journal

      You think? This is how Trump works. He presents the other parties with a choice between what he wants and something much worse. He's not subtle about it, though I expect he thinks he is. And it does work more often than not.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @06:36AM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @06:36AM (#875019)

        Just like North Korea. And it does work more often than not!

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @01:05PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @01:05PM (#875097)

          No, it does work. Nothing that head cheetos has done has actually worked through.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @01:07PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @01:07PM (#875099)

            *doesn't

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @03:32PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @03:32PM (#875160)

              Might work for South Korea.

          • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Saturday August 03 2019, @08:20PM

            by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Saturday August 03 2019, @08:20PM (#875239) Journal

            Our brave courageous president has been very effective. For the good of the nation. (the nation of Russia, that is) (and North Korea)

            Trump has also been helpful for our poor corporations.

            And a help and inspiration to embolden and empower people who are self-proclaimed Nazis. So self proclaimed that they carry the flag and wear the uniform.

            Yes, really. I know this won't be welcome news by all.

            --
            People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by RamiK on Saturday August 03 2019, @09:57AM (5 children)

        by RamiK (1813) on Saturday August 03 2019, @09:57AM (#875052)

        And it does work more often than not.

        It would take historians decades to quantify and qualify that statement. Forcing other parties to do what you want leaves you as a common enemy between the people who refused and those who had no choice but to agree. So now they won't join your bans on Chinese companies. They won't cooperate on your attempts to more strictly regulate banking and cryptocurrency to fight tax evasion and money laundering. They won't sign with your companies on long term contracts. They won't join your war coalitions. They'll favor third parties for energy imports. They won't adopt your regulations so your nations products will gradually lose their competitive edge...

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        compiling...
        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday August 03 2019, @01:14PM (3 children)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday August 03 2019, @01:14PM (#875103) Homepage Journal

          Man, please. Russia does what it does because Putin thinks it is good for Russia. When he concedes anything to us, it's because he wants something else. Ditto China. Any "let's not offend them in pursuit of a goal" talk is just fear and stupidity.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by RamiK on Saturday August 03 2019, @03:06PM (2 children)

            by RamiK (1813) on Saturday August 03 2019, @03:06PM (#875154)

            Russia and China aren't the ones you shouldn't offend. Ditching the nuclear disarmament agreements isn't a threat for China or Russia. They're already in the mutual annihilation tier. What it does instead is to reinforce the post Georgia and Ukraine impression that that the US won't protect its proxies with its military. And when those allies start arming themselves with nukes or switch to the Russians and Chinese for protection, they tend to stop buying American goods.

            It's sorta like a contemporary variation on domino theory and the containment.

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        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @01:59PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @01:59PM (#875126)

          That is tmb for ya, makes sweeping statements that are impossible to prove and trests them like gospel truth, and you're an idiot if you don't take it the same way.