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Anti-natalists: The people who want you to stop having babies
They believe humans shouldn't have children. Who are the anti-natalists - and how far are they willing to push their ideas?
"Wouldn't it just be better to blow a hole in the side of the earth and just have done with everything?" Thomas, 29, lives in the east of England, and although his idea of blowing up the world is something of a thought experiment, he is certain about one thing - humans should not have babies, and our species should gradually go extinct.
It's a philosophy called anti-natalism. While the idea dates back to ancient Greece, it has recently been given a huge boost by social media. On Facebook and Reddit, there are dozens of anti-natalist groups, some with thousands of members. On Reddit, r/antinatalism has nearly 35,000 members, while just one of the dozens of Facebook groups with an anti-natalist theme has more than 6,000.
They are scattered around the world and have a variety of reasons for their beliefs. Among them are concerns about genetic inheritance, not wanting children to suffer, the concept of consent, and worries about overpopulation and the environment. But they are united in their desire to stop human procreation. And although they are a fringe movement, some of their views, particularly on the state of the earth, are increasingly creeping into mainstream discussion. While not an anti-natalist, the Duke of Sussex recently said he and his wife were planning to have a maximum of two children, because of environmental concerns.
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Wednesday August 14 2019, @08:28PM (1 child)
Indeed. I agree completely. I've actually occasionally hung out reading posts at r/antinatalism for the past several months, because I find their philosophical argumentation so bizarre and illogical, yet they keep propping themselves up by claiming they are the only ones who are actually being rational and logical. (I posted a journal entry on this several months back.)
You'll find out quickly if you go there that they REALLY don't like people who ask the suicide question, because they consider it to be a flippant answer that isn't relevant. Except that it's completely relevant. As Camus once said: the first question any thinking person needs to answer is why not to commit suicide; until you answer that, you can't develop the rest of your philosophy. (I'm paraphrasing.)
And the antinatalists have a philosophy that logically should only result in immediate suicide, except in very unusual cases. Keep in mind that they are not simply people who think more people should reconsider before having a child, or even that most people shouldn't have children. They literally regard having children as an offensive immoral act, and no sentient being should be subjected to the suffering produced by existing.
Effectively, the fundamental premise of their philosophy is that all humans suffer, and it's immoral to bring a being into existence that will suffer without consent. If you try to counter that while all people do suffer sometimes, the vast majority of people tend to say they are satisfied overall with their lives -- well, they don't like that either. They bring in weird hypotheticals that future pleasure of a non-existent being is morally "neutral," while future suffering of a non-existent being is morally offensive, so the latter wins out and no one should have kids. If you again point out that most people seem satisfied with their lives and believe good things to outweigh suffering, they will literally claim that all human beings are "delusional," because we have a cognitive bias that tends to selectively emphasize good things in our memories. (This bias does exist, but they have no evidence it is so powerful as to outweigh subjective judgment for all humans of their own lives.)
So, then if you accept their premise that life is so horrible that no person should ever be born, and if you think you're happy, you're only being deluded by your brain tricking you, and all people are actually suffering much worse overall, then it seems logical that a reasonable person in such a scenario should commit suicide. (I know if I actually believed their arguments, I would view the only moral action as committing suicide immediately. Furthermore, as some of them admit, by an individual's continued existence in an overpopulated world, you are likely contributing to a state of affairs that is leading to suffering of others -- another moral duty to commit suicide immediately.)
But most of them say no. Beyond that, they even strongly downmod and yell at anyone who comes to their forum who ever suggests that they should all commit suicide. It's pathetic. Their only flimsy rationale for denying suicide (excepting cases where people are dependent on another, so a suicide might lead to greater suffering for dependents) is to claim that living beings have an irrational "will to live," so once we're alive, it's hard to "opt out," as we're born with this irrational desire to keep living.
Except making that last argument undermines their entire philosophical premise, because their whole thing is about the following: yes, most humans have an irrational desire to have kids, but they have a moral obligation to NOT have them according to antinatalism. So, we are morally required to deny one irrational desire (procreation), but have no moral requirement to ignore another irrational desire (to stay alive, even when we are suffering, and perhaps even being deluded into believing that we are not suffering greatly).
It's all a bunch of inconsistent hogwash. And yet they all act incredible superior all the time and believe they have found the one, true logical philosophy. And the rest of the world are ignorant morons. It's incredibly weird.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @09:21PM
A lot of your points have a rebuttal here
https://aeon.co/essays/having-children-is-not-life-affirming-its-immoral [aeon.co]
I am confused on why anti-natalists draw such ire from other people, that article caused Aeon to temporarily turn off its comment system . Most people would concede there is no danger of humanity dying out because of their views.