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posted by martyb on Friday August 23 2019, @06:17AM   Printer-friendly
from the tragedy-of-the-commons dept.

I was going to post this to a particular story, but thought this might generate more attention and discussion as a general submission.

Seriously, what is going on with all these troll mods? Just because you disagree with someone, thus earning a "disagree" mod, does not mean that person is a "troll." To steal a definition from Urban Dictionary:

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

Just because you disagree with someone, does not mean they are trying to do the above. Be faster on the "disagree" and slower on the "troll." Under such abuse, it is hard to have a good discussion and, in itself, is trollish behavior by "generally disrupt[ing] normal on-topic discussion." Other than people disciplining themselves, a concerted effort to police such abuses, or making moderation logs public on the bottom of a comment where the score is shown now, I'm unsure of what to do about. As it stands, it is getting increasingly ridiculous to read what discussion is here on any topic remotely controversial, and is expanding outside of even those. It is starting to drive me away from the site, and I'm somewhat confident it is doing the same for others. I'd be interested to see what others think about the depth of the problem, if they even believe it even exists at all, and what solutions you all have for it.

[Ed note. This story is published exactly as received. First off, it bears repeating that complaining about moderations in the comments often leads (rightly) to an off-topic moderation. That is a contributing factor to my decision to run this story. Secondly, moderation is something that I on occasion have found I've fat-fingered and given a different moderation than expected. Thirdly, in the grand scheme of things, a comment's moderation is — relatively speaking — small potatoes. It is NOT a measure of your IQ or value as a human being. or standing in the community. Just accept that stuff happens and that as likely as not, someone will be along to moderate it the other way. Which is a good opportunity to say: PLEASE USE YOUR MOD POINTS! Lastly, if you think a comment was moderated in error, then send the CID (Comment ID) link e.g. "(#876543)" in an email to admin (at) soylentnews (dot) org. Keep in mind however that we are all volunteers here and there most likely will be a delay between when you send out an email and when we can get around to it. --martyb]

[Updated: 20190823_111312 UTC See comment from JR who far more precisely and eloquently expressed the idea I was attempting to. I concur with his assessment. If I want people to upmod a comment of mine that I believe was unfairly downmodded, then I need to be willing to upmod other's mis-modded comments. For perspective, so far this month, anywhere from ~150-~350 mod points were used in any given day. It bears repeating: use your mod points!]


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  • (Score: 4, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Friday August 23 2019, @02:55PM (27 children)

    by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday August 23 2019, @02:55PM (#884133) Journal

    I like how you declaim the hyper partisan nature of discussion. And then blame that problem on the left.

    Starting Score:    1  point
    Moderation   +2  
       Touché=2, Total=2
    Extra 'Touché' Modifier   0  
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   4  
  • (Score: 3, Informative) by tangomargarine on Friday August 23 2019, @03:21PM (25 children)

    by tangomargarine (667) on Friday August 23 2019, @03:21PM (#884152)

    We have also seen that some groups (particularly far-left groups on University campuses)

    *You're* the one saying he's blaming this problem on just left groups. Alt-right speakers getting shouted down on college campuses is a matter of public record.

    --
    "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
    • (Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Friday August 23 2019, @04:00PM (24 children)

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday August 23 2019, @04:00PM (#884182) Journal

      And the President of the United States censored his critics on Twitter in violation of their first amendment rights.

      That seems a much more relevant and serious example compared to some noisy college kids.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by tangomargarine on Friday August 23 2019, @04:11PM

        by tangomargarine (667) on Friday August 23 2019, @04:11PM (#884195)

        And the President of the United States censored his critics on Twitter in violation of their first amendment rights.

        Yeah, I'm not a fan of that either. Although I'm also not sure why Twitter lets you block people that way in the first place, as it seems a bit weird.

        That seems a much more relevant and serious example compared to some noisy college kids.

        These college students are the future of our country, is the scary part. We don't want the next generation to have ears closed to alternate viewpoints.

        You don't go to college to have what you already know reinforced; you go to college to learn new things and be exposed to other ideas and viewpoints. Or at least, that used to be what it was for.

        --
        "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
      • (Score: 3, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday August 23 2019, @07:09PM (22 children)

        You've got it backwards. When you block someone on Twitter it keeps them from seeing your tweets rather than doing anything to theirs. He censored himself.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 23 2019, @08:48PM (21 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 23 2019, @08:48PM (#884345)

          No because you can always log out and read the tweets freely. What it really does is keep you from responding and interacting short of violating the TOS and risking a ban by creating multiple accounts.

          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday August 24 2019, @12:09AM (20 children)

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday August 24 2019, @12:09AM (#884418) Homepage Journal

            No, it doesn't keep you from responding. Through any Twitter client you can absolutely respond to a tweet by someone who has blocked you. Have a friend block you and then respond to something they said that's still in your timeline if you don't believe me. Or just start any tweet with their @nick and it will show up in their mentions, though not as a direct reply to a specific tweet of theirs. All blocking does is stop them from seeing you speak.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 24 2019, @06:01AM (19 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 24 2019, @06:01AM (#884596)

              Yes, which means that you are no longer "responding and interacting" because they can't see your stuff. If I piss you off and you mail a letter to me written on flash paper and the letter catches and disappears into nothingness at the sorting facility or write me an email and hit "delete" instead of "send," have you really responded to me since I never know about it? And that doesn't even get to the "interacting" portion.

              • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday August 24 2019, @06:11AM (18 children)

                by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday August 24 2019, @06:11AM (#884600) Homepage Journal

                Yes, they can see your stuff. You can't see theirs. If you respond directly to a tweet (fairly easy even when blocked) or via mention, they will see it. You need to learn what you're talking about before you go off like this.

                --
                My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 24 2019, @07:35PM (17 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 24 2019, @07:35PM (#884877)

                  https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/someone-blocked-me-on-twitter [twitter.com]

                  Blocking helps people in restricting specific accounts from contacting them, seeing their Tweets, and following them.

                  https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/blocking-and-unblocking-accounts [twitter.com]

                  You will not receive notifications from accounts you block, or accounts that you do not follow who mention you in conversations started by accounts that you block.

                  Blocked accounts cannot: Send Direct Messages to you

                  Tweets from blocked accounts will not appear in your timeline.

                  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday August 25 2019, @02:35PM (16 children)

                    That's new functionality then. At the time this case was instituted you could see every mention and reply from blocked people. I know this first hand because I saw multiple people get banned for continuing to @mention people who had blocked them. Twitter called it harassment at the time.

                    --
                    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @07:29PM (15 children)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @07:29PM (#885334)

                      Then maybe the next time you are throwing around "You need to learn what you're talking about before you go off like this," you should double check your facts. Hell, everyone should. Citations are much more convincing then a bare assertion anyway.

                      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday August 26 2019, @03:24PM (14 children)

                        It's not the first time I've been wrong and it won't be the last. Double checking everything I say every time I say it? That's not even a realistic option even strictly from a wasted time standpoint. Regardless, when the blocks Trump was butthurting folks with happened, the functionality was exactly like I said it was.

                        --
                        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday August 27 2019, @01:34PM (13 children)

                          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 27 2019, @01:34PM (#886064) Journal

                          Yeah, righto! Spewing shit without checking makes life so much easier...

                          --
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
                          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday August 27 2019, @11:47PM (12 children)

                            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Tuesday August 27 2019, @11:47PM (#886493) Homepage Journal

                            If I were a news anchor/editor/reporter that would be a valid burn. Expecting ordinary people to check that things they know to be true have not changed behind their back every time they speak is disingenuous absurdity.

                            --
                            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday August 28 2019, @12:18AM (11 children)

                              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 28 2019, @12:18AM (#886515) Journal

                              Careful when it comes to thinks you are basing your decisions in regards with S/N.
                              Sloppiness begets sloppiness, even when the original sloppiness has manifested in other areas.

                              --
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
                              • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 28 2019, @12:42AM (10 children)

                                by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday August 28 2019, @12:42AM (#886539) Homepage Journal

                                SN isn't an issue. I don't expect to start forgetting the site rules or important functionality for a decade or two yet. When I eventually do, I have plenty of folks to crowdsource corrections from.

                                --
                                My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                                • (Score: 3, Touché) by c0lo on Wednesday August 28 2019, @12:50AM (9 children)

                                  by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 28 2019, @12:50AM (#886549) Journal

                                  I don't expect to start forgetting the site rules or important functionality for a decade or two yet.

                                  Some lowish-number-of weeks ago... that self-imposed ban following an abuse of modding? I might have heard it wrong then, it never happened to you. Right?

                                  --
                                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
                                  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 28 2019, @02:02AM (8 children)

                                    by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday August 28 2019, @02:02AM (#886589) Homepage Journal

                                    Who said I forgot anything? That was straight up bad moderating or it wouldn't have deserved a ban. We never ban for iffy cases.

                                    --
                                    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                                    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday August 28 2019, @02:20AM (7 children)

                                      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 28 2019, @02:20AM (#886597) Journal

                                      But you forgot the rules and made the mistake in the first place, before taking the punishment, isn't it?
                                      Expecting it or not, that's an example contradicting your

                                      I don't expect to start forgetting the site rules or important functionality for a decade or two yet.

                                      --
                                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
                                      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 28 2019, @02:26AM (6 children)

                                        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday August 28 2019, @02:26AM (#886599) Homepage Journal

                                        I didn't forget. I'm not making any cop-out excuses for that. I just straight up broke them and took the same lumps I'd dish out to anyone else.

                                        --
                                        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                                        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday August 28 2019, @02:34AM (5 children)

                                          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 28 2019, @02:34AM (#886601) Journal

                                          Ok, so willful abuse of power it is, then (grin)

                                          --
                                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
                                          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 28 2019, @02:49AM (4 children)

                                            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday August 28 2019, @02:49AM (#886606) Homepage Journal

                                            Ordinary user power though not admin power. I'm more deliberate about adminy stuff precisely because of the abuse potential and discuss it with the other admins if there's any doubt.

                                            --
                                            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                                            • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday August 29 2019, @07:38AM (3 children)

                                              by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday August 29 2019, @07:38AM (#887202) Journal

                                              aristarchus, mod-banned by the The Mortiarity Brandsouertard, for painting him and his alt-right buddies with too broad a brush. It is Soylent History, not in dispute. TMB is a Nazi sympathizer, if not an actually white supremacist, which it is hard to be if you are Choctaw, or Samoan [wweek.com], or boat people from Vietnam, [wikipedia.org], or hapa-haole part Nipponese like Joey Gibson [www.nrc.nl], not even a white Proud Buoy.

                                              He was born in Camas, Washington, and is of Irish and Japanese descent.[34][35] Gibson is married to Haley Gibson.[36]

                                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joey_Gibson_(political_activist) [wikipedia.org]

                                              I am sure his Japanese parent is quite ashamed of his violations of the law.

                                              And Malfoy Draco is appalled: Mudbloods, you know.

                                              So why did you get the original aristarchus submission rejected, after it had been accepted? You are a hypocrite, my lower Busstard! You need to do more than wear the cone of shame for a short time. You need to fess up to you ideological bias, and inordinate influence on the Editors. I will continue to paint you with a brush that is suitably broad, you person ignorant of political theory!

                                              • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday August 29 2019, @10:28AM (2 children)

                                                by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday August 29 2019, @10:28AM (#887227) Homepage Journal

                                                Poor ari. Does it bother you that much that I'm able to make a convincing argument in an open IRC channel while you can't seem to manage? Is it that painful that I only had to point out your hardon for extremist progtard propaganda once for the entire world to see it for what it is?

                                                --
                                                My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                                                • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday August 29 2019, @08:04PM (1 child)

                                                  by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday August 29 2019, @08:04PM (#887473) Journal

                                                  A convincing argument for censorship? You are hoisting yourself on your own petard, Buzzy!

                                                  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday August 30 2019, @12:33PM

                                                    A convincing argument against promoting propaganda. You're perfectly free to publish the exact same nonsense in your journal on the exact same site and it will be linked in the Most Recent Journal Entries box on the front page. It takes some serious mental gymnastics to call that censorship.

                                                    --
                                                    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
  • (Score: 2) by Mykl on Saturday August 24 2019, @01:45AM

    by Mykl (1112) on Saturday August 24 2019, @01:45AM (#884486)

    I like how you declaim the hyper partisan nature of discussion. And then blame that problem on the left.

    Yeah, I thought that someone would pick me up on saying "left" as I was writing it.

    At no point did I claim that hyper-partisanism was the fault of either the left or the right. Read that again.

    What I did say is that shouting people down is problem with some groups. Fairly or unfairly, there are a lot more examples in the media of left-wing types at University using that particular tactic (which is why I used the example), but by no means is it unique to them.

    To clarify, this problem is not the left's fault, but some left groups are certainly enthusiastic fans of shouting down alternative viewpoints. They also seem to love to demonstrate Godwin's law a lot. Still, that's better than threatening violence, which seems to come more from the right-wing.