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posted by martyb on Friday August 23 2019, @06:17AM   Printer-friendly
from the tragedy-of-the-commons dept.

I was going to post this to a particular story, but thought this might generate more attention and discussion as a general submission.

Seriously, what is going on with all these troll mods? Just because you disagree with someone, thus earning a "disagree" mod, does not mean that person is a "troll." To steal a definition from Urban Dictionary:

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

Just because you disagree with someone, does not mean they are trying to do the above. Be faster on the "disagree" and slower on the "troll." Under such abuse, it is hard to have a good discussion and, in itself, is trollish behavior by "generally disrupt[ing] normal on-topic discussion." Other than people disciplining themselves, a concerted effort to police such abuses, or making moderation logs public on the bottom of a comment where the score is shown now, I'm unsure of what to do about. As it stands, it is getting increasingly ridiculous to read what discussion is here on any topic remotely controversial, and is expanding outside of even those. It is starting to drive me away from the site, and I'm somewhat confident it is doing the same for others. I'd be interested to see what others think about the depth of the problem, if they even believe it even exists at all, and what solutions you all have for it.

[Ed note. This story is published exactly as received. First off, it bears repeating that complaining about moderations in the comments often leads (rightly) to an off-topic moderation. That is a contributing factor to my decision to run this story. Secondly, moderation is something that I on occasion have found I've fat-fingered and given a different moderation than expected. Thirdly, in the grand scheme of things, a comment's moderation is — relatively speaking — small potatoes. It is NOT a measure of your IQ or value as a human being. or standing in the community. Just accept that stuff happens and that as likely as not, someone will be along to moderate it the other way. Which is a good opportunity to say: PLEASE USE YOUR MOD POINTS! Lastly, if you think a comment was moderated in error, then send the CID (Comment ID) link e.g. "(#876543)" in an email to admin (at) soylentnews (dot) org. Keep in mind however that we are all volunteers here and there most likely will be a delay between when you send out an email and when we can get around to it. --martyb]

[Updated: 20190823_111312 UTC See comment from JR who far more precisely and eloquently expressed the idea I was attempting to. I concur with his assessment. If I want people to upmod a comment of mine that I believe was unfairly downmodded, then I need to be willing to upmod other's mis-modded comments. For perspective, so far this month, anywhere from ~150-~350 mod points were used in any given day. It bears repeating: use your mod points!]


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by tangomargarine on Friday August 23 2019, @03:00PM (3 children)

    by tangomargarine (667) on Friday August 23 2019, @03:00PM (#884135)

    to be.

    Personally, any time I see a poster insulting the person they're replying to, calling them names, or questioning their intelligence, I tend to moderate them Flamebait.

    So maybe not everybody argues in good faith, but generally assuming they are instead of screaming at them promotes better discussion.

    I'm sure several of you will disagree with me on this

    --
    "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
    Starting Score:    1  point
    Moderation   +3  
       Insightful=3, Total=3
    Extra 'Insightful' Modifier   0  
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   5  
  • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Friday August 23 2019, @03:35PM (2 children)

    by hemocyanin (186) on Friday August 23 2019, @03:35PM (#884160) Journal

    I agree. When I see "you are a fucking moron" or "libtard" or "nazi" -- that adds nothing to a conversation and it deserves a troll/flamebait depending. Those are just insults and not even amusing ones, so a downmod is appropriate. I don't mind argument, argument is interesting. I'm not interested in fights -- fights are boring.

    • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Friday August 23 2019, @09:41PM (1 child)

      by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Friday August 23 2019, @09:41PM (#884370) Journal

      Yeah, I agree. I'll admit that I try to retain a cool head, but I do take the tone from posts I'm replying to. If the parent post is acting all self-righteous and insulting of people who disagree, but that person is objectively wrong about something critical to their point, I'm probably going call them out a bit in reply and be a bit self-righteous too.

      It's not the best argumentation strategy though. And occasionally I go overboard, in which case I will freely acknowledge and not be surprised if someone downmods me for "flamebait" or whatever. I appreciate those who do that (though it's likely only happened 2-3 times among all my posts here).

      I really don't like being nasty to people. But I also find that sometimes people win arguments simply by rhetoric, and some people here are much more likely to mod up stuff they agree with and which makes sense to them, even if it's logically or factually wrong. If there's one thing we can learn from our President, it's that bluster is sometimes critical to convincing other people -- so in addition to facts, I sometimes give in and adopt a tone responding to a post that already has a tone which isn't productive.

      I don't know. It's difficult. I then try to take a deep breath and remember it's about putting the facts out there, and not "winning" an argument.

      • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday August 23 2019, @11:44PM

        by aristarchus (2645) on Friday August 23 2019, @11:44PM (#884412) Journal

        I then try to take a deep breath and remember it's about putting the facts out there, and not "winning" an argument.

        Found your problem! Not unusual, for a Thomist!

        If you get what you are putting out there accepted as "Facts", you have already won the argument. In a Post-modernist world, reality is a construction, and reflects what Marx called "relations of production", or political power.