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Billionaire industrialist David H. Koch, who with his older brother Charles was both celebrated and demonized for transforming American politics by pouring their riches into conservative causes, died Friday at 79.
The cause of death was not disclosed, but Koch Industries said Koch, who lived in New York City, had contended for years with various illnesses, including prostate cancer.
https://www.twincities.com/2019/08/23/ap-source-billionaire-david-koch-has-died-at-age-79/
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/us/david-koch-dead.html
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/david-koch-died-conservative-donor-and-philanthropist-dead-age-79-2019-08-23/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/08/23/david-koch-dies-billionaire-leader-koch-industries-79/2094016001/
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Arik on Saturday August 24 2019, @04:07AM (32 children)
Maybe that's not all he did but that's what I remember him for.
Why are all you assholes shitting on his grave?
Shame on you.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by EJ on Saturday August 24 2019, @04:20AM (3 children)
Liberals are not rational people.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday August 24 2019, @04:22AM (2 children)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by EJ on Saturday August 24 2019, @04:28AM (1 child)
I'm sure that one good police officer thinks the same way you do.
(Score: 1) by Arik on Saturday August 24 2019, @04:29AM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 24 2019, @05:38AM (9 children)
"Why are all you assholes shitting on his grave?"
He was one bad hombre!
Citizens united, privatized public schooling and fracking just off the top of my head. In case you need me to elaborate this translates to, fuck speech, meritocracy and ground water.
"He spent a lot of money he could have spent on making himself richer, to encourage political engagement among marginalized communities."
Political investment has the *best* return on investment compared to other things you can do with your money when you are filthy rich, look it up.
That money WAS spent on making himself richer!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Arik on Saturday August 24 2019, @05:43AM
Nonetheless, I thank you for explicating it.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by khallow on Saturday August 24 2019, @11:09AM (7 children)
So... protection of the First Amendment, getting grotesquely incompetent governments out of schooling, and boosting the US economy, while simultaneously reducing its carbon footprint due to increased natural gas production. Assuming we can blame him for those things in the first place.
Looks like you got those backwards.
I have. I also have yet to find anything more substantial than what you wrote above. Keep in mind some of these "political investments" would decrease substantially barrier to entry for competitors to the Kochs and actually have negative return on investment.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 24 2019, @02:42PM (1 child)
Citizens United has nothing to do with the first amendment. The first amendment only applies to interactions between people and the government. Corporations are not people. They are comprised of people that never gave up their rights to give money or engage in free speech.
What's more giving money isn't speech. At this point it is nearly improved to be convicted of bribery because of the judges that the Koch. Brothers had appointed.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday August 24 2019, @11:13PM
It's always interesting how dishonest people can get - here, deciding what free speech isn't really free speech. The obvious rebuttal here is that if you speak on behalf of a soulless corporation, you are engaging in free speech. Despite your claims to the contrary, it remains that the campaign finance law in question did violate the First Amendment rights of the people who comprise the corporation.
Giving money for speech in an election. Not only is it a matter of free speech, it's a matter of the most vital exercise of free speech.
But perhaps I'm thinking about this wrong? Perhaps, your speech isn't really free speech, but rather a noisy sucking of air, and the First Amendment doesn't really apply to those who disagree with me?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 24 2019, @04:02PM (2 children)
"So... protection of the First Amendment, getting grotesquely incompetent governments out of schooling, and boosting the US economy"
Since you aren't the only person with such short sighted beliefs, allow me to elaborate some more.
First Amendment applying to corporations has all sorts of problems for all sorts of reasons, and would take up a whole textbook which I'm sure exists, but one implication is a foreign government (say the Russians) can meddle in US elections, in ways you can't imagine, ... legally. It's already happening, but I'm talking about something far more sinister than direct contributions into crony politicians pockets. I'm talking a corporate shell game for propaganda.
The incompetent government trope is getting old. Move to Somalia if you want to live in a place with effectively no government. Ironic how people pushing this trope want more government when it comes to enforcing contracts and protecting their wealth from the disgruntled masses.
Boosting the US economy by poisoning the wells is insane. The economic boost is temporary, the poisoned wells are long term. You can't live without water, it's projected to be a scarce resource. In many parts of the world it already is. Nestle is investing a fortune in attempts to buy up this resource. You're saying lets just destroy it to boost the economy, a fictitious construct which only benefits a tiny minority.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday August 24 2019, @06:55PM
But why think long term survival when you can have short-term "I got MINE!"
THAT is the way the rich and corporate/political leaders in America think.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday August 25 2019, @01:36AM
Which really doesn't matter much. There's a lot of woo attributed to "meddling", but it's really good for relieving someone of their money.
Apathy solves that non problem.
Air is a scarce resource too. But we're not running out of it either.
Buy from who?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 24 2019, @04:22PM (1 child)
Delusional
Or brainwashed, but I guess they're sort of the same thing. It does sadden me that part of the problem these days is that reasonably sane people fall for evil power grubbing propaganda.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday August 26 2019, @04:55AM
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 24 2019, @09:39AM (16 children)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/A_Maze_of_Money.png [wikimedia.org]
Koch brothers did this shit. Fuck them with a broom stick.
http://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-hate-koch-brothers-part-1/ [freakonomics.com]
Reading that, you realize the guy is either completely fucking clueless or lying through his teeth. He says one thing and then does the fucking opposite.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/inside-the-koch-brothers-toxic-empire-164403/ [rollingstone.com]
The devil himself would lie less convincingly than Koch brothers. Fuck, they even swindled out their brothers from the business. Tells you something about their disloyalty. It's all about money and more more more.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Saturday August 24 2019, @11:20AM (14 children)
So what? The only real problem illustrated there is that these industries are under one company rather than spread among many lesser companies. Otherwise you're just comparing properties proportional to the size of the company (that is, "extrinsic properties") without considering the size of the company. Nor are we considering the harm of the pollution. So what if a bigger company pollutes more than a smaller company? That tells you little about whether the pollution is inordinately harmful or not, or even whether it's worse or better given the productive output of the companies in question.
Million tons of valuable petrochemicals? Even the environmentalists have to mention the benefits every now and then.
They still have to follow regulations too.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday August 24 2019, @07:10PM (13 children)
If you found out that a Koch industry had polluted the ground, water and air on your property and you now had untreatable cancer because of it, would out just say "Meh...they got theirs. Good for them!" Because THAT is what is happening: people polluting the planet we live on just in order to make another dollar, and FUCK YOU, I GOT MINE!
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 24 2019, @10:57PM
We've been telling this to khallow for literal years. Not sure if anything can penetrate his ideology.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday August 24 2019, @11:16PM (11 children)
Actually, no that isn't not what happened. Hypothetical, remember? And I can always sue them for that along with the rest of the people on my side of the class action lawsuit.
Polluting how much? There's this peculiar lack of details.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday August 24 2019, @11:47PM (10 children)
go "lalala I can't hear anything"
https://theintercept.com/2015/08/11/dupont-chemistry-deception/ [theintercept.com]
DuPont scientists had closely studied the chemical for decades and through their own research knew about some of the dangers it posed. Yet rather than inform workers, people living near the plant, the general public, or government agencies responsible for regulating chemicals, DuPont repeatedly kept its knowledge secret.
Another revelation about C8 makes all of this more disturbing and gives the upcoming trials, the first of which will be held this fall in Columbus, Ohio, global significance: This deadly chemical that DuPont continued to use well after it knew it was linked to health problems is now practically everywhere. Emphasis is mine.
That IS WHAT IS HAPPENING... NOT hypothetical.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday August 25 2019, @01:48AM (6 children)
The catch is in what dose? Remember dose makes the poison. There are a lot of toxins that are practically everywhere. But they aren't everywhere in concentrations that can kill.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Sunday August 25 2019, @01:58AM (5 children)
The point is, the company KNEW they were poisoning the environment and even after people's cattle died from drinking it in the water and eating it in their food, and after people turned up with cancer CAUSED by the C8, they covered it up and kept doing it because of the Dollars they were making.
They DID kill people, knew they were doing it and covered it up...ALL to continue making money.
And you have no problem with this???
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday August 25 2019, @03:14AM (4 children)
I'll note in that case, the cattle deaths (see here [nytimes.com] for a description) look suspiciously like antifreeze poisoning right up to the dyes showing up in the tissue of the cows (which incidentally may not be DuPont caused). And if that was the way C8 poisoned animals, it would never have survived so many decades without toxicity testing.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Sunday August 25 2019, @10:38AM (3 children)
Unbelievable.
DuPont and 3M's OWN testing showed it was cancerous and was causing deformaties and death, and that they HID this from the EPA. THEIR OWN TESTING!
AND STILL they dumped it: in the water and land and air.
Read the emails.
OR, close your eyes.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday August 25 2019, @11:53AM (2 children)
In what dosage?
(Score: 3, Touché) by Gaaark on Sunday August 25 2019, @12:50PM (1 child)
Drink a glass of it and tell me what dose you got and how you feel!
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0, Redundant) by khallow on Sunday August 25 2019, @10:06PM
Are you thereby claiming that everyone is effectively exposed to a glass of C8?
(Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Sunday August 25 2019, @09:20PM (2 children)
No luck finding a Koch example? (They do exist, although their record remains better than most out of necessity, they are fully aware folks are out to get them and behave accordingly.)
В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Sunday August 25 2019, @10:06PM (1 child)
Just one example I knew about: didn't think about who caused it.
Do you have any?
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Sunday August 25 2019, @10:36PM
Off the top of my head? Maybe the Green Bay coal pile dust a few years back is the only thing that comes to mind. Probably more with some searching since there are dozens of Koch companies to chose from.
В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
(Score: 2) by epitaxial on Saturday August 24 2019, @02:40PM
So they used the law to their advantage?
(Score: 3, Funny) by darkfeline on Saturday August 24 2019, @09:56AM
Thanks, I'm going to use this going forward.
"Bribery is such an ugly word. I prefer to call it encouraging political engagement among marginalized communities."
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