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Billionaire industrialist David H. Koch, who with his older brother Charles was both celebrated and demonized for transforming American politics by pouring their riches into conservative causes, died Friday at 79.
The cause of death was not disclosed, but Koch Industries said Koch, who lived in New York City, had contended for years with various illnesses, including prostate cancer.
https://www.twincities.com/2019/08/23/ap-source-billionaire-david-koch-has-died-at-age-79/
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/us/david-koch-dead.html
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/david-koch-died-conservative-donor-and-philanthropist-dead-age-79-2019-08-23/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/08/23/david-koch-dies-billionaire-leader-koch-industries-79/2094016001/
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 24 2019, @09:39AM (16 children)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/A_Maze_of_Money.png [wikimedia.org]
Koch brothers did this shit. Fuck them with a broom stick.
http://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-hate-koch-brothers-part-1/ [freakonomics.com]
Reading that, you realize the guy is either completely fucking clueless or lying through his teeth. He says one thing and then does the fucking opposite.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/inside-the-koch-brothers-toxic-empire-164403/ [rollingstone.com]
The devil himself would lie less convincingly than Koch brothers. Fuck, they even swindled out their brothers from the business. Tells you something about their disloyalty. It's all about money and more more more.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Saturday August 24 2019, @11:20AM (14 children)
So what? The only real problem illustrated there is that these industries are under one company rather than spread among many lesser companies. Otherwise you're just comparing properties proportional to the size of the company (that is, "extrinsic properties") without considering the size of the company. Nor are we considering the harm of the pollution. So what if a bigger company pollutes more than a smaller company? That tells you little about whether the pollution is inordinately harmful or not, or even whether it's worse or better given the productive output of the companies in question.
Million tons of valuable petrochemicals? Even the environmentalists have to mention the benefits every now and then.
They still have to follow regulations too.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday August 24 2019, @07:10PM (13 children)
If you found out that a Koch industry had polluted the ground, water and air on your property and you now had untreatable cancer because of it, would out just say "Meh...they got theirs. Good for them!" Because THAT is what is happening: people polluting the planet we live on just in order to make another dollar, and FUCK YOU, I GOT MINE!
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 24 2019, @10:57PM
We've been telling this to khallow for literal years. Not sure if anything can penetrate his ideology.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday August 24 2019, @11:16PM (11 children)
Actually, no that isn't not what happened. Hypothetical, remember? And I can always sue them for that along with the rest of the people on my side of the class action lawsuit.
Polluting how much? There's this peculiar lack of details.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday August 24 2019, @11:47PM (10 children)
go "lalala I can't hear anything"
https://theintercept.com/2015/08/11/dupont-chemistry-deception/ [theintercept.com]
DuPont scientists had closely studied the chemical for decades and through their own research knew about some of the dangers it posed. Yet rather than inform workers, people living near the plant, the general public, or government agencies responsible for regulating chemicals, DuPont repeatedly kept its knowledge secret.
Another revelation about C8 makes all of this more disturbing and gives the upcoming trials, the first of which will be held this fall in Columbus, Ohio, global significance: This deadly chemical that DuPont continued to use well after it knew it was linked to health problems is now practically everywhere. Emphasis is mine.
That IS WHAT IS HAPPENING... NOT hypothetical.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday August 25 2019, @01:48AM (6 children)
The catch is in what dose? Remember dose makes the poison. There are a lot of toxins that are practically everywhere. But they aren't everywhere in concentrations that can kill.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Sunday August 25 2019, @01:58AM (5 children)
The point is, the company KNEW they were poisoning the environment and even after people's cattle died from drinking it in the water and eating it in their food, and after people turned up with cancer CAUSED by the C8, they covered it up and kept doing it because of the Dollars they were making.
They DID kill people, knew they were doing it and covered it up...ALL to continue making money.
And you have no problem with this???
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday August 25 2019, @03:14AM (4 children)
I'll note in that case, the cattle deaths (see here [nytimes.com] for a description) look suspiciously like antifreeze poisoning right up to the dyes showing up in the tissue of the cows (which incidentally may not be DuPont caused). And if that was the way C8 poisoned animals, it would never have survived so many decades without toxicity testing.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Sunday August 25 2019, @10:38AM (3 children)
Unbelievable.
DuPont and 3M's OWN testing showed it was cancerous and was causing deformaties and death, and that they HID this from the EPA. THEIR OWN TESTING!
AND STILL they dumped it: in the water and land and air.
Read the emails.
OR, close your eyes.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday August 25 2019, @11:53AM (2 children)
In what dosage?
(Score: 3, Touché) by Gaaark on Sunday August 25 2019, @12:50PM (1 child)
Drink a glass of it and tell me what dose you got and how you feel!
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0, Redundant) by khallow on Sunday August 25 2019, @10:06PM
Are you thereby claiming that everyone is effectively exposed to a glass of C8?
(Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Sunday August 25 2019, @09:20PM (2 children)
No luck finding a Koch example? (They do exist, although their record remains better than most out of necessity, they are fully aware folks are out to get them and behave accordingly.)
В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Sunday August 25 2019, @10:06PM (1 child)
Just one example I knew about: didn't think about who caused it.
Do you have any?
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Sunday August 25 2019, @10:36PM
Off the top of my head? Maybe the Green Bay coal pile dust a few years back is the only thing that comes to mind. Probably more with some searching since there are dozens of Koch companies to chose from.
В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
(Score: 2) by epitaxial on Saturday August 24 2019, @02:40PM
So they used the law to their advantage?