Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by martyb on Monday August 26 2019, @11:19PM   Printer-friendly
from the can-you-say-land-speculation? dept.

Jakarta Is Crowded And Sinking, So Indonesia Is Moving Its Capital To Borneo

Indonesian President Joko Widodo says his country will create a new capital city on the island of Borneo, revealing new details about his plan to move the central government out of Jakarta. The capital's current location faces a number of problems, including the fact that it's sinking.

Widodo's announcement Monday comes months after he said he wanted to move the capital, seeking a place that can offer a break from Jakarta's environmental challenges as well as its relentlessly gridlocked traffic.

While rising seawater levels from climate change are a widespread concern for island and coastal areas worldwide, experts say Jakarta has played a central role in its own predicament. "Jakarta's problems are largely man-made," NPR's Merrit Kennedy reported earlier this year. "The area's large population has extracted so much groundwater that it has impacted the ground levels, and many surface water resources are polluted."

Jakarta has a population of around 10 million, with 20 million more in the greater metropolitan area.

Also at NYT and CNN.


Original Submission

 
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday August 26 2019, @11:38PM (12 children)

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday August 26 2019, @11:38PM (#885857)

    It cost $30B to rebuild Miami after hurricane Andrew - almost 30 years ago now.

    Question is: will all 260+ million Indonesians fit on Borneo, and still have space left over for the palm oil plantations and Orangutan shelter?

    Trivia from the past: The sultan of Brunei (on Borneo) was the richest man in the world not too long ago. He got it the usual way: oil.

    --
    🌻🌻 [google.com]
    Starting Score:    1  point
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   2  
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 27 2019, @12:08AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 27 2019, @12:08AM (#885863)

    I'm pretty sure their labor is cheaper and so are the building codes. You'll see empty coffee cans used for rebar.

    • (Score: 2) by PocketSizeSUn on Wednesday August 28 2019, @04:40PM

      by PocketSizeSUn (5340) on Wednesday August 28 2019, @04:40PM (#886873)

      Basic construction (concrete and steel) runs about 1/10th to cost due to cheaper labor and material. Wood is generally expensive (similar in pricing to usa costing), although the wood types are generally prized here (teak and ironwood).

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 27 2019, @08:44AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 27 2019, @08:44AM (#885998)

    It cost $30B to rebuild Miami

    That's because it will cost hell of a lot more than $33B. Probably more than $100B but $70+B will be recouped through selling of clearcut virgin forest. Why slash and burn when you can sell?

    Coincidentally, Amazon is burning but in Bolivia the "environmentally friendly native-led government" just enacted a law that if you burn the forest, you get to claim the land.

    http://www.bad-ag.info/bolivia-legalises-and-expands-savage-deforestation-for-china-and-russia-beef-deals/ [bad-ag.info]

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday August 27 2019, @10:55AM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday August 27 2019, @10:55AM (#886025)

      in Bolivia the "environmentally friendly native-led government" just enacted a law that if you burn the forest, you get to claim the land.

      That's not far-off from Florida tax law: Agricultural exemption granted to land which has been "put into productive use" which, until just last year, exclusively meant clearing out the native vegetation and wildlife. Ag exemption gets the owner a 90% reduction in property taxes.

      20 years ago, I argued with the tax collector that harvest of native saw palmetto berries (which does not require total habitat destruction, but is still more invasive than not harvesting the berries) should be considered agricultural use of the land. He quoted current law to me at the time which translated to: NO. Apparently, others took up the argument in the capital and 20 years later land owners can now claim ag exemption for saw palmetto berry harvesting. The pace of progress.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
  • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday August 27 2019, @10:14AM (1 child)

    by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Tuesday August 27 2019, @10:14AM (#886011) Homepage
    Lots of pork barrels in that cost though, and pork's haraam in Indonesia.
    --
    Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
    • (Score: 2) by PocketSizeSUn on Wednesday August 28 2019, @04:45PM

      by PocketSizeSUn (5340) on Wednesday August 28 2019, @04:45PM (#886876)

      Pork is Haram Only to the Muslims in Indonesia. It's is pretty easily available anywhere in the greater Jakarta region as well as Bali (where Pork is raised by the Hindu majority) and the Island of Flores which is predominantly Christian. Also there are lots of wild pigs running around in the forests which are frequently not considered Haram by the locals :P.

  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday August 27 2019, @03:40PM (5 children)

    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 27 2019, @03:40PM (#886138) Journal

    It cost $30B to rebuild Miami after hurricane Andrew

    Doesn't mean anything since US real estate in Miami is vastly overpriced and US labor is pricey. Then there's the natural stupendous inflated costs of doing anything with US federal money. You're probably looking at an order of magnitude (which is the multiplier I use for most US government activity), taking all those effects in hand trying to move a national capitol into the the middle of an existing city. I think the better analogy is more like moving Washington, DC to an empty place in central/south Florida for $300 billion. It's still cheap, but at least the real price will be within an order of magnitude of it.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday August 27 2019, @04:55PM (4 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday August 27 2019, @04:55PM (#886194)

      Interestingly: the cost of real estate has little to nothing to do with the cost of storm damage repair, and my experience of home construction/repair labor in Dade county was that it was damn reasonable as compared with Houston or North Florida, often less than 50% of the cost in those alternate markets. Materials costs are pretty flat across the US, with Home Despot setting the rates.

      Also: The $30B post-Andrew rebuilding was not financed by the federal government, it was private insurance - said insurers who cried mommy and made the federal government step in and take over flood and hurricane hazard insurance afterwards.

      As for bad analogies: Washington DC to Jakarta? Did you look in the wrong end of the telescope? US GDP 19T, Indonesia 1T. US Federal Revenue $3.3T, Indonesia $110B - so, just going by the size of the federal government budgets alone, if they can move Jakarta for $30B, a similar move of DC should be closer to $1T, assuming similar building codes, infrastructure buildout, etc.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday August 27 2019, @06:53PM (3 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 27 2019, @06:53PM (#886307) Journal

        Interestingly: the cost of real estate has little to nothing to do with the cost of storm damage repair

        I would characterize that as "wrongly" not "interestingly". One isn't going to sell cheap used cars on real estate that costs $100k per acre. The cost is the ante for the value of what's put on the property.

        home construction/repair labor

        It isn't labor that gets washed out with the storm surge.

        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday August 27 2019, @07:28PM (2 children)

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday August 27 2019, @07:28PM (#886318)

          I would characterize that as "wrongly" not "interestingly". One isn't going to sell cheap used cars on real estate that costs $100k per acre. The cost is the ante for the value of what's put on the property.

          Maybe from the perspective of Ted Kaczynski's cabin, you could be correct. 2003 Miami - water heater replacement, cost of water heater +$75 to the licensed plumber who put it in. 2005 Houston - water heater replacement, cost of water heater +$200 to the licensed plumber who not only put in that water heater but also did several other jobs on the property at the same time. Similar cost differences for siding repair, painting, window replacement, etc. Getting a hurricane damaged home fixed up in Miami was significantly cheaper per square foot than the equivalent repair work in Houston - even though the home in Miami sold for twice as much per square foot. Stick that in your economic theory and smoke it. I attribute it to the Hialeah community which provided competitive labor throughout Dade county, whereas Houston and North Florida are populated by proud anglo tradesmen who won't get out of bed for less than $500 per day.

          --
          🌻🌻 [google.com]
          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday August 27 2019, @07:50PM (1 child)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 27 2019, @07:50PM (#886331) Journal

            2003 Miami - water heater replacement, cost of water heater +$75 to the licensed plumber who put it in. 2005 Houston - water heater replacement, cost of water heater +$200 to the licensed plumber who not only put in that water heater but also did several other jobs on the property at the same time.

            So a plumber who did less work cost less than a plumber who did more work?

            Getting a hurricane damaged home fixed up in Miami was significantly cheaper per square foot than the equivalent repair work in Houston

            What is "equivalent repair work"?

            • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday August 27 2019, @08:39PM

              by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday August 27 2019, @08:39PM (#886374)

              So a plumber who did less work cost less than a plumber who did more work?

              No, read carefully: "water heater replacement, cost of water heater +$200" other work was billed separately and amounted to a total of more than $500 for the trip.

              What is "equivalent repair work"?

              Removal of old water heater, install of new one - pretty damn equivalent. Our houses have always been in the 40-60 year old range, so we've got lots of similar jobs. In Miami when I'd call in outside labor it was (almost) always worthwhile to pay the professional to do the job, in Houston and North Florida I'd frequently send them away because they were just lazy greedy bastards. Upgrade 40' run of wiring from 12 gauge to 10 gauge, $150 upcharge on the job (increased bid over the 12 gauge price) - 50' box of 10 gauge wire selling for $50 at the time - go screw yourselves.

              --
              🌻🌻 [google.com]