Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by janrinok on Friday August 30 2019, @06:33PM   Printer-friendly
from the right-to-speak-but-not-to-be-heard dept.

[Seconding-Ed note: This story is likely to be contentious. In the interests of helping set the tone, I would like to start off by quoting H.L. Mencken:

The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.

Further, this quote which has appeared in various phrasings and attributions:

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

To mind's eye, I must be willing to accept against my own words and actions any that I would wish to see imposed upon another. --martyb]

YouTube Restores Far-Right Channels After Appeal

Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:

The channels of two prominent far-right YouTubers have been re-instated after the video-sharing site said it made a mistake in removing them. Initially, YouTube gave no reason for changing its decision and just said it had made a "wrong call". Later, it said that while many people found the channels "deeply offensive", they had not broken its rules. The decision came days after YouTube's chief executive said YouTube had to be open to hosting "controversial" ideas.

YouTube removed several channels and accounts this week, claiming they had broken its hate speech policies. Among them was a channel run by white nationalist Martin Sellner and an anonymous British YouTuber known as The Iconoclast. Mr Sellner was reportedly in contact with the man who allegedly carried out the Christchurch mosque shootings in March this year that killed 51 people. Austrian police are investigating his links to the attack. He denies any involvement in the shooting.

Both men protested about the closure of their YouTube channels on social media. They shared information sent to them from YouTube, which said they had "repeatedly" broken its guidelines. On Thursday, YouTube reversed its decision and reinstated the two channels. Several other far-right channels that YouTube banned this week remain unavailable.

An explanation for the change of heart came on Friday. Farshad Shadloo, YouTube's global product policy communications lead, said that after a "thorough review" it had decided that the channels had not broken its rules. "We realise that many may find the viewpoints expressed in these channels deeply offensive," he said. Mr Shadloo added that YouTube had recently updated the way it handled "hateful content".

Earlier this week YouTube boss Susan Wojcicki wrote in a letter to video-makers that YouTube must remain an "open platform". She said the desire to welcome all kinds of views had to be balanced against a "responsibility to protect the community".

"A commitment to openness is not easy. It sometimes means leaving up content that is outside the mainstream, controversial or even offensive," she said. "Hearing a broad range of perspectives ultimately makes us a stronger and more informed society," she claimed.

'I am Talking Directly to You': US Attorney Delivers Powerful Rebuke to White Nationalists

ABC News:

The U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Ohio on Thursday announced new federal charges against a self-avowed white nationalist accused of threatening to commit an attack on a local Jewish community center. James Reardon, who attended the 2017 Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, was arrested last week after authorities said he posted the threat on Instagram. U.S. Attorney Justin Herdman said Reardon has now been charged with one count of making threats as authorities continue their investigation into Reardon and whether he my have any accomplices.

Of course, not so much that, but what Herdman said after that.

"I am talking directly to you," Herdman said at a news conference announcing the charges. "The Constitution protects your right to speak, your right to think, and your right to believe. If you want to waste the blessings of liberty by going down a path of hatred and failed ideologies, that is your choice."

Herdman continued, evoking the sacrifices made by U.S. service members in World War II against Nazism, as well as those who marched for civil rights throughout U.S. history.

"Thousands and thousands of young Americans already voted with their lives to ensure that this same message of intolerance, death, and destruction would not prevail - you can count their ballots by visiting any American cemetery in North Africa, Italy, France, or Belgium and tallying the white headstones," Herdman said. "You can also recite the many names of civil rights advocates who bled and died in opposing supporters of those same ideologies of hatred. Their voices may be distant, but they can still be heard."

"The Constitution may give you a voice, but it doesn't guarantee you a receptive audience," Herdman added.


Original Submission #1Original Submission #2

 
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday August 30 2019, @11:20PM (12 children)

    by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday August 30 2019, @11:20PM (#887962) Journal

    Exactly. That is the issue that nobody on the censorship crusade wants to address or even acknowledge. The power and responsibility is on the followers to stop...

    --
    La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday August 31 2019, @01:07AM (11 children)

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday August 31 2019, @01:07AM (#888006) Journal

    Why would they?

    Fusta, the problem with this "it's their responsibility!" kick you're on is that it's true but trivially so. You are assuming everyone is a reasonably well-informed, rational actor. Most people are not, and the kind of moron who buys into things like white supremacism sure as hell isn't and never will be. It's the same reason basically every shiny economic theory crashes and burns when tried in meatspace: in theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.

    Refusing to acknowledge this is only going to make things harder for you. And while you refuse to, you become a useful pawn for those who understand this and are playing it to the hilt, because it paralyzes you and stops you from making any real contribution to counteracting the rising tide of evil. You don't get internet cool points for being borderline-autistic about this stuff, don't you get it?

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday August 31 2019, @01:52AM (2 children)

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Saturday August 31 2019, @01:52AM (#888038) Journal

      Most people are not, and the kind of moron who buys into things like white supremacism sure as hell isn't and never will be.

      None of that matters. They are responsible for their choices if they want to claim to be human. I don't believe in human determinism. The evil is in the choice to follow the fascists. The failure to acknowledge this only leaves us in stagnation where only might can make right, and an eternal game of whack-a-mole. To kill off the fascist, you have to destroy its will to live.

      --
      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
      • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday August 31 2019, @02:02AM (1 child)

        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday August 31 2019, @02:02AM (#888043) Journal

        I don't believe in determinism either. What I do believe in is reality, and reality has shown me that people are more likely to make the evil choice when they're surrounded by evil, when that evil speaks to them about things they're suffering, and when that evil tells them a solution. That will skew peoples' decision-making.

        Actually I'm not sure we're disagreeing so much as speaking past one another here. I do wish you'd acknowledge the above, though :/ Humans aren't rational actors.

        --
        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: 2) by termigator on Saturday August 31 2019, @10:24PM

          by termigator (4271) on Saturday August 31 2019, @10:24PM (#888328)

          Humans are rationalizing actors.

    • (Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 31 2019, @04:06AM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 31 2019, @04:06AM (#888093)

      wow, you are a bit of an Azuma Supremecist aren't you.

      You are assuming everyone is a reasonably well-informed, rational actor. Most people are not (except for Me and my kind)
      ...the kind of moron ... you become a useful pawn ... it paralyzes you ... don't you get it ...

      • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday August 31 2019, @11:23PM (2 children)

        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday August 31 2019, @11:23PM (#888339) Journal

        Are you that far gone that you're going to equate one person dumping on another's personality flaws with a racial supremacy movement? Goddamn, are you stupid, and so is whatever moron that modded you up. I speak for myself, not "Me and my kind." There is only one of me, and you'd better thank God for your own sake that's the case.

        --
        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 01 2019, @01:46AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 01 2019, @01:46AM (#888368)

          Actually I was referring to your patronizing attitude towards all those people who "Most people are not...reasonably well-informed, rational actors."
          It's no better, and possibly worse, than the traditional colonial attitude of "somebody has to look after the poor darkies"

          • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday September 01 2019, @02:35AM

            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday September 01 2019, @02:35AM (#888376) Journal

            False equivalence. People cannot choose their ethnicity or race. They CAN choose, within the limits of their individual capacities, to be more or less well-informed, rational, and self-aware.

            ...you, very obviously, have chosen not to :) Next!

            --
            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Monday September 02 2019, @07:33AM

        by aristarchus (2645) on Monday September 02 2019, @07:33AM (#888760) Journal

        wow, you are a bit of an Azuma Supremecist aren't you.

        As am I, and as are all on SoylentNews that are not cowardly white identifying scaredy poltroons. We are all Hazuki supremacists! All hail the queen, and smite the incel wanna-be boys of uncertain provenance!!!

        She is us, and we are her, and if you are not, you have no place on SoylentNews, except as an object of ridicule and derision. Can you handle?

    • (Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Saturday August 31 2019, @11:02AM

      by jmichaelhudsondotnet (8122) on Saturday August 31 2019, @11:02AM (#888175) Journal

      Read through this whole thing to get here, and you hit this nail on the head.

      We have to argue with these people, and all of our perceived enemies, not draw lines in the sand and play dodgeball in forum comments like is evident in these forum comments.

      (though much worse usually in other places, the obscurity of this place gives it some civilization for now)

      I starting, restarting, a project I am calling for the moment globaldebate.net. I want to find people to argue with me about things.

      There is debate.org of course, but that is integrated with google and a company called 'juggle' who doesn't use https on their homepage, so like usual the main concept is camped out by surveillanceware.

      I find with this whole 'can youtube be a common carrier for racism', fraught with peril and opportunity for insight into what's really going on. These platforms own decades-long ruthless grab for monopolistic power made them into essential landmarks of the media landscape, without which there might actually be panic. But they don't want any responsibilty, or they want to just be corporate god with opaque councils of rich people with various allegiances pulling strings in ways that appear chaotic to everyone on the outside. They don't want to be taxed, they don't want to go on record as to why they do things, they don't want to be accountable, at all, while maximizing their power. It happens with every monopoly/common carrier technology at some point, historically this is totally expected and the people like zuckerborg will one day read about the robber barons in his solitary confinement where he hides from other inmates who learned their wives divorced them because he at some point leaked their private messages in order to get a golf club membership in maiui.

      The answer, always, to people we don't like, is not to send a complaint to f*cking platform administrators, it is to *actually engage the people with debate*. However this is immensely complicated in my experience by the fact that half of the white supremicist movement is cops and various schills who have everything to gain from turning potential bernie bros into people with swastika tattoos. Why for instance is Robert Mercer funding Tommy Tomlinson? Why is Steve Bannon so popular with Israelis?

      I once tried to argue with somebody who was trying to actually convince me white people have % brain sizes that are bigger and various phrenology, and I called him an idiot and he just kept coming with more of it. He wasn't real, he was just there to say that like a non stop hose. This is one of reasons why I believe discord and steemit and peace, abundance, liberty(PAL) is just cops, and that is a government operation to spray a hose of this stuff in order to entrap people, gather information, and who knows what.

      So those of us like myself, who have an infinite desire to argue with irrational racists, monoculturalists and cultish fanatics of all stripes, is that I can never actually get to the real ones or encounter a person who is trapped in one of those cultures where it starts to seem totally cool and ok to think other human beings are some sort of sub-human who should have fewer rights.

      A whole bunch of bad guys win off of this tiki torch nazi crap, russians, israelis, bannon's movement, the nra, it hurts the peace movement, it hurts black people, it empowers the police to militarize more, so it is very true that if you want to be or pretend to be a reactionary brain pan theorist, you can actually get rich doing it and probably legally beat people up.

      People got actually fired here in Germany last week because they could not agree over whether or not a video tape showing street nazis 'hunting' immigrants was real or not, so this stuff is actual, it's happening now. The authorities of the authorities are fighting over it.

      As for me, I see the ICE and Homeland Security program, as well as all of the COINTELPRO stuff(which has affected me horrificly), as well as the settler programs and attitudes in Israel, and Putin's policies in Russia, as being a nexus for the nationalism that works against international cooperation, in other words a real international movement of national socialism, *actual nazis*. Because these nationalistic powers are as always expansionist, any countries working together against that aggression is the first pillar of their resistance they must attack.

      So I don't just do this because it puts me in physical risk for going on record in public, I do it because these people really want a war and are gearing for war and a big one. They want no united nations, or a completely corrupt one. They want no EU, no NATO, the United States split, the UK in a hundred peaces, france and germany fighting.

      In that world, Russia will reabsorb the baltics and ukraine, and Israel will Absorb all of its neighbors, and the United States as we know it will be in ruins and all of the anti-capitalist anti-war protestors will be in camps or ditches.

      This the future they need to be held to face, not their ridiculous fantasy of some white shangri la. The jewish people have their jewish shangrila, how is that working out for them? Regular trips to the bomb shelter, and no current plans even exist for that to change. Impressive planning.

      We can do better, there is an alternative to this path, but how can I get through to these people? Especially while us Bernie Bros trying to foster a rational center are being pushed and mischaracterized by vast propaganda operations into these extreme irrational directions?

      Why, I was called an antisemite just the other day on this very website. Do I sound like a nazi? Someone out there really wants to make sure I am perceived as one, that's for sure. So the goal is to engage, but you see there are major obstacles put there by the forces of our own government and other governments, which make the efforts of someone like me *feel* futile. And also puts us at risk for targetted harassment and paramilitary action, from both sides.

      Here in germany, the politicians I would most support are on lists made by actual nazis of people they might want to harm. At the same time, due to my stance of boycotting israel because of their support for international right wing movements including Trump and their own apartheid and many other reasons, I may face legal action(no doubt forwarded by email directly to the police by actual israeli operatives reading this very comment) The 'save the refugees' while not addressing israeli expansionism and apartheid as the cause of the refugees is to me a doublethink that I simply cannot swallow, I'm surprised anyone can.

      Do you see? The center can barely, can not, idk, hold, but there are real forces out there attacking the center, pushing everyone to the extremes. And for some reason this is very real in my personal life. And for some reason, any discussion of it where it is only nazis and has nothing to do with israel and jewish people is just naive.

      And anyone who tries to talk about it like me, well, I might really get killed or go to prison for values that are moderate, evenhanded, consistent and in no way supporting racism or national socialism.

      These are the roots of the problem with 'nazis being popular on youtube.' All nazis don't wear swastikas, they come in every color, even jewish. No exceptions, if you do things the nazis would have done, you can and should be deservedly called a nazi. The first people killed in the holocaust were actually people like me, anarcho-socialists, anticapitalists, irreverant comedians and writers, who were standing up for the rights of everyone and striking at the roots of fascism and racism, capitalism. The jewish people of the time and to this day are remarkably silent on this period of the holocaust, it's there to see(not to see) in the wikipedia article.

      And ironically, almost exactly 100 years ago a disgruntled young racist veteran with a bad haircut was trying to express his viewpoints and was censored. Ten years later, having mastered a brand new media form, he took over Europe and led it into disasterous ruin.

      Everything we consider civilization is built upon the ideas and hard work of people who did not want to have to go through that again. Their work is all being torn down as we speak, by the hour.

      There you have it, the big picture. Let the cards fall where they may.

      thesesystemsarefailing.net

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 31 2019, @08:29PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 31 2019, @08:29PM (#888308)

      You are assuming everyone is a reasonably well-informed, rational actor.

      There's no need to assume that. Even if they aren't, they are still responsible for their own actions.

      • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday August 31 2019, @11:05PM

        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday August 31 2019, @11:05PM (#888334) Journal

        Indeed, but try telling *them* that...see the problem there? You can yell at the madman who's telling you the sky is orange and green all day that it's actually blue, but it's not going to change the madman's mind.

        --
        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...