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The City of Bonavista has taken a new approach to dealing with airbnb hosts who represent unfair competition for hotels and bread-and-breakfast ins because they don't pay business taxes. They cut your sewer and water lines.
Bonavista cuts off services for Airbnb operators with unpaid business tax bills.
"We have gone to some pretty serious measures to collect. We have literally dug up driveways and turned off water (and) sewer service until the bill is paid, cutting them off completely from all municipal services.
-- Mayor John Norman
If people can't even drive their car onto your property, take a shower, use the toilet, you're pretty motivated to pony up.
The mayor said the taxation method has been successful, but he acknowledges not all Airbnb owners are pleased.
"I don't think some are happy about it, but it is what it is."
This is a pretty effective fix to unfair competition by airbnb hosts. The next question is, how can we apply the same thinking to uber and lyft?
(Score: 0, Troll) by exaeta on Wednesday September 11 2019, @01:20AM (21 children)
I agree. This whole "unfair competition" rhetoric masks the real suffering and poverty caused by governmental corruption. In every instance of corruption, real people end up dying as a result of economic effects. There is always someone on the line between life and death and every instance of corruption pushes some people into the death category. It's an evil that should never be ignored.
The Government is a Bird
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @03:51AM (16 children)
Don't want to pay taxes? Go somewhere that doesn't charge them.
Otherwise, shut the fuck up.
I'm sure there are many places in the Mojave desert or up in the Northern Territories where no taxes are levied. Good luck with that.
(Score: -1, Troll) by khallow on Wednesday September 11 2019, @04:18AM (14 children)
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @05:06AM (11 children)
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll put it in an appropriate place.
Way to non-sequitur, khallow! Good show.
I don't live in Canada, but while their parliamentary system is a bit different from that in the US, the concept that folks get elected to *represent* the populace and make decisions on their behalf is pretty much the same.
The idea of taxes (whether they be sales, property or business) is pretty widespread. This particular place has implemented a "business tax" that those who operate a business are required to pay.
Renting out space, whether it's commercial real estate, flats, hotel rooms or part of your house via Air-BNB are all businesses. As such, they are required to pay this "business tax." Whether that's right or wrong is irrelevant, as those who have been elected to represent the populace have decided that's the law.
It appears that the government of this town has determined that if you're not paying the taxes that fund the water/sewer systems, you forfeit the right to use them.
Is that good or bad? I make no judgement about that. It's the law. Don't like the law? Elect folks who will change it. Easy peasy.
And if that's too much trouble, you can take Professor Bernardo de la Paz's point of view:
In the real world, when one breaks the rules, there are generally consequences. In this case, the consequence is losing access to water and sewer services unless and until you pay the taxes due.
Exaeta appears to want folks to have access to resources that are funded by tax money, but doesn't believe they should pay for those services. I think that's parasitical and it disgusts me.
Don't like it? Too fucking bad.
(Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Wednesday September 11 2019, @11:43AM (10 children)
"Our own formula" is just making up shit at this point. I bet that's not the law. Plus, is renting out a room a business or not? I bet it's not.
Sounds pretty ridiculous to me. Shaking down people just because they have Airbnb entries and there's enough money there for a full time staff member to get involved.
Second, as the poster noted, even when things are legal, bad law can hurt people. While it's good that you at least recognize that bad law should be changed, this often is done by breaking it. This story is very soft on what sort of property taxes are allegedly being evaded. But given the "unfair" talk, it sounds like they're high enough that businesses shouldn't be paying them either.
Note how bad law works here. Because the business rate is higher than the residential rate, the city has yet another excuse to monitor everyone, cut essential services, and in general be assholes just because the tax differential exists. As the earlier poster noted, that does harm and kill people even if we can't see it.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 11 2019, @01:37PM (5 children)
The law is being applied to illegal Airbnb operators who don't pay their taxes. How is using Airbnb listings to find illegal operators any different from looking on Kijiji or Amazon to catch illegal counterfeit knockoffs?
First rule of breaking the law - don't do it in public, because you're more likely to get caught.
Second rule of breaking the law - the consequences are that all the income taxes you dodged at the provincial/state/territorial and federal law are probably going to have to be paid.
Don't want to pay taxes, move to Somalia. They won't cut off your water or sewer because they don't have either.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @02:47PM (1 child)
Northern Somalia is actually quite nice. My nephew and his father recently visited, and had a great time.
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somaliland&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwi3o76BgMnkAhUGJzQIHVWvCRIQFjALegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw1XzfsR-DGUJBrrvrmU584n [google.com]
As for southern Somalia, if it wasn't for western Europe, Russia, and the US stealing all the fish from their territorial waters, then dumping their trash in said waters (including, from Russia, nuclear waste), the fisherfolk of Somalia would still be able to make a living fishing. Without fishing being viable, and with mariner skills, piracy became an attractive option.
Yes, of course, I get the point you were trying to make, but your example isn't really true for all of Somalia, and for the parts it is, there is a pretty terrible back-story of abuse by rich nations that forced the situation.
(Score: 2) by Pav on Thursday September 12 2019, @08:50AM
Maybe if they had a bigger tax base they'd be able to patrol their territorial waters.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday September 12 2019, @10:28AM (2 children)
There's no regulation outlawing Airbnb operators in this town. You're not even on the right page. Let me reiteration my objections given your present objections: 1) Airbnb operation is legal, 2) renting to others is not in itself a business, thus 3) being an Airbnb operator is not in itself a business. Hence, 4) no actual tax evasion has been demonstrated, it's an interpretation of the law by this town's government. A large part of the problem here is 5) that the town is taxing businesses more than residences. If 6) they didn't do that, they'd still have the tax base and 7) no reason to meddle in the affairs of Airbnb operators, creating barriers to providing temporary housing for people who need it.
You do realize that Somalia is better off now than when they had a unified national level government?
I find it interesting how this is all interpreted as paying taxes for civilization rather than the local nazis in power jerking peoples' chains in order to protect some local business cartels. Needless to say, I don't share that interpretation.
(Score: 3, Informative) by barbara hudson on Thursday September 12 2019, @11:28PM (1 child)
Being an Airbnb host is a business in Canada. Renting a spare bedroom to someone long term isn't, unless it's to more than two people or more than two rooms, in which case it's also classified as a business.
You can have fo people rent and share a house, but all 4 names have to be on the lease. If only one is, the other three are considered as rental income to the person or persons on the lease.
That's the law here, don't like it, don't ask for the benefits of it, like running water, working sewers, and a level playing field for business competitors.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Friday September 13 2019, @02:56AM
What necessary permits? No necessary permits makes that statement just as true.
No, if you read the story, you'll find it's alleged nonpayment of taxes.
Unless, it's not, of course. I don't buy your assertion here.
This is why.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @06:58PM (3 children)
I recognize no such thing. In fact, I explicitly said:
Don't put words in my mouth khallow.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday September 11 2019, @10:33PM (2 children)
[...]
So perhaps ou're saying bad law shouldn't be changed? I'm curious what was different about the words that I "put in your mouth" than what you actually said.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday September 12 2019, @11:33PM (1 child)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday September 13 2019, @03:20AM
And you keep asserting without evidence such things. As you admitted [soylentnews.org], long term rental is not a business even though it charges money and isn't a charity. What makes informal short term rental any different? Why does the time frame matter? The logic just isn't there to support your arguments.
Note that the AC poster has disavowed nothing. Sure, there's the disavowal, but it doesn't actually disavow anything. My view is that any words that I "put" in the AC's mouth were the words of the AC poster. If they don't like that, then maybe they should have said something different instead. It's not a straw man, if you actually said it.
A poster's inability to argue rationally is not my troll. You can't even show basic premises like that Airbnb participation is automatically a business despite repeated assertion. How can we define a business that excludes renting a spare bedroom long term, but not renting a spare bedroom short term? How about if the landlord is using Airbnb to manage their long term rental of the spare bedroom. Does that become a business then?
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @06:19AM (1 child)
Poor khallow is butthurt again! Makes you wonder why he sticks around. . . unless he enjoys it?
(Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @10:24AM
Can't be again when one is always.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @05:53PM
fuck you, you suck ass whore. as soon as you move and do all the work to build the place up, some leach piece of shit moves in and starts "improving things". just look at alaska. counties with no property tax and canadian and american state socialist scum moving in and running up the taxes everywhere. the small entrepreneur was there first. the parasite is an invader who should be run out of town at first sight or worse. too bad people are too dumb and fall for these professional liars.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 11 2019, @01:30PM (3 children)
The city is spending $10 billion on public transit improvements over the next 5 years. We've already upgraded the bus fleet to hybrids with air conditioning, and increased frequency of operation. We're adding 800 electric buses, which will be even quieter, a $5 billion regional light rail system that can move 100,000 people an hour (upgradable to 240,000 people an hour if needed) between stations, a new $800 million dollar maintenance facility and garage, and new subway extensions.
Canada is hardly a shithole. We pay for these muncipal improvements through (gasp) taxes. Hotels and inns pay their fair share, Airbnb operators don't (and generally dodge all income taxes).
We also have universal health care, something that every other G7 country except the US has. In my province we have a universal public drug insurance plan which everyone has to sign up for who doesn't have a private plan, and pay the premium.
Ironically, most people on private plans are pissed off that their private insurance costs more and covers less than the public plan (well, yeah, the profits have to come from somewhere, whereas the public plan is no-profit), and would love to be able to switch, but the law is, your company offers a private plan, you have to take it.
This was a sop to private insurance companies. One that it turns out was stupidly expensive for their users.
So, where I live, I have public transit that is usually within a minute of the schedule (gps and computer routing letting the driver know if they're running early or late), no bills when you leave the hospital, no insurance forms while waiting to be admitted - just show your health insurance card, nobody dying because they can't afford insulin.
Yep, Canada is a real shithole. Not like, say, Chicago or Washington, DC. Or the MAGA states.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday September 13 2019, @11:42PM (2 children)
Let's be accurate, shall we? The profit motive isn't the most expensive cost of a business nor will it's absence make the other costs magically go away. If you're seeing a huge drop in cost with the public plan, it's because they're plugging the holes with other peoples' money.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Sunday September 15 2019, @12:33AM (1 child)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday September 16 2019, @02:00AM
My view here is that the prime value of the business sectors that Airbnb and Uber are in is that they route around some serious economic damage in our societies. It's not Chinese investors buying up our precious homes that is the problem in places like Vancouver. It's the decades of regulations and obstructions. Orwellian two minute hates against "foreign owners" may feel good, but it's a sign that you're doing something wrong [xkcd.com] even if we don't know the particulars of your situation.