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posted by Fnord666 on Tuesday September 17 2019, @02:39PM   Printer-friendly
from the will-not-end-well dept.

Update: DannyB adds: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/edward-snowden-nsa-cbs-this-morning-interview-today-2019-09-16/

When pressed on whether he considers what he did unlawful, Snowden refused to take a position but said "it's not hard to make the argument that I broke the law." He went on to say that the government continues to allege that his disclosures caused harm but, according to Snowden, has yet to show evidence of that harm.

"They never show evidence for it even though we're now more than 6 years on, it would be the easiest thing in the world to show. We've never heard that story," he said. "If they had some classified evidence that a hair on a single person's head was harmed, you know as well as I do, it would be on the front page of The New York Times by the end of the day."

Snowden also took issue with the common refrain that leaking classified documents violated the oath of secrecy he took upon entering the CIA. He said an oath of secrecy does not exist.

"One of the common misconceptions in one of the earlier attacks, that we heard in 2015, that we don't hear of so much anymore is that I violated this oath of secrecy. That does not exist. There is a secrecy agreement, but there is also an oath of service. An oath of service is to support and defend, not an agency, not even the president, it is to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies – direct quote – foreign and domestic. And this begs the question, what happens when our obligations come into conflict."


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  • (Score: 3, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday September 17 2019, @05:06PM (15 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday September 17 2019, @05:06PM (#895262) Journal

    That tweet isn't "racist". You gotta do better than that, Monkeyman. Trump did express contempt, but that contempt wasn't "racist" in nature. Trump referred to the products of failed nations, coming here, to influence our country to be more like the failed nations they come from. I can, and will, point out that a lot of those kind of people are Muslims - but Muslim is not a race.

    It Trump prejudiced against Muslims? I think he probably is. Am I prejudiced against Muslims? Yeah, I am. But, Muslim is not a race, so that doesn't make Trump a racist, nor does it make me a racist.

    Language has a purpose. See if you can't use the language for it's intended purpose, alright?

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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday September 17 2019, @05:17PM (4 children)

    by DeathMonkey (1380) on Tuesday September 17 2019, @05:17PM (#895268) Journal
    • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday September 17 2019, @05:48PM (3 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday September 17 2019, @05:48PM (#895294) Journal

      *yawn*

      If you don't love America, then you SHOULD go back where you came from. Note that your link is just an opinion piece which draws on something called "guidance" - as opposed to laws or regulations. And, note that strict adherence to that "guidance" stifles free speech. So, do you believe in free speech? No? Then, you won't mind voting for a new law that enables Trump to shut you up when you don't agree with him? What's that? Now you want your free speech? But you don't want to allow free speech for those you disagree with, like Trump? Interesting . . .

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 17 2019, @06:05PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 17 2019, @06:05PM (#895305)

        Gee, and here I thought America was strong enough to allow people who might not be completely in love with it to have a voice and presence. Something about the allowance of dissent.

        By the way, does that mean that we can send Trump back to New York to fix all of the problems there before we allow him to set foot in the White House again?

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by vux984 on Tuesday September 17 2019, @07:58PM

        by vux984 (5045) on Tuesday September 17 2019, @07:58PM (#895344)

        "If you don't love America, then you SHOULD go back where you came from."

        What exactly does that mean if you are from America?

        3 of the 4 congresswomen he's talking about are born in america. But trump is right, his government is a complete and total catastrophe. And he's among the most inept world leaders around.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Wednesday September 18 2019, @03:47AM

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 18 2019, @03:47AM (#895483) Journal

        If you don't love America, then you SHOULD go back where you came from.

        Ummm... is it actually love if you refrain to point to the mistakes made by the subject of your love and expect it/her/him to correct them for the future? Really?
        E.g. you think doing so would be "good parenting" for one's kids?

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
  • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday September 17 2019, @05:25PM (1 child)

    by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday September 17 2019, @05:25PM (#895273) Journal

    I personally think that tweet is racist, but that's just a difference of opinion.

    I also must admit that I am prejudiced against Muslims and recognize that fact. I recognize there are Muslims who are fine people. My very large employer does employ people of various races, religions, etc. and I can work with them at any time. But my instinctive prejudice is still there when I don't know someone. It's there, and I recognize it is there, so I can try to not act upon it. I think it comes from the fact that I am pro-Israel. Not everyone will agree with me on that, but feel free to disagree.

    --
    People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday September 17 2019, @05:41PM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday September 17 2019, @05:41PM (#895287) Journal

      Wow. Salutes. My first few weeks in the Navy, we were taught that we all have our prejudices. We should all work to recognize our own, and to work around them. You get points for that. We need a helluva lot more people to do the same. THEN, we might put all these identity politics behind us. Those politics create problems that wouldn't exist without the politics.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 17 2019, @05:38PM (7 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 17 2019, @05:38PM (#895285)

    But, Muslim is not a race

    Neither are Jews and most of the other people pigeonholed by the racists. If you are prejudiced against Muslims, you *are* a racist. If you are prejudiced against Jews, you *are* a racist. If you are prejudiced against (pick some group of otherwise normal people), you *are* a racist.

    If you are arguing that you are not racist because these "others that clearly are not like me and I discriminate against" are not a race, then shall we then go to a term that you prefer? Like a bigot?

    "noun
            noun: bigot; plural noun: bigots
            a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions"

    "bigoted
            obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, and intolerant towards other people's beliefs and practices"

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday September 17 2019, @05:57PM (3 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday September 17 2019, @05:57PM (#895301) Journal

      You have made this post just to expose your ignorance?

      Islam is a political/judicial/religious system. A Muslim is not required to be Arabic, or to be black, or to be brown, or to be anything at all. A Muslim is required to worship Allah according to the dictates of Mohammed, as interpreted by all the Imams and what-not.

      Disliking, or even hating Islam is not, cannot, be "racism".

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Tuesday September 17 2019, @11:05PM

        by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us (6553) on Tuesday September 17 2019, @11:05PM (#895398) Journal

        rac·ism
        /ˈrāˌsizəm/
        noun
        noun: racism

                prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
                "a program to combat racism"
                synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice/bigotry, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, bias, intolerance; More
                anti-Semitism;
                historicalapartheid
                        the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
                        "theories of racism"

        Race (human categorization)
        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

        This article is about human races as a social concept and in anthropology. For the sociological concept, see Race and society. For "the human race" (all of humanity), see Human. For the term "race" in biology, see Race (biology). For belief that the human species is naturally divided into races, see Racialism.
        A race is a grouping of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into categories generally viewed as distinct by society.[1] The term was first used to refer to speakers of a common language and then to denote national affiliations. By the 17th century the term began to refer to physical (phenotypical) traits. Modern scholarship regards race as a social construct, an identity which is assigned based on rules made by society. While partially based on physical similarities within groups, race is not an inherent physical or biological quality.[1][2]

        *

        Race and racial identification is more than just ethnicity or physiometric entities. It is entirely possible to single out a religion, gender, or sexual orientation and declare bigoted beliefs about them as racism.

        --
        This sig for rent.
      • (Score: 1, Troll) by aristarchus on Wednesday September 18 2019, @09:17AM (1 child)

        by aristarchus (2645) on Wednesday September 18 2019, @09:17AM (#895542) Journal

        Even knowing all this about Islam, and still you are a fuching redneck hillbilly racist, Runaway1912! I am going to prey for you soul. For bait, I will use Trump. For vanes, I will use Democrats. For the end, I will use the abyss. You have stared into the abyss, Runaway? And did it not also stare into you? Your kind of "rural" American emptiness is the consequence of slavery and genocide, a purely destructive path, much like Fox News rebounding from the "Land Down Under" and the Assimilation Laws, that once it has achieved its objective, becomes purely and self-referentially destructive. The South will Lose Again.

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday September 20 2019, @01:56PM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 20 2019, @01:56PM (#896488) Journal

          Many people have stared into the abyss, as you should know. Many people blink. Some don't. In my case, the abyss blinked.

    • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday September 17 2019, @07:07PM

      by tangomargarine (667) on Tuesday September 17 2019, @07:07PM (#895324)

      Yes, exactly: If you mean "bigot", use the word "bigot." You can't be racist against things that aren't races.

      Words have meanings people

      "Jewish" is more problematic because depending on context people use it to refer to your religion, ancestry, and/or culture, and usually in a very blurry way.

      --
      "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
    • (Score: 1) by DECbot on Tuesday September 17 2019, @11:40PM (1 child)

      by DECbot (832) on Tuesday September 17 2019, @11:40PM (#895414) Journal

      I'm just going to pile on here to attempt to show a point.
       
      To continue your train of thought, if you hate Christians then you are a racist. If you hate atheists, then you are a racist.
      &nbps;
      Now let me be blunt. My belief, religion is not a race. But if you insist that it is, then American society should stop hating Jews, Muslims, Christians, and atheists because that would be racist.

      --
      cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 18 2019, @09:19AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 18 2019, @09:19AM (#895545)

        I hate dances pretending to be alternative to butter spreads. That's what I hate. Call me racist if you must.

        Brought to you by Rhumbavegimite.