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Changes in technology often produce ethical quandaries that did not previously exist. The successful transplantation of human hearts lead some to re-define death as "brain-death", so as to allow removal of organs for transplants. Now we may be faced with similar need for new definitions and limitations, as tech moves into neural interfaces. The article is to be found at Vox.
“Nothing was your own except the few cubic centimeters inside your skull.” That’s from George Orwell’s dystopian novel 1984, published in 1949. The comment is meant to highlight what a repressive surveillance state the characters live in, but looked at another way, it shows how lucky they are: At least their brains are still private.
Over the past few weeks, Facebook and Elon Musk’s Neuralink have announced that they’re building tech to read your mind — literally.
Mark Zuckerberg’s company is funding research on brain-computer interfaces (BCIs) that can pick up thoughts directly from your neurons and translate them into words. The researchers say they’ve already built an algorithm that can decode words from brain activity in real time.
And Musk’s company has created flexible “threads” that can be implanted into a brain and could one day allow you to control your smartphone or computer with just your thoughts. Musk wants to start testing in humans by the end of next year.
Of course, with medical technology, one could always make the argument that the issue was saving humans lives. Somehow we do not suspect that Zuckerberg or Musk are contaminated by such motives.
Your brain, the final privacy frontier, may not be private much longer.
Some neuroethicists argue that the potential for misuse of these technologies is so great that we need revamped human rights laws — a new “jurisprudence of the mind” — to protect us. The technologies have the potential to interfere with rights that are so basic that we may not even think of them as rights, like our ability to determine where our selves end and machines begin. Our current laws are not equipped to address this.
It's an in-depth article; a few highlights:
One of the main people pushing for these new human rights is neuroethicist Marcello Ienca, a researcher at ETH Zurich, one of Europe’s top science and technology universities. In 2017, he released a paper outlining four specific rights for the neurotechnology age he believes we should enshrine in law. I reached out to ask what he thought of the recent revelations from Facebook and Neuralink.
The four rights are:
1. The right to cognitive liberty
You should have the right to freely decide you want to use a given neurotechnology or to refuse it.
. . .
2. The right to mental privacy
You should have the right to seclude your brain data or to publicly share it.
. . . .
3. The right to mental integrity
You should have the right not to be harmed physically or psychologically by neurotechnology.
. . .
4. The right to psychological continuity
You should have the right to be protected from alterations to your sense of self that you did not authorize.
Alright, I know what you are thinking; wait, no, I don't! Not really. Let's keep it that way.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 18 2019, @09:39AM (22 children)
It's not about being forced. Nope. It's about being *coerced* by competition.
Let's say you're 100% against any form of neural interface. Let's say you know that any computer can be hacked, and therefore, will be. And that the cost of a neural implant (your very thoughts being monitored, your very thoughts being modified / tainted), are costs that keep you away.
Except -- across the street, Bob has one! And Bob? Just got that promotion, as he's literally 10x faster at his job now. More efficient. Can even argue in meetings, bringing in relevant data instantly, whilst you'd have to go and search Google for 10 minutes, and take another 10 to absorb that same info.... so, Bob wins those debates at the office.
Bob seems *awesome*. You seem to *suck*... even thought you're more intelligent, the use of instant data just helps Bob so much, you seem to suck.
So, what now? Do you keep losing job after job? It's not even a requirement, just... others are so better able to compete with an interface, and you aren't.
So you get an interface. Now, John across the street has you AND Bob to compete against. Soon, 20%, then 50%, then 99% of people have said interface. They're great! Can you still hold out, and hold a normal life?
Can you even *talk* to people who have such interfaces, and interact differently than before?
What about when people are all speaking via Local Instant Messaging via said app, and you can't hear, yet everyone else in the room can?
My point here is, there are 100 potential scenarios where such an interface is a great boon. You aren't FORCED to get one, but if you don't? Welp. Your prospects are cut.
Don't agree? OK.. go to school, or live in society without a computer. People not only look at you funny, it can hurt your ability to succeed.
Note: this same argument exists for genetic engineering your child. Even if your local area prohibits it with laws, the rich will fly to areas it is allowed, and conceive there. Fly home, birth locally, their child is 2x as strong, faster, intelligent than yours. Are you going to want your child to be an idiot, compared to those around him/her? Nope! You *will* enhance your child, or your lineage will die. Who wants to mate with an ugly, slow, temperamental, sickly, barely intelligent person? Well, that'll be your kid, compared to all others, without it)
Anyhow.
Yeah. You won't be forced. You'll do it of your own volition, because otherwise? You fail at life.
And that truly sucks, because such interfaces WILL be hacked, and can you imagine China monitoring your thoughts? Or, hackers infecting your mind somehow?
These things are going to simulate brain->vision, right? Connected to the visual cortex, yes? How above, while you sleep (with your eyelids closed), a message keeps flashing into your mind. "OBEY" or "LEADER = GOOD".
How about directly into your auditory cortex. A whisper. A constant whisper, when sleeping.
Or... let's say we bypass those two parts of the brain, and directly implant thoughts! Well, even worse! Because the auditory cortex and visual cortex are filtered prior to your brain making use of them. What if the interface to the brain, just pops thoughts into your brain? Past all normal filters, like filters we have in place to take in text, and what people say, and examine it?
Instead, the thought.. seems like your own! Want to be hacked now?
Is the thought that says "Submit to State" yours, or is it the interface? Or, are you thinking "Hmm, maybe it's too risky to argue with the state, to protest". Is that thought yours? Or is it a subtle way to reduce dissent?
This stuff is *madness*, and you'll be getting one, everyone will, or see above!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Common Joe on Wednesday September 18 2019, @10:20AM (4 children)
I was debating whether to bump this up insightful. I finally did. It could have been worded better, but AC's concerns are my own.
I keep hearing the phrase "You can do anything you want, but every decision comes with consequences -- good or bad." You can try to reject it, but it's like saying you're going to be a small farmer or a horse shoe repairman in today's world. That won't work anymore. As a society, we will be forced into this at some point. And judging from how things are going politically, it's not going to be pretty. Corporations will be paying for farms of people's minds. If a particular version of software / hardware damages a group of minds, then they'll just have to upgrade or abandon the group. (Who knows what happens to the people.)
Man, the Matrix looks pretty appealing because at least there you had the ability to choose. I think I need a drink.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Wednesday September 18 2019, @02:41PM (3 children)
Define "small farmer" and what you'd expect to get out of it. Sure, it'd be pretty tough to make a living, but I don't see any reason it couldn't work. You're likely not going to make a dent in the mega corp farm, but I don't see why you couldn't survive as a small farm.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by Common Joe on Wednesday September 18 2019, @03:58PM
There are plenty of reasons. Without getting into all of them, I'll leave you a one word reason: Monsanto.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Thursday September 19 2019, @01:42AM
Ask the Amish. [npr.org]
Or if you don't want to ask them... (And my numbers are made up for some small degree of simplicity....) When you have 1,000 individual farmers each farming three acres and the farmers get 1 bushel per acre and corn costs $2 per bushel to grow and gets $4 per bushel every farmer has made $6. Nice. But when you have 301 farmers, 300 of which farm three acres and 1 of whom now farms 2,100 acres (previously taken by 700 farmers at 3 acres each) and everything else is the same the 300 farmers make $6 and the big one makes $4,200. You've gotten the same total amount of food out of the system as the prior example (3,000 bushels).
(Actuially because of scale the one with 2,100 acres makes about $6,000 because of increased efficiency and being able to afford better yielding seed, but whatever). The seedmakers will raise prices, farm taxes will go up, and now costs per bushel are $3.50 per acre. The next year your 2,100 acre farmer makes $1,050 but still survives. Your other 300 farmers made $1.50 and their farms are now in foreclosure because they had to spend that $1.50 on their food and clothes and sending their kids to school. No money for seed for next year. The farming conglomerate only spent $300 total for their 200 employees on those costs so they still have the money for seed. (In reality the small farmer will take out a loan or a second mortgage and hope next year is better - but one only gets so many shots at that before nobody will lend to that farmer anymore).
Oh, wait, you thought that the prices would come up to meet those increased costs? Nope. The big guy can afford to absorb the hit, especially if it means there will be another 300 farms in foreclosure next year that the conglomerate will add to their portfolio and take reduced profit margins because they will truly make it up in scale and volume. The conglomerate will still sell theirs at $4 per bushel and the little guys can't hold out - they have to take the higher amount. That's why your bread is still $1.something per loaf today and not $10.00 per loaf as it would be with standard inflation. See a graph like this one [inflationdata.com]. There's always enough people who will sell low enough that price inflation is pretty well suppressed on the farmer's end of things even though they do indeed face inflation themselves, and try anything like crazy to get improved efficiency to try and meet it. Including buying out other small farmers if they can.
Sorry, long winded explanation. But the reality is for any industry, anywhere, the little guy can't compete head-to-head with the conglomerate and win. Not without providing some sort of value or additional leverage that makes doing business with them more worthwhile, or finding some efficiencies to eat the inflationary costs. It's why the old aphorism is that the only time a farmer ever really makes money is when they sell the farm off - if they survive.
We haven't gone anywhere near crop insurance, or that a drought year kills small farmers much worse than agribusiness, or that the government pulled subsidies that the small farmers had been riding on, or.....
This sig for rent.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 22 2019, @07:15AM
You could survive. But you couldn't participate in contemporary society, you'd be stuck surviving, and eventually the law or the powerful neighbours would eminently seize your domain. Consider even taxes; where does the money for those come from, in a society where for "food security" you can't get into markets, because you might have razor blades in your tomatoes? What about when the neighbours get the valuation jacked up so they can evict you, buy it at auction, and have it re-appraised back down after? This kind of thing already happens. It won't decrease as automation makes the motions simpler. That's what a purely liquid globalized market means - no space to survive at the "bottom of the market."
(Score: 4, Interesting) by SomeGuy on Wednesday September 18 2019, @10:35AM
If Apple is the one selling this stuff then you will also have to contend with the idiots who get one just to make themselves look "cool" or "hip". If you don't, even if you are still as productive or even more productive, then you will be considered "behind the times" or a "Luddite".
(Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Wednesday September 18 2019, @10:53AM (12 children)
Bob's cognitive function will deteriorate with each sudden discharge in the same room of a capacitor the size of those in photo flashes. like this [google.com].
He may even die from the EM noise of a high speed electric motor with worn out brushes.
Yeap. Finding facts/knowledge and creativity are two different things. The same go for physical skills - something that a lot of tradies use everyday.
Heck, I haven't seen the plumber I called using any computer while he installed a new water heater and he still charged me half a grant for the job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 18 2019, @11:03AM (6 children)
And when the plumber runs into trouble at work, what does he do these days? Go to the library for a textbook / building code book, go to the city, or access these via a webpage?
What if it's a weird problem? Web, or .. what? The local plumber's guild? Call friends that get upset, and say "Google it!"?
What about when he has to install a specific water softener? Or a UV filter? Or a new water pump in a well? Or a new fangled knock valve, or .. anything?
Do you think the docs still come 100% with these? Sometimes, sometimes not. Soon, not. After all, a user's guide isn't the same as in installer's guide, and many things come with only one, or neither. Why? Waste of paper, environmental and cost concerns! Google it!
What about buying tools for work? Is Mr Plumber going to go to Home Depot, then Lowes, then 3 or 4 different plumbing specialty shops? Or is he going to Google for price savings, order online, check for sales online, find info, reviews, details about product online?
Is the non-computer plumber advantaged, or disadvantaged yet?
See? That's just in Mr Plumber's professional life.
What about in his personal life? Will he shop 100% local, driving from store to store (or calling a lot) to get best-pricing, see if product is in stock? FYI, both professionally and personally, I find many local stores don't stock rarer items now, as people just order them online! In fact, some stuff from Home Depot, Walmart, etc is ONLY available by special order now.. not like 30 years ago, where it made sense to stock many things locally.
Of course, plumber can use the phone. He won't get to see, read about, research, find info about stuff.. but, he can call and order product that's not in local stores. But Home Depot, Sears, Walmart, have fewer / no catalogs now!
Where will he find info?
What about maps? Hmm? To get to job sites?
I can't find new maps any more. Any I find are a decade old here. They used to be updated daily. I guess he'll have to do with old maps, ask more questions of customers (how do I get to your house? why are you telling me to use gmaps/gps?)
See. Tech counts. Computers count. Not having one IS a disadvantage.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday September 18 2019, @11:11AM (4 children)
Oh, he and many others will. For sure.
He and his tradies friends are tradies because they have physical skills and know what to do to throw a wrench (so to speak) in your too high dependency on tech. E.g. the sparky will arrange for your power supply to go out and he will take care to not be affected by it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 18 2019, @11:34AM (3 children)
Eh?
You're not getting it. He *can*, but he *doesn't*. Every plumber I know, every contractor, buys online, uses computers or their smart phone to save money. To do things faster. To get docs. And to all the things you ignored in my post you just replied to.
That makes them MORE profitable, MORE efficient, and gives them MORE free time.
Meaning? They're more competitive.
You are disadvantages without a computing device today. You keep ignoring this part, and say "But you don't have to!".
So what? Meaningless. That's not the point.
The tradesman can forego all electric tools too. Use a hand drill. A cart and horse. So?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Wednesday September 18 2019, @12:43PM (2 children)
Sucks to live in your place, then.
'Cause mine came to see what I want, called his mate at the depot by phone, got a discount that was passed half to me on the materials bill, went there and picked the heater, was back in 1 hour. I was glad to pay him extra for the work, 'cause he saved me half a sday and the entire evening waiting for the delivery.
Can't get more competitive than personalized service and less dependence on logistics ran from hundred of kilometers away.
Maybe. There are advantages too in being less reliant on an infrastructure than may or may not be accessible when you need it.
You know those farmers that initiated the right to repair movement some years ago? When you risk your crop of an entire year because a sensor is faulty and the service will come tomorrow, together with the forecaster rain... you might get the idea that the entire technology that made you so efficient in raising that crop is actually a huge liability when it stops you from harvesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 18 2019, @09:07PM (1 child)
You're missing context (likely on purpose, as you keep doing it), by ignoring the ends of sentences, and thread totality.
I didn't say "only buys online", I said "buys online to save". Save being the key component. I also mentioned tools, which are expensive things.. yet you ignored that, and talk about a water tank, the most difficult thing to single-ship.
A plumber needs things like plumber's tape, solder, propane/butane, and 100s of little things like copper pipe joins, PVC pipe joins, PVC cement, and on, and on, and on.
These are all things that are typically bought ahead of time, in bulk. Pricing online = better than in store.
Of course, you ignore all those possibilities, and just say 'meh', and say 'but I saw this guy buy something from a store!' and 'he *called* someone'.
I don't know why you persist in ignoring things like this, when repeatedly mentioned. You're not debating the point, simply ignoring it.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday September 19 2019, @12:11AM
I thought I made it obvious that I paid extra to have the problem solved to my needs and fast. the
Immediateness consequence: there is a market for which considerations of 'saving a dime to waste a thousand' does not apply.
Could be do it by computer? I doubt that he maintains on Facebook his personal relation with the store owner where he bought the heater at discounted price and I really doubt that he could download the heater from the store to install it. His choice seems to be face 2 face, personal relations and doing a good job which includes the acquisition and delivery of the equipment. He seems to make a living good enough for himself, so I suspect the market segment he caters to is larger than only myself.
(bottom line: you can still make a profit if you chose not to save more but to earn more. Still works, especially outside the corporate environment.
Since the tools are mostly one of investment (at least within a year), I don't see how being connected with a neural Interface to the internet plays a role into it. Besides, I didn't see him using anything else but pliers, blowtorch, flux and tin, plumbers tape. Can't imagine those tools are that expensive or requires knowledge one needs to download from internet straight into the brain.
And obtaining all of these requires direct neural connection? Is that 'the survival factor for plumbers' as younseem to imply?
Mate, are you aware about the law of diminishing returns? Using a computer could have shaved probably $10 from his bill, in consumables. Like less than 1% of his total bill. Oh, wow, that's ... /s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday September 18 2019, @03:00PM
He opens the Ugly book, and searches for ideas. Failing that, he discusses the problem with his buddies at the bar. If that fails, he asks his wife for advice. The wife goes to Youtube, and downloads a video.
I'm only half joking here. We have "engineers" at work, who tell us how to do some thing or another. When questioned, a common reply is, "I saw it on Youtube last week!" The first few times I heard that, I thought it was a joke. Sadly, it's the "engineers" who are the joke.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 18 2019, @02:06PM (4 children)
Half a Grant? $25?
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday September 18 2019, @02:22PM (3 children)
Typo. Grand - half of it being $500
I don't know what a grant is and why is half of it worths $25. Should I?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday September 18 2019, @02:38PM
Don't see why you should.... anyplace smart except for banks refuse to accept them anymore, let alone a good Franklin. :)
Guess he's become Useless Grant again.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday September 18 2019, @03:03PM (1 child)
Ulysses S. Grant left his image behind, to be used on the US fifty dollar bill. Thus, half a grant would be $25.00, give or take, depending on where you go to school in the US.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday September 18 2019, @11:20PM
"it's all about the Pentiums" [youtube.com] by Weird Al. (Boy, is that already old!) Original song: "Benjamins".
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday September 18 2019, @11:30AM
They promised that with automation, and computers, and "the paperless office", and the internet...
In some rare odd cases yes the steam engine did pretty much eliminate certain classes of employment. But in general the DMV does not work 100x faster because they got computers in the 80s and now they got a website in the 10s and 10x10=100.
Its kinda like TV was supposed to bring valuable educational content into boomer childrens lives, whereas mostly they got "The Flintstones" and "All in the Family".
My guess is brain implants will be good for sex. not much else.
Much like home computers in the 80s, HPV vaccines in the 00s, tablets in the 10s, richer school districts will be "forced" to roll out this kinda crap to keep their school districts and therefore property values attractive, even though nobody much wants to participate in the scam. So there will be a couple very short generations of kids that are using brainwave stuff to shitpost on 4chan and insta while they're supposed to be paying attention in trigonometry class and everyone will pretend that's the greatest thing ever and it'll make them so successful in the job market.
(Score: 2) by Fnord666 on Wednesday September 18 2019, @12:54PM
If this strikes a chord with you, give Beggars in Spain [wired.com] by Nancy Kress a read. It's about children who are genetically engineered to never need sleep and all the implications that entails.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 19 2019, @08:51AM
I've been in industries where it was advantageous to smoke. The smokers included most of the management, and all the smokers went outside into this little sheltered area to smoke. So many deals were done out there that non-smoking managers got shafted and lost their jobs. Promotions on the floor were given to people the higher-ups knew, ie those who talked to them during their smoking breaks. Trying to spend time out there without smoking would get you ostracized worse than being excluded as it was obvious you were just there for the politics.
How much worse is it going to be when the in-group clique with implants can talk to each other without even the possibility of you luddites overhearing?