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https://kdvr.com/2019/09/05/fort-collins-agrees-to-remove-topless-ban-from-public-code/
Colorado city officials have removed a topless ban from city law that inspired a Free the Nipple lawsuit.
The Coloradoan reported that Fort Collins City Council agreed Tuesday to remove language in the public nudity code that barred women and girls over age 10 from exposing their breasts in public.
City officials say the ban is expected to be removed Sept. 17.
Officials say a district court judge and a federal appeals court have ruled against the policy in the past two years.
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Fort Collins, Colorado "Frees the Nipple"
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Overdrawn? But I still have checks left!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 21 2019, @06:34AM (25 children)
Regardless of your gender.
If it's legal for men to go topless, it's discriminatory for forbid women to do so.
I don't get this whole "it's bad to be nude" thing. No, I'm not a nudist/naturist, but we all have the same stuff under our clothes.
The only rationale I can see in forbidding *women* to go topless is that men don't feel they can keep themselves from raping if they're around women, especially if they have few or no clothes on.
And, of course, it's the woman's fault right? She should never have been _______ and she wouldn't have attracted that kind of attention. Bullshit. Don't tell women what (not) to wear. Tell men to stop *forcing* themselves on others.
Non-consent is the problem, not (lack of) clothes.
Where do we see that a lot? In Arab countries that treat women as objects and property.
tl;dr: It's just skin, folks. Nothing we all haven't seen all our lives looking in the mirror.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 21 2019, @06:53AM (1 child)
Anti-nudity laws should be struck down as unconstitutional anyway, since what clothes you do or don't wear is a form of expression.
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Sunday September 22 2019, @05:03AM
It's also a form of insulation in these here parts!
(Score: 0, Disagree) by DrkShadow on Saturday September 21 2019, @09:01AM (12 children)
You're obviously female, and you're obviously trolling.
It's well accepted that the breasts of female humans (specifically) remain engorged at all times in an effort to emulate the buttocks and appear sexually appealing. As Women, not so much men, have defined Everything Sexual Is Bad, then it would seem that women have defined the ends of breasts to be bad, and so breasts have been restricted.
Evolutionarily, breasts on humans (the only(?) mammal with continually engorged breasts) developed for sexual appeal, and so are purely sexual in nature. (They have other uses, but those uses aren't related to their engorged-ness.) Women define anything related to sex as bad (It's not sexual, it's art! Nudity isn't sex!), and so women implicitly define breasts as bad.
Women are their own worst enemies.
and there you go, talking about how "men can't stop themselves from raping." Of course, that is of course the only explanation, as generated by a psychic and parroted by the unquestioning followers.
(Score: 2) by Common Joe on Saturday September 21 2019, @03:21PM (9 children)
Umm... no. You were marked with a disagree, but I didn't see a reason, so I'll write one up.
By your logic, the smaller a woman's breast is, the less sexually attractive it is. A lot of guys don't believe that. It's not about how big breasts are. Some guys like them smaller. Some like 'em larger.
And if you go to a nude beach, don't go looking to get laid. You'll be arrested. Breasts aren't viewed as sexual objects there. In fact, pubic hair, labia, and penises are not viewed sexually on a nude beach.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 21 2019, @04:32PM (8 children)
Um, yes? If you disagree with that I would assume you have had your eyes closed and your fingers in your ears screaming "La La La La" for your entire life. Do you think the breast augmentation industry is there just for the lulz? Have you never seen a single porn movie (a media exclusively about sexual contact) and the women who perform in them? Any small chested actress invariably bulks up as soon as she gets her first paycheck. Ever been around a woman who expresses a hatred for another whose only stand out characteristic is large boobs? You can't deny it unless you are willfully ignoring the obvious.
And a lot of guys are gay. Most men prefer a woman who does not exhibit the body characteristics of a man or a young boy. A lot more are willing to settle but given a choice will nearly invariably choose the bigger bra size. It may not be politically correct, but it's true.
One of my buddies used to claim he preferred small boobs when he was married to a woman with small boobs. You should see the jugs on his current wife. Now he thinks big boobs are the best. It's obvious his preference is the ones he can access at the time you ask.
A tiny minority.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 21 2019, @04:58PM (4 children)
As a man, I find it disgusting that your (and the AC to whom you replied) focus is *only* on what men find desirable.
This isn't about sex or desire. This is about equality. Some random woman on the street doesn't care whether you like big breasts or small ones.
As for the porn industry, that's an odd place to get your ideas about what women think and want. The vast majority of porn watchers are *men*. As such, much of porn is tailored to what *men* may find sexually arousing.
I've got a flash for you: Unless you're *involved* with a woman, she doesn't give a rat's ass what you think about bodies or sex.
And the fact that as you're talking about women in this discussion, it's only in terms of their sexual desirability *to you or other men*, says a lot more about your attitudes than it does about women. It's a pretty adolescent, IMHO.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 21 2019, @05:37PM (3 children)
Spotted the pink hair activist.
Like it or not sweetie, women accentuate their boobs to attract men because it works. Otherwise push up bras, deep neck attire, and underboob would not be a thing. Feel free to rant and wallow in your disgust, but strip clubs, Hooters, Twin Peaks and topless baristas are real.
Way to make my point for me without even being aware of the irony.
That's not been my experience. Most of the women I know or have ever met are far more cognizant of others' opinions of their bodies than men ever are. Most of the don't care women I've seen are well outside competing in the market or else perpetually offended by anything sexual as was mentioned by someone else earlier in the comments.
That's the whole topic of this particular thread: the reasons for banning (or not) behavior based upon the potential for unwanted "sexual desirability *to me or other men*". Personally, I would never complain to cops for any woman showing their boobs, but lets not pretend that men do not like to look at them. There is a shitload of industries besides porn that take advantage of that very fact.
Enjoy your disgust, but chew on this. For every one of you, there are tens of other women who would gladly take advantage of their looks to get advantages in life. Do you think Melania was attracted to Donald's dad bod? Do you think Hilaria just can't get enough of Alec Baldwin's wonderful personality? Every gorgeous woman knows if they can snare a rich dude they are one paternity suit away from a 20 year career of not working.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 21 2019, @06:10PM (2 children)
AC you replied to here. Read this [soylentnews.org].
Your disdain for women makes me sad. Your dismissal of half the human race disgusts me.
If believing that women have value other than as sexual objects, and deserve the same legal rights as men makes me a "pink-haired" activist, then so be it.
I got your pink hair right here, jackass!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 21 2019, @07:48PM (1 child)
Sure you are.
I never claimed women deserved less rights. I actually agree with the ruling. I never asked for less rights. And I do believe that women have "value other than as sexual objects" too. I love my daughter and step-daughter dearly. I advise them all the time to stay far away from any relationship that might cause them dependence financially or otherwise. And all of this has absolutley jack shit to do with my original posting in this thread. You know, the one you ran off the rails on, to wit, my agreement with this:
Nowhere did I say that the entirety of a woman's worth is her value as a sex object, just that many (who can) exploit their attractiveness to their own advantage.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 21 2019, @08:36PM
If being born in 1966, having a 'Y' chromosome in all my cells, as well as a functional penis and testicles doesn't make me "a man in my 50s," then what does?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 21 2019, @06:38PM (2 children)
i find many different breast characteristics attractive. I find it suspicious when a man can't recognize beauty in many different womens' physical (and other) characteristics. smacks of trying too hard or mentally fucked.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 21 2019, @06:42PM
Agreed. I'm on board with the entire flat to gigantic spectrum.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 21 2019, @08:41PM
I've been amazed over the years at who I've been attracted to. They run the gamut: short, tall, thin, curvy, large breasts, small breasts, blonde, brunette, redhead, loud, quiet, etc.
The only thing that brings them all together is that I was attracted enough to them to attempt (and in many cases, succeed) to get to know them better and share some part of my life with them.
That's not to say that some people have specific physical characteristics that attract them more than others, but the idea that breast size (or any other specific characteristic) is universal as a measure of attractiveness is ridiculous in the extreme.
(Score: 4, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 21 2019, @04:47PM
BZZT! Wrong on both counts. Like many SN users, I'm a male in my 50s.
And am absolutely not trolling. Unless believing that discrimination is wrong equals trolling. Allowing men to be topless and not women is discriminatory. That's not a male/female issue, that's an equality issue.
My comparison to Arab societies was one of degree. Women are often required to be covered from head to toe in places like Saudi Arabia. And the arguments in those places are similar to yours: "Women's bodies are sexual and always so. As such, they must be hidden or women will corrupt men, because women are inherently lustful, scheming and bad and, as such, must be controlled."
This is paralleled here in discriminatory laws about clothing. It's also paralleled in our culture, sexualizing female bodies in the media, making claims that women must not be allowed control over their own bodies (e.g. contraception, family planning, etc.), and your ridiculous claim that women think sex is bad, is moronic on its face.
Women love sex just as much (and often more) as men do. What they don't love is folks like you treating them as sexual objects, instead of sentient beings with all the same rights as men.
Please explain to me why women shouldn't have exactly the same legal rights as men.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 21 2019, @08:20PM
And, by the general tone of your post, you're obviously misogynistic, and obviously have an ax to grind with at least some women in your life. How does it feel to be on the other end of the stereotype cattle prod ?
Yeah, a hundred thousand freaking years ago. Grow the fuck up, caveman.
Who cares if breasts are made to be sexually attractive or not ? Do you think these tiny bikinis, skin-hugging dresses or fishnet tops aren't meant to be sexually attractive ? And yet are any of these illegal ? Claiming that it's the woman's responsibility to not incite sexual arrousal in men "for their own safety" is the same kind of retarded argument being made in shithole middle-eastern countries to keep women indoors unless accompanied by a man and to force them to wear hijabs.
Women have been going topless on european beaches for decades. And men and women have been going topless or even fully nude in natural settings, saunas, and even city parks in some countries for just as long and even longer. Have generations of children been traumatised ? Have any of those countries turned into a rape-fest ? In fact, the levels of sexual assault in these countries are way lower than in those shitholes were women's clothes and whereabouts are heavily controlled by law.
And I don't know about the OP, but in my case, I'm a man. A grown man.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Nuke on Saturday September 21 2019, @09:26AM (8 children)
You have obviously not seen many naked men/women/porn. One reason people wear clothes, even primitive people in hot countries, is that they are not all the same and therefore many feel inferior if fully exposed, rightly or wrongly. Leaving the head and hands (or at least the eyes) is a bit unavoidable though.
For example I don't want to see my boss' dick or even his bare torso, nor him mine, even if I look the better. Nor do I want to see his secretary's tits, at least not in the office environment - too distracting.
.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 21 2019, @02:17PM (5 children)
I am not sure you're right on the reasons for wearing clothes even in hot climates. There is a protective function to clothing after all.
Also I am sure seeing someone naked would be a lot less distracting if it was just normal.
Not that I am in favour of running around all naked, but I am not convinced by many of the arguments.
And I seem to remember that there were studies that suggested since it has been become less acceptable for men to walk around without a shirt there are actually more people getting sick during heat waves.
So there is at the very least one good reason to question whether it is good for society to be this worried about nakedness.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday September 21 2019, @02:53PM (4 children)
Citation needed. Absorbent cotton T-shirts will keep you cooler than exposed flesh, by reason that sweat runs off of exposed flesh. More - equatorial people have long known that clothing protects from the sun. You run around naked or near naked in the hot summer sun, letting the sweat run off of you in rivulets, and allowing the sun to burn you, then get back to me. I'll stay covered up with a Stetson (or some such straw hat) and a T, and my year 'round denim jeans and Wolvering boots. And, if I don't have to be out in the sun, I'll stay under a shade tree or something.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 21 2019, @07:00PM (1 child)
Yeah, I don't think I'll manage to find the article, and I will admit I may have mis-remembered.
For what it's worth, I remember the article to be about Sweden.
Which means "hot" being maybe 30 degrees C, people might not have clothes quite suitable (linen shirts have become quite hard to find for example) and high likelihood of some wind at least. I don't have any actual data on cooling effect of shirt vs. not, but there definitely is a climate range (guess from experience: 25-32 degrees, shade, very light breeze) where no shirt definitely FEELS a lot better at least.
I was stupid enough to go snorkeling without T-shirt in Australia once, and got the sunburn I ought to have anticipated, so I am quite aware that running around naked can be really stupid in some areas of the world.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday September 21 2019, @07:32PM
I can get onboard with THAT! Yeah, if you are careful, and get past those first couple weeks of sunburn season, it would feel good to run around near nekkid. Or, completely nekkid, for that matter.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Saturday September 21 2019, @11:46PM (1 child)
Better reason: Melanoma.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 22 2019, @02:32AM
Who's that? Trump's wife or his daughter?
(Score: 4, Informative) by Common Joe on Saturday September 21 2019, @03:23PM
That's culturally ingrained whether something like that is distracting or not. Not all cultures care about that kind of thing. Our goal should be to be a bit more enlightened and not mind the petty stuff like this.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 21 2019, @05:07PM
AC you replied to here. I've seen plenty of naked people and watched plenty of porn. While there is variation in people, most of us fit into the middle of the range in those sorts of measurements.
I don't necessarily want to see people naked all the time, which is why I'm not a nudist/naturist. You see how that works?
But we do all have the same stuff. There's skin, there's breasts (we don't call them that on men, but they are there), there are penises and testicles and vaginas and buttocks. And there are (gasp!) navels too. So yes, it's all the same stuff. And no one is forcing you to go naked.
The point of all this is not that we should all be naked all the time. The point is that the law discussed in TFA means that women in Fort Collins, CO are no longer being discriminated against. And less discrimination and more equality is A Good Thing™
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 21 2019, @03:05PM
Males used to lose themseoves over a little ankle. Now we're arguing over breasts. If breasts are commonly seen, they will lose a lot of their sexual status. Most sexual arosual is in the mind and once the exotic nature of something becomes common place, it becomes just that: normal and thus unintereesting. Don't believe me? Then how did so many people in China start creaming their pants over crushed and infected feet where as no where else in the world did the same? Sexual excitment is mainly cultural and only takes a generation to change.
The reason it's legal to prevent females from being topless is because the nipple is concsidered a sexual 'organ' in females but not in males. Sounds stupid to me, but that's their argument. It's illegal to expose your sexual organs in public.
Putting yourself in risky situations is your fault. Sure the world should be perfect, but it's not and pretending it is means you'll find out much faster than most people. You'd let your kids run around in the street because cars are supposed to stop for them right? That's the same as walking around naked in a dangrious area of town or getting passed out drunk at a party. There's just some things you shouldn't do. Of course the agressor has most of the fault, but you share in some of it if a couple common sense things you refused to do would have avoided the issue completely. It's not your fault that the power went out during storm and your basement floods, but it is your fault for not having a battery-backup pump. You can whine all you want to the power company or the weather, but the only worth while thing you can do is get a better pump. So stop drinking enough to pass out.