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posted by janrinok on Friday October 04 2019, @02:04PM   Printer-friendly
from the some-people-just-can't-take-a-joker dept.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/fbi-monitor-violent-online-threats-light-joker-premiere/story?id=66031356

The FBI has received tips of threatening posts on social media calling for "unspecific mass shootings" linked to the release of the new psychological thriller, "Joker," starring Oscar-nominated actor Joaquin Phoenix that will hit theaters this Friday, according to a joint intelligence bulletin obtained by ABC News.

These threats have been circling online platforms since at least May 2019, but give no information indicating specific or credible threats to particular locations or venues, the bulletin said.

Some of the threats did contain references to a primarily online group called the involuntary celibate community, or Incels, and a subset that refers to itself as "Clowncels." However, the intelligence community doesn't necessarily regard the group as a whole as a violent one.

"While many Incels do not engage in violence, some within the community encourage or commit violent acts as retribution for perceived societal wrongdoing against them," the bulletin said. "Some Incel attackers have claimed inspiration from previous mass shooters."


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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Arik on Friday October 04 2019, @06:05PM (15 children)

    by Arik (4543) on Friday October 04 2019, @06:05PM (#902720) Journal
    Your levity is noted but seems inappropriate.

    We're talking about how a means of communication was subverted and destroyed.

    Bottom quoting may seem a small problem, but it's actually a pretty good example at that level of detail. It may seem a small thing but a world of small things all aligned in one direction has a very big effect.

    Top quoting facilitates communication. Bottom quoting discourages communication. It's no mistake this is a 'business standard' - members of the managerial class don't actually want to communicate with their employees. They want to give commands, they don't want to read responses. Which is why they bottom quote.
    --
    If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
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  • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday October 04 2019, @06:35PM (8 children)

    by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday October 04 2019, @06:35PM (#902730) Journal

    Wow, that never occurred to me. I thought it was a matter of convenience so the recipient didn't have to scroll all the way down to find the reply. We didn't have wheels on our mouse back then (two buttons was a luxury), if I remember correctly, and with user interfaces being what they are, it would seem the less you have to interact with the machine, the better.

    --
    La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Arik on Friday October 04 2019, @06:51PM (6 children)

      by Arik (4543) on Friday October 04 2019, @06:51PM (#902740) Journal
      "Wow, that never occurred to me."

      Strange?

      "I thought it was a matter of convenience so the recipient didn't have to scroll all the way down to find the reply."

      Do you have to scroll down to see my reply here? This is top quoting. Note how I associate my responses directly with the parts of your post each is intended to address.

      "We didn't have wheels on our mouse back then (two buttons was a luxury), if I remember correctly, and with user interfaces being what they are, it would seem the less you have to interact with the machine, the better"

      If you do need to scroll, the page down key should do the trick, I see no need for a mouse, let alone one with a 'scroll wheel' to do so.

      So far as user interfaces, I've seen very few improvements and many, many regressions.

      --
      If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
      • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday October 04 2019, @07:18PM (5 children)

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday October 04 2019, @07:18PM (#902748) Journal

        Do you have to scroll down to see my reply here?

        A little, yeah. Here it makes sense.

        I guess I treat email different than forums. More like postal mail, a regular letter, with no quote...

        --
        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
        • (Score: 2, Informative) by Arik on Friday October 04 2019, @07:42PM (4 children)

          by Arik (4543) on Friday October 04 2019, @07:42PM (#902754) Journal
          https://mailformat.dan.info/quoting/bottom-posting.html
          --
          If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
          • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Saturday October 05 2019, @06:34AM (3 children)

            by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 05 2019, @06:34AM (#902968) Journal

            I've read it - and Dan explains when it is better to use top-quoting, when bottom-quoting is more useful, and interleaved posting. So what. That only weakens your claim that only 'the chosen one' is the only acceptable method. Nevertheless, Dan is entitled to his opinions but that doesn't mean we have all got to follow the new Messiah Dan.

            • (Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday October 05 2019, @06:40AM (2 children)

              by Arik (4543) on Saturday October 05 2019, @06:40AM (#902970) Journal
              To take your second point first;

              no, you don't have to listen to Dan. No one (save you) called him the messiah. I just find his points valid.

              To the second;

              When is it better to use bottom quoting (he calls it top posting?)

              Please specify.
              --
              If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
              • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Saturday October 05 2019, @08:03AM (1 child)

                by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 05 2019, @08:03AM (#902984) Journal

                When is it better to use bottom quoting

                When people want to hear what YOU have to say without having to either skim what has already been said - they were paying attention weren't they? - and it is where the email opens up. They want answers, not the crap that preceded you finding the answers. The military is a good example, but many government departs also follow suit.

                I think that you might be making the assumption that everybody uses the same email software that you do. We don't. I had to use, in addition to regular desktops and commercial software, other equipment for sending a receiving emails. It had to be installable in the back of an armoured vehicle, or within a command bunker. But, nevertheless, it used the same protocols as commercial emails do. It also opened emails at the bottom, not the top. For a person using that equipment it makes sense to write your reply at the bottom. It then complied with regular document formats in that you could read from top to bottom, much like on our own site, and follow a discussion or conversation.

                There are commercial offerings that do precisely the same - even the link you provided mentions them.

                Your 'preference' for a certain style of email usage is simply that - your preference. It doesn't make everybody else wrong, It has nothing at all to do with 'immigration', you are not using an elitist communication system limited only to nerds who were working before most of our community were born but one that is available all around the world to a huge number of people. They are free to use it as they wish.

                • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Arik on Saturday October 05 2019, @08:32AM

                  by Arik (4543) on Saturday October 05 2019, @08:32AM (#902993) Journal
                  "But, nevertheless, it used the same protocols as commercial emails do. It also opened emails at the bottom, not the top. For a person using that equipment it makes sense to write your reply at the bottom."

                  I get that. I'm not criticising you for having to work with that garbage.

                  I'm criticizing whoever it was that decided to force a programmer to write that scat and impose it on you. And many many other human beings.

                  "There are commercial offerings that do precisely the same - even the link you provided mentions them. "

                  Yes yes yes!

                  That's my point!

                  Virtually every offering does this post September.

                  Prior to that, community standards prohibited it.

                  One tiny little example of how community standards protected us;

                  In early 1993 if you googled email virus you'd get a great page that helped n00bs understand a little bit about how computers worked, and reassured them that no, they couldn't get a virus just by opening an email. Only by saving and executing an attachment. That gave the room a human needed to gauge the danger in steps.

                  By 1996, however, the state of the art had progressed so far that almost anyone on the net could download Outlook Express which would autoexecute vbs attachments. For hilarious and/or catastrophic affect.
                  --
                  If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @09:19PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @09:19PM (#902800)

      "I thought it was a matter of convenience so the recipient didn't have to scroll all the way down to find the reply. "

      it is! it's breaking the fucking thread logic for convenience of the asshat who can't be bothered to find where he's actually supposed to fucking reply. goddamn windows using monkeys!

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by janrinok on Friday October 04 2019, @06:48PM (3 children)

    by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday October 04 2019, @06:48PM (#902737) Journal

    communication was subverted and destroyed

    Well, as we are communicating now then I can disprove the claim that it has been 'destroyed'. And, if you are looking at email more specifically, then let me put your mind at rest - it still works and is used by millions every day.

    Personally I don't have a problem with either top- or bottom-quoting. If I am at the wrong end of an email then Ctrl-Home or Ctrl-End will get me where I want to be. It is such a quick action that I don't even notice that I have done it in many cases.

    I agree that advertising hasn't done anything to improve the internet, but with adblocking sofware and NoScript I rarely see any adverts anyway. Of course, that shouldn't be a problem for professional/work/business emails: apart from invitations to help some poor soul move huge quantities of money from somewhere to somewhere else, I don't recall seeing a graphic advertisement in an email for a long, long time. But that might be down to the sort of company I keep and communicate with. Spam still exists, of course, but most of that is also filtered out efficiently by software.

    I still cannot make the link between AOL and immigration - but I'm only just starting my Friday evening drink so perhaps things will be more clear in a hour or two.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @09:21PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @09:21PM (#902802)

      "Personally I don't have a problem with either top- or bottom-quoting. If I am at the wrong end of an email then Ctrl-Home or Ctrl-End will get me where I want to be. It is such a quick action that I don't even notice that I have done it in many cases."

      ffs, it's not about getting to the top or bottom. it's about being able to reply to specific things without a bunch of confused, responses from the monkey you're trying to explain something to.

      • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Saturday October 05 2019, @06:29AM (1 child)

        by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 05 2019, @06:29AM (#902967) Journal

        it's about being able to reply to specific things without a bunch of confused, responses from the monkey you're trying to explain something to.

        Having never experienced this problem - perhaps because I write clearly (but I doubt that) or I communicate with intelligent people - this is a complete non-issue. What you are describing is a problem with the person you are communicating with - no amount of rewriting email software or imposing 'rules' regarding top- or bottom-quoting is going to change their ability to understand what they are reading.

        • (Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday October 05 2019, @08:20AM

          by Arik (4543) on Saturday October 05 2019, @08:20AM (#902990) Journal
          "What you are describing is a problem with the person you are communicating with "

          Only insofar as you're referencing the fact they have not yet been properly acculturated to the proper use of text.

          "no amount of rewriting email software or imposing 'rules' regarding top- or bottom-quoting is going to change their ability to understand what they are reading."

          That is technically true but seems deceptive in context.

          Their ability to understand is a sort of an abstract constant.

          But one method of constructing replies is particularly conducive to bilateral communication; civil discourse if you prefer.

          The other is particularly conducive to very counterproductive failures to communicate; to commanders who haven't even read the reports issuing suicidal orders with the unread reports attached underneath.

          So? I'm a bad guy, for choosing a side here?

          No, I'm really not. I'm as good a guy as I'm allowed to be.

          Yippie!

          --
          If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
  • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday October 04 2019, @10:08PM (1 child)

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday October 04 2019, @10:08PM (#902825) Journal

    ...so let me get this straight, it's people with crap net.manners, not the complete commercial and corporate takeover and whorification of the Internet aided and abetted by corrupt politicians, that's the real problem here? I'm with Jan on this one; you've been hitting the sauce early.

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 1) by Arik on Saturday October 05 2019, @12:57AM

      by Arik (4543) on Saturday October 05 2019, @12:57AM (#902886) Journal
      "...so let me get this straight, it's people with crap net.manners, not"

      Yes, please do get this straight. That's not what I was saying at all.

      It isn't one or the other. It's a system where the one feeds back to the other.
      --
      If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?