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How ICE Picks Its Targets in the Surveillance Age:
The winter after Donald Trump was elected president, strangers began appearing in a parking lot on southern Washington State's Long Beach Peninsula, at the port where the oyster boats come and go. Rather than gaze at the bay or the boats or the building-size piles of bleached shells, two men — one thinner, one thicker — stared at the shellfish workers. The strangers sat in their vehicle and watched the workers arrive in their trucks. They watched the workers grab their gear and walk to the docks. The workers watched them watching, too, and they soon began to realize that the men were from Immigration and Customs Enforcement. When the workers made eye contact, the officers nodded politely, but they said very little. For weeks, they just watched. Then the workers began to vanish.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 08 2019, @10:58PM (15 children)
The employers chose to hire them over Americans, so the jobs weren't "taken." You aren't owed a job, you socialist, you.
Really, if you're so outraged about illegal immigrants being hired by companies, how about, you know, fining those companies into oblivion? Strange how that doesn't seem to be done.
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 08 2019, @11:21PM
They should be. Pretty much the only reason people want them to come is to exploit them in some way. For the feelings. For the money. For the ability to lord something over others. Depending on who you read for votes. No one wants to think of the people who are being fucked over, the illegal aliens. Perhaps you should join in with your exact idea and boycott those companies. But you wont. You want to continue to let those companies exploit them?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by shortscreen on Tuesday October 08 2019, @11:45PM (13 children)
The idea that blame should be assigned to employers for hiring illegal immigrants seems to be a popular one that doesn't get challenged (on forums like these). It probably varies by state, but I found out that in my state employers are already required to collect documentation supporting the employee's eligibility to work and submit it to the government. It's on the gov to verify whether their status is legit, not the employer. It's possible that some dirty employers are coaching the illegals on how to better fake their info, in which case maybe some legal action could be taken against them. But I don't know what else anyone expects. More big brother stuff like national ID papers or databases? Forcing employers to refuse anyone who looks like they might not be a citizen? I, for one, don't want any of that.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @03:03AM (10 children)
Instead of more Big Brother and letting the president (through the executive branch) decide who is permitted to earn an income to support their family - we should go back to what we had when america was great - seasonal worker visas. They basically don't exist any more, but they were the norm until the 70s or so.
One of the big problems is illegal immigrant labor is more attractive to employers because they will put up with all kinds of abuse - unpaid overtime, unsafe work environments (without risk of injured people suing), sexual harassment, etc. So the very fact that they are illegal makes it harder for US citizens to compete with them.
Make it easy and simple for seasonal workers to be legit and all those things that give illegals 'unfair' advantages go away. Which means shady employers can't get away with being shady anymore and everybody starts competing on a level playing field.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @06:13AM (7 children)
We have seasonal worker visas. Problem is there are people who don't qualify, or otherwise don't give a shit about our rules, that want to make American money in jobs "not even the blacks want to do", in the words of Vicente Fox.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @07:14AM (6 children)
No, the problem is that rules have been made so excessively restrictive that most people who could previously comply with the rules can't any more.
Its such a bullshit argument to raise the bar 100ft and then blame the people for not being able to jump 100ft high instead of blaming the people who raised the bar to such an absurd height.
Ah, you think you are clever laundering your racism through someone else. Nah, brah. You aren't fooling anyone.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @03:19PM (5 children)
We have decided that at this point we only want exceptional people to come live in our house, because members of our own family in significant numbers are in danger of losing their livelihood with more strangers coming in. Strangers do not have a right to come to our house. Trying to do so otherwise is breaking in.
You are trying to rationalize the thought process of a thief. "Oh, the bank has so much money, but they don't give me any. The bar is too high, I should just take what I want."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @04:21PM (1 child)
And your rationalizing is, to say the least, absolutely breath-taking. Most of these illegals are working minimum wage jobs. They ain't living the good life on the gravy train. Perspective, dude. Get some.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @05:36PM
I do not care what they work at. We didn't want them here. They stole themselves in anyway. Get them the fuck out now.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @04:45PM (1 child)
And you are assuming that strangers coming in displace the 'family' workers. First, ignoring that unless you are Native American or Inuit that you or your forebears were once the strangers. So no, I'll reject your, "I got mine, fuck you," attitude. But second, you assume that any displacements caused are the worst thing, when immigration is actually generally good for the economy [publicintegrity.org]. For more than one reason [cbsnews.com]. Tell you what, let's do it your way. You can get back to me about how you feel when cherries are $15 per pound, your lawn costs $100 to mow, and your restaurant bill triples in the course of a year, and milk prices hit $7-$8 per gallon.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @05:53PM
Yes, and we had to follow the rules to come and work here. It was very involved, annoying and a lot of times disorganized. We were immigrants, but we followed the law.
You really think that if not for Mexican slaves our lives would be unaffordable? Did the TV tell you that on behalf of the exploiting class? I guess that you work, supposing that you do, in a field that has not come under pressure by foreign invaders yet. But spare a few cubic millimeters of brain to consider that when Americans are employed, they will spend their money in America, possibly with your employer, and thus make your job a bit safer.
(Score: 2) by meustrus on Thursday October 10 2019, @04:37PM
Exceptional people don't pick tomatoes or scrub floors. Your bank's "poor" facilities manager let some janitors in the back door anyway, because you aren't willing to pay him enough to afford "exceptional" (white union male) janitors. If he doesn't, you'll fire him and hire someone else who gets the floors clean without any of this uncomfortable and expensive talk about (colored) migrants.
If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
(Score: 2) by stretch611 on Wednesday October 09 2019, @11:56AM (1 child)
The reason why many of them put up with this abuse is that as an illegal, they believe that they will be deported if the complain or report their employer.
A seasonal or temporary visa for labor will not fix the problem because illegals will still deal with the abuse, while temporary workers, here legally, can complain more and have legal rights.
There needs to be a multi-layered approach.
First, I do agree with the seasonal or temporary labor approach... with one caveat. There should be a 50% labor tax on jobs through it. That tax should go to programs in the US to educate local workers so that if they don't have a job they can get one. It is also a necessity to make sure that they are hiring illegals because they can not find US citizens to work the job and not just trying to save a buck and paying crap wages. (IMO, many jobs go unfilled not because there is not people willing to do them, but people not willing to do them at the horrible wages the employer wants to pay; Why work in a sun scorched field being paid minimum wage and getting your arms ripped to shreds by vines and weeds, when you can get a minimum wage job at McDonalds in an air conditioned restaurant?)
Second. The seasonal workers should not be a burden on society. While they will be paying rent, and generally property taxes (which are paid through rent) will take care of children's education. However, all medical expenses should be paid through the employer. Any expense of the seasonal workers on society should be paid for by the employer... not the US taxpayers. And yes, full payroll taxes should be paid as well. While the seasonal worker will most likely not be here to collect social security and medicaid, these programs always need funding and an employer should fund them regardless of where he gets his workers.
Third. Regulation. All seasonal and temporary workers in this program need to be informed of their rights. They should know that they are entitled to the same breaks as US workers. They should know that they are entitled to overtime after 40 hours a week and all the other regulations that protect US workers. They should also be given contact information of the Department of Labor where they can report abuses of these laws outside of the employer. Just because they are seasonal does not mean that they are not protected from abuses like US citizens are.
Finally. The Stick. Allowing seasonal immigrants will virtually guarantee that all an employers labor needs are fulfilled. However, if they skirt the rules to get cheap illegal labor they need to be punished... severely. A minumum fine of $100,000 per worker, per year(rounded up) that they were employed. For skilled workers/high paying jobs, the fine should go up. It needs to guarantee that there is a heavy penalty on not playing by the rules. In addition to paying the fine, the illegal worker should be compensated by the company on how much they should have made had they been hired legally. Most important... IT SHOULD BE ENFORCED... REGULARLY and FULLY.
Only with everything will this idea work. The focus of illegal workers should be the company, not the person trying to make ends meet. Temporary foreign workers are fine, if they are not being used to depress wages and the above will do a good job at that. Without proper enforcement, companies will ignore the laws.
Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @01:20PM
Bolding - the strongest possible proof of intellectual rigor on the internet!
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday October 09 2019, @05:19PM
I think that's mostly because it's illegal for employers to hire illegal immigrants.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by ElizabethGreene on Wednesday October 09 2019, @07:11PM
This is the I-9 form you fill out when starting a new job. One of the kinks in the e-verify system is that an employer is not permitted to question documents if the person passes e-verify. This makes employment with copies of valid credentials a common way to gain illegal employment. The radio show This American Life did a fascinating special on it that is certainly worth a listen.