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posted by martyb on Friday October 11 2019, @12:17AM   Printer-friendly
from the When-in-the-course-of-human-events... dept.

Margaret Atwood's novel, The Handmaid's Tale, described the horror of the authoritarian regime of Gilead. In this theocracy, self-preservation was the best people could hope for, being powerless to kick against the system. But her sequel, The Testaments, raises the possibility that individuals, with suitable luck, bravery and cleverness, can fight back.

But can they? There are countless examples of past and present monstrous regimes in the real world. And they all raise the question of why people didn't just rise up against their rulers. Some of us are quick to judge those who conform to such regimes as evil psychopaths – or at least morally inferior to ourselves.

To answer this question, let's start by considering a now classic analysis by American organisational theorist James March and Norwegian political scientist Johan Olsen from 2004.

They argued that human behaviour is governed by two complementary, and very different, "logics". According to the logic of consequence, we choose our actions like a good economist: weighing up the costs and benefits of the alternative options in the light of our personal objectives. This is basically how we get what we want.

But there is also a second logic, the logic of appropriateness. According to this, outcomes, good or bad, are often of secondary importance – we often choose what to do by asking "What is a person like me supposed to do in a situation like this"?

The idea is backed up by psychological research. Human social interactions depend on our tendency to conform to unwritten rules of appropriate behaviour. Most of us are truthful, polite, don't cheat when playing board games and follow etiquette. We are happy to let judges or football referees enforce rules. A recent study showed we even conform to arbitrary norms.

[...] A small number of us, however, would rebel – but not primarily, I suspect, based on differences in individual moral character. Rebels, too, need to harness the logic of appropriateness – they need to find different norms and ideals, shared with fellow members of the resistance, or inspired by history or literature. Breaking out of one set of norms requires that we have an available alternative.

Would you stand up to an oppressive regime or would you conform?

Do you agree with this analysis? What would you do in such situations?


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  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Friday October 11 2019, @01:04AM (14 children)

    by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday October 11 2019, @01:04AM (#905495) Journal

    "Will you work at a straight job for something that calls itself an anarchist syndicate? Will you run an engine lathe eight unfucking hours a day because the syndicate tells you the people need what the lathe produces? If you will, the people just becomes a new tyrant."

    --
    La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
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  • (Score: 3, Informative) by barbara hudson on Friday October 11 2019, @01:37AM (5 children)

    by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Friday October 11 2019, @01:37AM (#905514) Journal
    "The people" in my world includes those I work with, those I serve (clients), those who are family, friends, neighbours, those who help me, the people I meet on the street while walking my dogs. I'm happy when I'm able to do something for them. It's not tyranny , it's being human.

    Try going through life with no purpose because "serving people makes the people a new tyrant". See how much you need a sense of purpose and worth that doing things that people value gives.

    Why do you think retired people volunteer? People retire, they die. Volunteer work can help postpone that. And it's not tyranny because you can quit any time or go somewhere else - there's a huge shortage of experienced volunteer workers.

    --
    SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
    • (Score: 2, Disagree) by krishnoid on Friday October 11 2019, @02:05AM (2 children)

      by krishnoid (1156) on Friday October 11 2019, @02:05AM (#905539)

      "The people" in my world includes those I work with, those I serve (clients), those who are family, friends, neighbours, those who help me, the people I meet on the street while walking my dogs. I'm happy when I'm able to do something for them. It's not tyranny , it's being human.

      And these people really need ... what is it a lathe makes? You know what, I'll just take your word that people need stuff lather-ed.

      Why do you think retired people volunteer?

      I'll need some backup here, but I'm guessing so that you can get that sweet, sweet nectar of both fulfillingly working your ass off for a while and then telling your evil boss to kiss your ass -- except now, you can do it every year. It'll be like a birthday present!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 11 2019, @06:11AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 11 2019, @06:11AM (#905612)

        Vapid

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 11 2019, @06:22AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 11 2019, @06:22AM (#905615)

          Mediocre! Immortan Joe does not approve.

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday October 11 2019, @03:23AM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday October 11 2019, @03:23AM (#905578) Journal

      Try going through life with no purpose because "serving people makes the people a new tyrant". See how much you need a sense of purpose and worth that doing things that people value gives.

      A slave master values the work output of the slave. That doesn't mean the slave has a sense of purpose and worth.

    • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday October 11 2019, @03:34AM

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday October 11 2019, @03:34AM (#905582) Journal

      Our singular "purpose" is reproduction, just like all lifeforms. We have a brain and do things so we can enjoy it. If you read the quote in context, you might laugh a little.

      --
      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
  • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday October 11 2019, @01:42AM (2 children)

    by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Friday October 11 2019, @01:42AM (#905519) Journal
    "Will you work at a straight job" - I see a sexual discrimination lawsuit brewing :-)

    BTW, just what is a straight job? And how do I tell them apart from the rest (asking for a friend)

    --
    SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 11 2019, @02:33PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 11 2019, @02:33PM (#905767)

      Just for your edification: Queers do queer jobs, and straights do straight jobs. That wasn't hard, was it?

  • (Score: 3, Funny) by Zinho on Friday October 11 2019, @01:47AM (4 children)

    by Zinho (759) on Friday October 11 2019, @01:47AM (#905522)

    What's that a quote from? I'd be interested in reading it.

    Also, to answer the question you asked, anarchist syndicates [existentialcomics.com] have perhaps gotten a bad rap over the years. I wouldn't mind so much doing engineering work for an anarchist syndicate if it's the type described by William Godwin. [wikipedia.org]

    --
    "Space Exploration is not endless circles in low earth orbit." -Buzz Aldrin
    • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday October 11 2019, @01:56AM (1 child)

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday October 11 2019, @01:56AM (#905532) Journal

      What's that a quote from?

      The Ultimate Truth, man! [rapeutation.com]

      --
      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 11 2019, @08:20AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 11 2019, @08:20AM (#905639)

        Those are excellent books, but I rate his Schrödinger's Cat trilogy higher. Just get the individual books, not the cut-down omnibus edition.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 11 2019, @03:27AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 11 2019, @03:27AM (#905581)

      The Spanish Civil War showed us that anarchism is merely another powergrab, of course, they won't call themselves a government, yet it is everything in fact, a government. They do their best to "encourage" everyone in their territory to join their co-op by preventing members from trading with non-coop members and vice versa. Everything is on "volunteer" basis of course, no compulsion better the threat of the threat of being ostracized.

      The war was such a shit show that it made Orwell write 1984.

      • (Score: 2) by Zinho on Saturday October 12 2019, @01:48PM

        by Zinho (759) on Saturday October 12 2019, @01:48PM (#906318)

        They do their best to "encourage" everyone in their territory to join their co-op by preventing members from trading with non-coop members and vice versa. Everything is on "volunteer" basis of course, no compulsion better the threat of the threat of being ostracized.

        So, kinda like.a labor union, but with a broader scope?

        Incidentally, I have read 1984, and I don't remember it being about the excesses of a cooperative decentralized society.

        --
        "Space Exploration is not endless circles in low earth orbit." -Buzz Aldrin