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posted by martyb on Friday October 25 2019, @07:44AM   Printer-friendly
from the buttery-males dept.

White House kicks infosec team to curb in IT office shakeup

An internal White House memo published today by Axios reveals that recent changes to the information operations and security organizations there have left the security team in tumult, with many members headed for the door. And the chief of the White House's computer network defense branch—who wrote the memo after submitting his resignation—warned that the White House was likely headed toward another network compromise and theft of data.

The White House Office of the Chief Information Security Officer was set up after the 2014 breach of an unclassified White House network by Russian intelligence—a breach discovered by a friendly foreign government. But in a July reorganization, the OCISO was dissolved and its duties placed under the White House Office of the Chief Information Officer, led by CIO Ben Pauwels and Director of White House IT Roger L. Stone. Stone was pulled from the ranks of the National Security Council where he was deputy senior director for resilience policy. (Stone is not related to indicted Republican political consultant Roger J. Stone.)

[...] "It is my express opinion that the remaining incumbent OCISO staff is being systematically targeted for removal from the Office of Administration," departing White House network defense branch chief Dimitrios Vastakis wrote in the memo. The security team had seen incentive pay revoked, scope of duties cut, and access to systems and facilities reduced, Vastakis noted. Staffers' "positions with strategic and tactical decision making authorities" had also been revoked. "In addition, habitually being hostile to incumbent OCISO staff has become a staple tactic for the new leadership... it has forced the majority of [senior civil servant] OCISO staff to resign."


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  • (Score: 2) by RamiK on Saturday October 26 2019, @01:39AM (12 children)

    by RamiK (1813) on Saturday October 26 2019, @01:39AM (#911949)

    It's not about being lazy or incompetent. It's about it not being part of their job. They're part of Aman which mostly deals with conventional military intelligence like cartography. They have a few combat ready troops for setting up forward listening posts and such. A couple of commando units for similar purposes. But they themselves only collect and filter rough information. Contemporary they picked up the "cyber defense" mantle with a few coders writing scripts for gluing APIs to scrape sites before running keyword searches and such... Maybe some email and phone call listening here and there... Some dumb "information warfare" nonsense like running facebook bots and making idiotic memes... But there's contractors for most of the heavy lifting. So, a lot of conventional SIGINT with barely any HUMINT.

    The kind of advanced, high-risk CIA cloak and dagger games you're describing is pretty exclusive to Mossad or, regionally, Shin Bet. This should give you an idea what kind of unit they are: https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-dismisses-reservists-who-objected-to-abuses/ [timesofisrael.com] https://www.timesofisrael.com/uae-based-intelligence-firm-said-recruiting-idf-veterans-from-elite-cyber-unit/ [timesofisrael.com]

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  • (Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Saturday October 26 2019, @01:41PM (11 children)

    by jmichaelhudsondotnet (8122) on Saturday October 26 2019, @01:41PM (#912070) Journal

    Funny how my local latency kicks up to 4 whole seconds when I click those links. Thanks for them that is informative.

    Did you watch the imitation game? When Turning meets the MI-6 guy another guy in the room says 'but there are only 5 MI agencies' and everyone goes, ooooh.

    Like casting directors in hollywood, all of this stuff recedes and by the time we hear 'No Such Agency', it has receded elsewhere under another name or no other name.

    And yeah it is clear to me unit 8200 is the propaganda-y arm that is probably not as harmful.

    So I wouldn't expect them to outright outsource white house sysadmin work to them, you know what I'm saying. Trump is in bed with zionists so he will have zionist fleas, and all of the anti-russia, white supremacy facade is the horse and pony show.

    Are you going to deny that at this late date?

    • (Score: 2) by RamiK on Saturday October 26 2019, @06:23PM (10 children)

      by RamiK (1813) on Saturday October 26 2019, @06:23PM (#912147)

      Funny how my local latency kicks up to 4 whole seconds when I click those links.

      umatrix here so I don't see any of it really.

      Did you watch the imitation game?

      I can't stand military, sports or hacking scenes. They get so many technical and inter-personal details ridiculously wrong it makes my skin crawl.

      under another name or no other name

      Well, you got me there. It's true. A lot of units and responsibilities come and go. Still, the IDF being a conscripted force largely composed of 18-21 yr/olds and reservists which simply limits the kind of work you can give them. But yeah, you get it so it's pointless to repeat it.

      Trump is in bed with zionists

      Speaking as a Zionist, Trump is an opportunist show man that will shed any and all attachments, affiliations and ideologies as soon as money gets in the way. Russia this... China that... It's all corporations and profits as far as Trump, and honestly, most people in power, are concerned.

      But, the fact of the matter is that Russia and Iran aren't open to business while Israel is and that representing the best interests of the American economy means siding with America's business partners when it makes economic sense.

      So, really, what do you expect him or any American president to do?

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      • (Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Sunday October 27 2019, @10:23AM (9 children)

        by jmichaelhudsondotnet (8122) on Sunday October 27 2019, @10:23AM (#912369) Journal

        I also use umatrix, the only thing that could have caused that latency is throttling of encrypted traffic between two european countries with state of the art internet backbones.

        The imitation game was hard to watch, i ploughed through it for sideways information, like what i referenced in the comment you replied to.

        News Flash: Ramik => believes in holy land given to a specific race by god, and that this is an actionable legal contract everyone in the world must agree to under threat of violence

        Your analysis is childish. Trump is a stooge, incapable of the level of thought required for any of this. He is a puppet and most of his puppetmasters are zionists, but they are trying very hard to obfuscate what they are doing, because zionism is hated everywhere and if Trump is associated with it, it will be bad for the brand. CNN zionists gave him free air time, facegag zionists are still helping him foster his faction of cucks, cuck Barr let Epstein get away.

        That you simply say, while israel has puppeted america and europe to sanction iran for half of what israel does regularly, e.g. stealing nuke tech, because we can do business with israel, so we should just do whatever.....

        Frankly I cant even describe your position without wanting to puke in my own mouth, how can you believe such shit?

        And the counter-agitprop 101 line, 'oh they are just bumbling government functionaries, they are harmless' is really wearing thin.

        Makes me really wonder who butters your bread to believe such obvious lies.

        Really what is wrong with you?

        • (Score: 2) by RamiK on Sunday October 27 2019, @06:29PM (8 children)

          by RamiK (1813) on Sunday October 27 2019, @06:29PM (#912486)

          throttling of encrypted traffic

          Check the traceroute. I bet it's just a normal delay on the transatlantic lines. Back when I was a teen playing Path of Exile you'd get 800ms ping differences between EU and US servers even when connected directly.

          believes in holy land given to a specific race by god

          That's not Zionism. And I'm an atheist so... Yeah.

          Zionism is just the recognition Jews need to live under their own sovereignty. For historical purposes, Israel was a good fit since no one else with a recognizable national identity was attached to it specifically. But early on Argentina was proposed by Theodor Herzl as well. But you heard me say most of that one way or another so here's a funny book playing around that bit that you might enjoy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Yiddish_Policemen's_Union [wikipedia.org]

          incapable of the level of thought required for any of this

          See that's where you're begging the question: You're assuming there's some complex conspiracy and when the facts don't add up - like Trump being the idiot most politicians are - you assume there's some puppet master behind the scenes. There isn't. It's just interests colliding, merging or conflicting.

          And Israel isn't tricking the US to do nothing. Iran is simply the follow up to the Iraq invasion. They both have oil. They both are selling it to China instead of the US. Open a map and look at the Persian Gulf. It speaks for itself.

          stealing nuke tech

          Meh. If the US can enter trade with the Germans shortly after WW2 and the Russians after the Soviets collapsed, why would it mind any of that? Don't forget Einstein, Oppenheimer, and Teller were all Zionist Jews. As far as the CIA, congress and house were concerned, it was simply a matter of time before Israel gets nuclear.

          Here's a quick review of the thefts in question: https://www.wrmea.org/016-may/panel-1-did-israel-steal-u.s.-weapons-grade-uranium-and-did-it-have-help-from-u.s.-citizens.html [wrmea.org]

          The key point to take from this is just how many Zionist Jews were in the nuclear industry. It's like the Chinese and Indian silicon fabrications programs. They don't need to steal American IP. There's thousands upon thousands of them working in the industry. Even if they steal here and there to accelerate progress, it's simply a matter of time before they get there.

          Really what is wrong with you?

          What you misunderstand is that the US, Russia, China, Israel and practically all the nuclear super states are constantly engages in espionage and tech "theft" against each other while playing whack-a-mole against anyone getting too close to nukes. But once they got there, they're part of the club. Everyone congrats them, gives them a pat on the back, and says let bygones be bygones.

          When the US stole Texas, weren't the Mexicans disgusted? When Tuskegee [wikipedia.org] was exposed, did anyone bother stopping to trade with the US? Hitler, Stalin and Mao killed by the millions... Africa... Asia... The Middle East... No one really cared as long as they don't have something to lose. And yet, you keep mentioning Israel while telling me I'm immoral for not focusing on them? Putting aside the blatant antisemitism, where's your sense of proportion? If you're into taking minor causes not your own, go picket for Catalonia or something where there no nukes involved so you can actually make a real difference.

          Look, I'm an asshole. You're an asshole. They're assholes. The world is run by assholes. Here's the theme song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrgpZ0fUixs [youtube.com]

          Putting aside Israel being right or wrong, there's nothing anyone can do about a nuclear state. So taking on the anti-Israel cause just leaves all talk and no action hypocrite. You want to prevent the next Russia/China/Israel? Don't let Iran get nukes. You want to personally do some good? Find a cause that's in your reach and go do it. Volunteer to soup kitchens... Collect donations... Recycle... Hell, join the peace corps or amnesty international and help around in Palestine if that's your fancy. Just don't go around telling people who disagree with you how you're disgusted with them. That gets you nowhere. It won't even get you a troll mod from me.

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          • (Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Monday October 28 2019, @10:23AM (7 children)

            by jmichaelhudsondotnet (8122) on Monday October 28 2019, @10:23AM (#912732) Journal

            I am not an asshole. You are.

            Thank you for summarizing the sociopath, ahistorical, apartheid viewpoint and attempting to brand me an anti-semite. I am not an anti-semite, I reject your propaganda definition and find the word anti-intellectual and inherently abusive.

            I reject your koolaid definition of zionism and your self-serving definition of anti-semite. Zionism is the belief God gave Abraham to the Jews after he almost sacrificed his son, and so they deserve it and it belongs to them, and always has. It is a multi-millenia war I want nothing to do with, and you are assisting in a massive rebranding/brainwashing effort to make it some sort of jewish clubhouse for the cool jewish people on MTV. It's really sick man, you are totally forgetting history and the meaning of words with doublethink.

            I would be as concerned if the army cloud infrastructure had been moved to canada or any other country, but in this case it is given to Israel who has been an awful ally and clearly can't be trusted.

            I am singling out israel because israel is the single country infiltrating my home country and subverting it, in many ways.

            Trump appointed zionist stooges and was given free time on CNN by a zionist so he could become president. Are you blind? Did you not look up those appointments?

            Everything russia and china have done to weaken and attack the United States, they learned by watching Israel and Israel continues to do. AIPAC has been breaking the same laws Trump is about to get impeached over for 30-40 years.

            Your viewpoint is propaganda and unintelligent, you should have your head looked at for brain slugs if this is really what you believe.

            Challenge me to a recorded debate with your real name on any of these topics, we will go 2500 words and publish it.

            Really gross dude, your world view is cancer.

            Yuk.

            • (Score: 2) by RamiK on Monday October 28 2019, @03:17PM (6 children)

              by RamiK (1813) on Monday October 28 2019, @03:17PM (#912829)

              I reject your propaganda definition and find the word anti-intellectual and inherently abusive

              "a person who has a hostile, prejudiced attitude toward Jews"
              ( https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-Semite [merriam-webster.com] )

              I reject your koolaid definition of zionism

              Then you're rejecting the historical definition. The religious variety of Zionism [wikipedia.org] you're trying to claim as the original was established by Yitzchak Yaacov Reines [wikipedia.org] who attended the 3rd congress following and was in a minority position compared to political Zionism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_Zionism [wikipedia.org]

              Same Yitzchak Yaacov Reines, btw, that supported the Uganda program despite strongly preferring Israel and believing in all that religious mambo jumbo you mentioned earlier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Scheme [wikipedia.org]

              Reality check: Following your definition of Zionism, I'm not a Zionist since I'm an atheist and therefore we shouldn't be arguing. And yet here we are...

              I am singling out israel because israel is the single country infiltrating my home country and subverting it, in many ways.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_electoral_intervention#United_States_elections [wikipedia.org]

              That's Russia, China, Iran, Ukraine, Gulf states, Saudi Arabia, UAE and Israel reversed chronological order.

              Btw, from the same wiki page:

              One study indicated that the country intervening in most foreign elections is the United States with 81 interventions, followed by Russia (including the former Soviet Union) with 36 interventions from 1946 to 2000—an average of once in every nine competitive elections.

              Just for the sake of proportions to give you an idea of why no one in power is making it a moral issue like you do. But hey, if you have the energy for a 2500words debate, feel free to start going through those 81 interventions on record and justifying those on moral grounds. I'll wait.

              I would be as concerned if the army cloud infrastructure had been moved to canada or any other country, but in this case it is given to Israel who has been an awful ally and clearly can't be trusted.

              And you're still saying Israel is hosting US military cloud infrastructure... Feel free to link anything on that.

              AIPAC has been breaking the same laws Trump is about to get impeached over for 30-40 years.

              Again, links.

              Your viewpoint is propaganda and unintelligent

              And fact based. I don't care much for intellectuals. All talk and pomp, not action. Feel free to contradict it with credible facts.

              Challenge me to a recorded debate with your real name on any of these topics, we will go 2500 words and publish it.

              In the context of debates, requiring my real name is ad hominem as it puts my identity into the discourse. Though I've linked enough stuff over the years that should let a persistent enough stalker figure it out. Regardless, no. Debating is for confusing rhetoric for facts and facts for fiction. The format limits every question and answer to whatever you can come up with on your feet and squeezes into 2 minutes replies and do nothing but measure the bullshiting skill of the speaker while discouraging going into any complexities and subtleties. As for essays, start with qualifying your statements by linking actual evidence before quantifying.

              Really gross dude, your world view is cancer.

              Yuk.

              An emotional appeal to the audience is useless when talking to a single person without an audience. Stick to facts and reason. This isn't a college lecture hall. You won't get cheers for calling people names.

              Overall, while I've yet to hear any from your, there's very good arguments to be made against Israel in the context of its handling of the Palestinians and its relationship with the US. Ethanol-fueled, a self proclaimed anti-Semite and white supremacist on this board, made a few over the years. But the thing is, whenever placed in perspective looking at the actual time lines, money flow, particular incidents, historical context, casualties... i.e. evidence and comparative analysis, all those arguments fall short and come off as biased against Jews.

              Either-way, start linking sources. Usually I'd refrain from linking to Wikipedia, but you can begin with that. I feel no amount of sources could compensate for misplaced context, but lets stick with 3 separate sources and examples as a golden rule for arguing outside established historical facts and narrative. Don't waste your reader's times with inflated statements. Consider referring to Strunk's The Elements of Style for general guidelines though I personally don't follow those too strictly. Feel free not to proof. I don't either even if graded.

              And remember, it's all cheap talk anyhow so just have fun with it!

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              • (Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Tuesday October 29 2019, @02:41PM (5 children)

                by jmichaelhudsondotnet (8122) on Tuesday October 29 2019, @02:41PM (#913274) Journal

                You refuse debate on specific points and want to do this cut/paste, pick and choose crap. Debates are the way to discuss this not rambling leaping from topic to topic, no one wants to read that jumbled crap in a forum.

                Before I read any more of that though, Im curious about the 'congresses'. I need to hear you say that you do not think that the current jewish people in israel believe that covenant with Abraham has anything at all to do with the reasoning for the nation of israel? Do I have that right? The torah is irrelevant? The original reason for jewish people wanting to be in Jerusalem is pointless history, and the religion behind it is now irrelevant? And the orthodox parties agree with this? I need to make sure you arent the MTV version of zionism for export, which I have noticed is pretty typical for israelis.

                I am not prejudiced against jewish people, I am prejudiced against israelis and zionists because their behavior has been atrocious and awful, and becaue they are racists and exceptionalists, who play this antisemitism game that is a cancer on western culture. Also because I have met them in person and in every case they were arrogant dipshits. Plus so much hasbara bullshit on reddit. People accusing me of things, like you.

                Have you heard of people like Weinstein and Epstein? Do they have anything to do with zionism or jewishness? What does that mean to you? Are people allowed to be angry or should we let them off easy because their ancestors were in the holocaust? Or is it antisemitic to point out how both used their zionist connections to legally rape in the united states for decades? Am I mistaken to be concerned about this?

                And political zionism for atheists, you want a jewish state, then how do you define 'jewish' and why does israel not have defined borders? Like, where is this state and how big is it? And so apartheid is necessary to preserve the race through racism?

                Does every ethnicity have the same claim to land or are jewish people special?

                I am very curious, very few zionists even attempt to justify it to outsiders.

                I'll get back to your recitation of the talking points after I have learned more.

                • (Score: 2) by RamiK on Tuesday October 29 2019, @09:03PM (4 children)

                  by RamiK (1813) on Tuesday October 29 2019, @09:03PM (#913422)

                  You refuse debate on specific points

                  I rejected the format, not the points. And as soon as you specify the points, in say, bullet points, I would respond.

                  Debates are the way to discuss this not rambling leaping from topic to topic

                  Debates are rambling. Go read reports, stats, and books if you want meaningful discussions.

                  the current jewish people in israel believe that covenant with Abraham has anything at all to do with the reasoning for the nation of israel?

                  What Jews in Israel believe is that Zionism is a reactionary response to the failure of Jewish integration in Europe which build up during the Pogroms, the Dreyfus trial and culminated in the Holocaust. That is, as Jews migrated from the villages to cities, it became gradually apparent that even if they were to become secular and attempt to integrate into gentile society, they'll be rejected on racial grounds and persecuted. As talks, funds and plans were formed, there was strong support for Israel from the religious groups and when other options didn't present any real advantages over Israel, they voted for Israel.

                  Argentina, Australia, Alaska and Uganda were all on the table at some point. Israel was just easier since the local regime welcomed settlers (and their money) and everyone agreed it would be easier to get the religious Jews on board if it's Israel. If the Ottomans objected and denied the request, it would likely have been one of the other options.

                  As for Israeli Jews today, many have religious sentiments to Israel. But in the end they're there because they'll get persecuted anywhere else. When they have a chance to work in the US, 100k end up in California. When Muslim French start blowing up synagogues, 50k leave for Israel.

                  Overall, carve out a nice piece of land anywhere else and offer it to Israel in a territory swap taking into account the costs of redevelopment and no pesky locals to deal with, and the government will take the deal.

                  And the orthodox parties agree with this?

                  You mean, the Shas guys that barely got 7% of the vote? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_2019_Israeli_legislative_election [wikipedia.org]

                  Look, you're right most Israelis feel strongly about Israel. But, wherever you go, there's a nationalistic majority. And yet, give those same people a better option, and they'll pack up leave.

                  African-Americans came close to doing the same back in the day: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Civilization_Society [wikipedia.org]

                  It's all about the circumstances really.

                  I am not prejudiced against jewish people...Have you heard of people like Weinstein and Epstein?...

                  And yet you just generalized about a whole people based on the actions of few of their members.

                  Am I mistaken to be concerned about this?

                  Yes. It's too disproportionate. A few black guys getting involved in gangs doesn't make the whole of them criminals. A few Muslims setting up sex slavery rings in London doesn't make all Muslims rapists. A few Americans going around the world starting a war every decade doesn't make the whole nation belligerent murderers. It doesn't matter if they're part of the leadership. It doesn't matter how much they earn. Their actions just don't speak for their people. Believing it does is the definition of prejudice. And prejudice against Jews is called antisemitism. That all there is to it.

                  And political zionism for atheists, you want a jewish state, then how do you define 'jewish' and why does israel not have defined borders? Like, where is this state and how big is it?

                  Even if I didn't have this discussion with you back at the day, all of that is just technicalities. A border is where the guys with the guns guarding it say it is. Feel free to take it up with them.

                  And so apartheid is necessary to preserve the race through racism?

                  Apartheid is racially based. What's happening in Israel is nationality based. It's how there's Arab Muslims and Druze serving in the IDF, representing in the Knesset, acting as judges and work in law enforcement. It's not to say the society itself isn't tribal and racist. It most certainly is. Most are. And it's not to say there hasn't been some racist executive decisions over the years. Much like the US and Europe, there been plenty even in recent times. But there are no laws in Israel discriminating over race. An Israeli Arab can buy properties in Jewish neighborhoods. Their schools are funded per-capita just like Jewish schools. Graduation and entrance exams to university are conducted in both Hebrew and Arabic. No one will tell you where to sit on the bus. No one will stop you from entering the mall. There are affirmative actions laws forcing large businesses to hire a certain amount of Arabs in the work place. Call centers must service Arab speakers. Street signs must display in Hebrew, Arabic and English. Arab owned business are taxed he same. Medical services in Arab villages are funded the same. There's Arab teachers in Jewish schools. Christian Arabs have more university grads than Jews...

                  This is why you should volunteer in the region before spewing accusations about racism this, apartheid that. When you stick to this debates nonsense you completely lose track of proportion reality. You raise one point, the other guy counter with another... It's just collections of anecdotes no matter how long you do it. There's hundreds if not thousands of points of reference. There's exceptions. There's exceptions to the exceptions. And then, you haven't even tried comparing the state of things to how it's done elsewhere in the region or even in Europe and the US.

                  Learn the facts. Read the reports detailing what's wrong with Israel. But then also read the reports detailing what's wrong elsewhere. It's not about the individual facts. It's about the perspective.

                  I am very curious, very few zionists even attempt to justify it to outsiders...

                  Look up scholarly works where the discussions are actually taking place. I dare say you can spend the next decade just reading on it.

                  I'll get back to your recitation of the talking points after I have learned more.

                  Do both me and you a favor and start here instead: https://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199756223/obo-9780199756223-0124.xml [oxfordbibliographies.com]

                  If that doesn't give you an inkling why I refuse to debate this and what you're getting into, feel free to start reading the actual books and get back to me in 2-3years when you're better informed on the subject matter.

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                  • (Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Wednesday October 30 2019, @06:24PM (3 children)

                    by jmichaelhudsondotnet (8122) on Wednesday October 30 2019, @06:24PM (#913820) Journal

                    I kindof appreciate this, your view is just willfully naive and you reject my entire viewpoint as an american, label me a nazi, which ticks me off. My belief that the israel lobby, of zionists, is a degenerative force, due to epstein and weinstein and many, many other incidents, is something you compare to black gangs. ? really.

                    I can't really believe you are serious, that is really blind.

                    Then you say,

                    'Apartheid is racially based. What's happening in Israel is nationality based.'

                    lol, so the forced sterilization of black people? The annual theft of property in east Jerusalem? Turning villages into parks? 40 IDF members resigned recently because what they were doing to repress the palestinians electronically was too evil even for them. The life of a palestinian is held in no regard, children are being shot in the kneecaps by the hundreds and this is the new normal. And leaders are shot in the head and the IDF says it is an accident.

                    I saw the tape. True story. The IDF lied just like you are, no way it is an accident.

                    I expect this from china not an alleged ally of the united states.

                    Meanwhile, when Jewish people have problems in Europe it is because they are 'rejected on racial grounds', when that is not the case. The actual german Nazis were rejecting Jewish people for the same types of things as Weinstein and Epstein and Goldman Sachs, they were waging cultural warfare, corrupting society, controlling the media, actually annoying, degenerate things for a subculture to do.

                    That is similar to what many are complaining about in the United States, if you are not a zionist then you are an antisemite and you arent allowed to work in many industries. Or even if you are jewish like Bernie Sanders, the democratic party, run by zionists, will sabotage your campaign. I have heard jewish anti-zionists so I know I am talking about a sect or cult of jewish people, not all of them. But for me this is a real thing, as an author or performer, it is a real secret blacklist that has probably affected me directly.

                    I listen to many reports directly from people living in palestine, I am aware from experience it is a classic tactic of zionists to claim everything is a mess and so who cares, try to read this tome and get back to me, and that is disinengenous. The tactic of the zionist is to evade scrutiny and punt, buy time, grab another piece of land. Michael Peled, 972 mag, breaking the silence, recent BDS meetings at Harvard, are where I get my information and they report similar behavior as well as harassment. The newspaper does not report what canary mission or the jdf is doing, jewish people are the only victims.

                    Im a long time bernie sanders supporter and youre calling me an antisemite, that's how far this has gotten. But Bernie isnt a zionist, the zionists hate him. Jeffrey Zucker, a zionist, at CNN gave Trump free airtime and helped him get elected rather than support Bernie at all. Like I supported Bernie for 20 years and then one day decided to go all nazi? fuck you.

                    Zionists are the nazis here, get used to wearing that hat. And all jewish people are not zionists, it is a whole separate designation because the rest of us are sick of playing your fucking semantic idiocy over who is a jew and who is not. I can call zionists a bunch of racist shitheads and that is not anti-semitic.

                    Ill do it again, zionists are a bunch of delusional racist shitheads.

                    What you are doing and what your people, zionists, are doing to the United States and Europe through control of newspapers, bribery and spy warfare is sick and twisted, and it is definitely something that stands out as treacherous and awful even when compared to China and Russia. Jewish people were supposed to be our friends, but Epstein and Victoria's Secret say otherwise.

                    You admit no wrong, claim everyone who criticizes you is just a rabid racist, and when you are clearly the racists you claim it is based on 'nationality', are you joking? Then you compare rich, well-connected, zionists who protect each other when they rape so they get away with it for DECADES, to poor black kids. Estein and weinstein are just privileged white guys, and trump is a white supremecist, and I am done hearing it.

                    You really can't see how your position is wildly hypocritical, self-serving and wrong? How it might piss off people who are affected by it in their own country?

                    Can you understand I get sick to my stomach even having to explain this to you, to even think there are people out there capable of believing their own twisted shit, while claiming to be superior, makes me want to take a shower?

                    And you understand I am the one who faces a blacklist for my position not you? That your people are trying to actually make my viewpoint illegal and declare all criticism of zionism to be the same thing as anti-judaism, and essentially erase my entire worldview by fiat? While you are the victim in the situation? You want to be singled out for special protection and privileges, but when you are criticized you claim to be just like everybody else.

                    And did I get that right, jewish people in israel are ready to absolutely give up any right to Jerusalem and israel based upon the Abrahamic Covenant? Could I get that in writing? lol no I couldnt and if you were talking to a bunch of evangelical christians you would say exactly the opposite to get them to vote for Trump and let you shoot a few more jaywalking palestinians to clear way for a golf course.

                    Are you sure you arent joking and you actually believe this shit you are spouting? Id believe at this point you are just trying to get my goad and it is all a prank easier than that a human being could believe anything so stupid as what you are saying.

                    • (Score: 2) by RamiK on Wednesday October 30 2019, @11:27PM (2 children)

                      by RamiK (1813) on Wednesday October 30 2019, @11:27PM (#913932)

                      Well, if that isn't a wall of crazy and hate, I don't know what is. Well, it's a slow news day so off to do some dumpster diving:

                      reject my entire viewpoint as an american

                      Not at all. Your narrative is your own. Many Americans have different narratives. I accept and even support a few of those. Sometimes I support American exceptionalism even when most Americans have given up. For instance, I'm generally a proponent of the early Domino theory (or at least, acknowledge it was believed by the working military-industrial class) and consequently end up supporting the Vietnam war and even Nixon on many points.

                      label me a nazi

                      Pretty sure I did no such thing. Mostly, because you're too young and American to have been a member of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei party and I wouldn't use Nazi outside the context. As for being antisemitic, you don't need to be so defensive about it. Prejudice and the formation of stereotypes is the default for human beings. It's literally how our brains are formed: https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/research-states-that-prejudice-comes-from-a-basic-human-need-and-way-of-thinking.html [psychologicalscience.org]

                      Google "prejudice scholarly articles" for hundreds of other studies in the field. Regardless, the issues isn't prejudice. The issue is discrimination. Which is why I keep trying to drag this discussion into the context of the law and its execution in society.

                      As for my remark regarding you, it was only in response to alert you to stop assuming too much about me and what I'm saying after you repeatedly refused to accept even the basic terminology as used by both Jews, Zionist and Arab scholars in the field. Imagine trying to explain musical keys when the other party is telling they reject your Newspeak definition (despite linking and quoting a dictionary entry) and that keys are only for opening doors and that using it like you do makes you a robber... Monty Python witch jokes aside, it just really is that silly of a scenario for someone who actually reads on the subject.

                      lol, so the forced sterilization...

                      It was an idiotic policy [wikipedia.org] by the Jewish agencies to prospective immigrants to encourage the prescription of contraceptive drugs to anyone without a high-school diploma. As it turned out, Ethiopian Jews as opposed to Americans and Europeans Jews, were targeted as a result. Because the policy was discriminatory in practice rather then intention (60% Europeans as opposed to >90%), it was terminated without legal actions. But again, it wasn't law or even an executive action targeting Europeans. It was the result of someone in the immigration office seeing there's a ton of uneducated people on the way and suggesting that young female immigrants should be encouraged to take contraceptives.

                      The annual theft of property in east Jerusalem

                      If you mean taking back lands when the leases run out, sure. Everything in Israel is on leases that don't extend over 100 years per British law. A few years ago the Knesset almost lost its deed to the land for the Greek Orthodox Church and ended up having to renegotiate another deed. In 100 years, they'll need to renegotiate or the Russians get it. Welcome to Israel.

                      Admittedly though, there are a lot of other disputes with other laws and complications. But trust a land full of Jew lawyers that it's done in such a way that the individual property laws will be recognized by international laws even if the country's own right to administer the land is put to question.

                      As a historical point of interest, in the 1948 war, Jordan took over Jerusalem

                      40 IDF members resigned recently

                      I linked that. And it was reservists getting kicked out of 8200 for refusing to violate Palestinians' privacy in an information warfare operation. And race had little to do with it.

                      children are being shot in the kneecaps by the hundreds and this is the new normal.

                      Links links links...

                      And leaders are shot in the head and the IDF says it is an accident

                      Only incident I could find is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebron_shooting_incident [wikipedia.org] from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%932016_wave_of_violence_in_Israeli-Palestinian_conflict#Claims_of_extrajudicial_killings_and_use_of_excessive_force_by_Israeli_security_personnel [wikipedia.org] .

                      Their first response to deny it is your typical blue wall of silence... What matters is the trial and sentencing that followed.

                      rejecting Jewish people for the same types of things as Weinstein and Epstein and Goldman Sachs, they were waging cultural warfare, corrupting society, controlling the media, actually annoying, degenerate things for a subculture to do.

                      That's... Well, the classics. What can I say that haven't been said a million times already? How about this then: Take that paragraph, post it on any forum you'd like, even Stormfront, and simply ask, "Is this antisemitic?".

                      But Bernie isnt a zionist, the zionists hate him.

                      I like Bernie.

                      And again, you seem to be under the impression prejudice and antisemitism is something its not and that you don't "have it". Hitler had Jewish friends. Dated a few. Almost married one. His mother's doctor was a Jew. Survived the war with special dispensation under the protection of the Gestapo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduard_Bloch [wikipedia.org]

                      It's not about individuals. It's about what you assume to be true about the group based on the actions of a few. In scientific terminology, it's selection bias based on bad sample size.

                      You really can't see how your position is wildly hypocritical, self-serving and wrong?

                      No. Yes and No. No it's not hypocritical since I apply the same standard to others. Yes it's self-serving since I'm a Zionist. No it's not wrong per facts.

                      Can you understand I get sick to my stomach even having to explain this to you,

                      You do seem to be very emotionally invested in the subject. Have you considered this might be affecting your judgement? Maybe, detrimental to your psyche? Consider some medical attention. At least enough to clarify why you're getting so upset about frivolous chats online or why you think the women you date are NSA informants. At the very least, one shouldn't be so affected talking to some random guy online if one was in perfect health, right? Maybe it's some vitamin deficiency. Maybe it's syphilis. Maybe it's a Jew plot to poison you... Either way, get some help. Preferably from a Christian doctor you trust. Maybe link them this discussion. You know, so they'll see I'm the problem. Not you.

                      you understand I am the one who faces a blacklist for my position not you?

                      Dude, you're a musician. What would they do, deny you a teaching position at the conservatorium? Not let you perform at police benefits? How many working musicians get any government support? You're not on a blacklist. People just avoid you for your crazy ass ranting against Jews when all they want is some guy playing a tune in their daughter's wedding or something.

                      declare all criticism of zionism to be the same thing as anti-judaism

                      I'm actually fine with anti-Judaism. All religions should be made illegal for the organized brainwashing that they are. Well, most flag waving too. Probably including Zionism. But anarchism and libertarianism are just too toothless and vulnerable to the exploitation of the powerful. So, like GPL vs. BSD, I must make due what I can with Socialism and Zionism and restrict the morals to what's practical. Life feeds on life and all that.

                      But this isn't this kind of discussion and you're clearly not in the mindset to have it. So, off to the trenches...

                      jewish people in israel are ready to absolutely give up any right to Jerusalem...

                      As an atheist Jew, give me enough money, a good piece of land and sovereignty to rule it over, and you can have New York too for all I care. And you do have it in writing right here.

                      As for Judaism, technically when the temple went down the city lost its holiness and all Jewish laws relating to it went out the window: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_and_customs_of_the_Land_of_Israel_in_Judaism#Rabbinical_distinctions [wikipedia.org]

                      Problem is, it's not Jewish Jews running things. It's secular Jews. And rich ones with properties to lose. And for them, the city had national and historical significance worth fighting for then, and now, as far as most Israelis go, they bled for the city for too long to just give it away.

                      Covenant wise, it's the other way around: Jews keep the faith. God secures the land. When Jews lost the land, it was because they failed the faith. When Jews returned to the land, it's because God decided it for, well, God knows why. Some say it's a test and the Messiah is just around the corner. Some say you gotta build the temple first. Some say it was the devil so they live in New York and aren't willing to get inoculated against measles...

                      Either way, they're all nuts. But, with enough money and lands, the sane ones will probably leave the crazy ones behind. I mean, they make for terrible neighbors anyhow without that unwilling to get inoculated thing...

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                      • (Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Thursday October 31 2019, @04:37PM (1 child)

                        by jmichaelhudsondotnet (8122) on Thursday October 31 2019, @04:37PM (#914212) Journal

                        Yes, I hate bad ideas, and you have a lot of bad ideas.

                        You want to jump around from topic to topic, this is why I will only debate you on a specific point if you want to go further. But I know also this is why you wont ever engage in a real debate, you wont be able to jump around and run the clock.

                        I am well aware that zionists can copy/paste infintely to reiterate their point and play games until the end of the world. So can all national socialist racists.

                        Now I at least know what you are and not to waste my time further.

                        Read your own absurd tomes praising the virtues of your own viewpoint, I will deal with observable fact.

                        • (Score: 2) by RamiK on Thursday October 31 2019, @05:15PM

                          by RamiK (1813) on Thursday October 31 2019, @05:15PM (#914241)

                          Read your own absurd tomes praising the virtues of your own viewpoint, I will deal with observable fact.

                          Again, many of those are written by Palestinians and Arabs countering my points... Well, whatever. Not like any of this stuff got resolved in the literature so I'm not one to toss stones in glass houses.

                          Take care.

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