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posted by Fnord666 on Sunday October 27 2019, @11:07PM   Printer-friendly
from the or-not dept.

A story notes that

[...] according to a new U.S. Army report, Americans could face a horrifically grim future from climate change involving blackouts, disease, thirst, starvation and war. The study found that the US military itself might also collapse. This could all happen over the next two decades, the report notes.

[...] The report paints a frightening portrait of a country falling apart over the next 20 years due to the impacts of climate change on "natural systems such as oceans, lakes, rivers, ground water, reefs, and forests.

Current infrastructure in the US, the report says, is woefully underprepared: "Most of the critical infrastructures identified by the Department of Homeland Security are not built to withstand these altered conditions."


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  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @12:04AM (27 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @12:04AM (#912562)

    Somewhere around college age (mid '70s) I decided to not have kids, for a variety of reasons--have posted about this as AC before. One of the reasons was this--seemed like it would be cruel to bring kids into the world described in tfa, which was being discussed seriously even back then (and in SciFi much earlier).

    Now I'm mid-60's and if the civilized world will hang together for another 20 years or so, I will have had a nice run. Since the '70s I've also been doing my bit to stretch things out by being personally as "green" as I reasonably can - bicycling for short errands, recycling, turning lights off, resisting many of the frills of consumerism, etc. Not proselytizing, just trying to be reasonable about my personal energy use.

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  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @12:13AM (7 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @12:13AM (#912567)

    The people pushing climate alarmism most vociferously are having children and flying private jets - the eugenicist left sure scored a hit with you.

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @12:47AM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @12:47AM (#912576)

      who said anything about climate?

      My comments were about conservation and the flip side of energy availability, maybe I should have stated it better. Unless we (globally) really invest now in renewables (and/or fusion) while there are still cheap fossil fuels available to build stuff, western society is going to suffer badly when energy isn't dirt cheap the way it has been for the last ~100 years or so. Just imagine the cost of steel and concrete (both very energy intensive products) going up by a factor of 10. That's going to put a real damper on any economy.

      I'm always reminded of Bucky Fuller's energy slaves. If you live in a western economy, you have the energy equivalent of dozens of slaves working for you. And many more when you step on the gas of your 200+ hp car. Yet you hardly notice the cost of your heating, electric and gasoline purchase. Thus the common statement that even many of the poorest people in the USA live better than the kings of antiquity, at least for now.

      Or maybe you think that fracking will be followed by some sort of super-fracking that can extract another big increment of fossil fuel and move the inevitable off? Maybe it will be pushed out far enough that it's your grand kids that will face an energy-poor future?

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday October 28 2019, @11:08AM (5 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 28 2019, @11:08AM (#912738) Journal

        Unless we (globally) really invest now in renewables (and/or fusion) while there are still cheap fossil fuels available to build stuff,

        We checked that box off over the past forty years and we still have cheap fossil fuels. What's mysterious about attitudes like yours is why you ignore over a century of technology and infrastructure development? Solar, wind, and hydro development happened. The "now" of your above sentence happened. And our "energy-poor" future will involve harvesting the vast energy output of the Sun, which is pretty damn cheap on its own.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @12:37PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @12:37PM (#912756)

          > Solar, wind, and hydro development happened.

          A good start is being made now (finally) on the electric production side, but energy storage is still lacking (except for hydro where a few good sites like Niagara Falls hydro include a storage lake that is filled and emptied daily).

        • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @04:18PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @04:18PM (#912866)

          Oh fuck you Mr. Pipeline defender, champion of corporate greed. The hard won gains WE have made are IN SPITE OF people like you. So don't go trying to take advantage of a better reality now like you aren't one of the people that try hardest to block it.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday October 29 2019, @02:21AM (2 children)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday October 29 2019, @02:21AM (#913091) Journal

            Oh fuck you Mr. Pipeline defender, champion of corporate greed. The hard won gains WE have made are IN SPITE OF people like you.

            "Hard won gains" like shitty appliances, and expensive electricity and gas? I think you need to read the definition of "gain".

            So don't go trying to take advantage of a better reality now like you aren't one of the people that try hardest to block it.

            Sorry, I'm not an idiot. When you actually do come up with a better reality, even if by accident, I'll be all over it.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @02:10PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @02:10PM (#913268)

              You must've gotten cancer from the wind turbines.

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday October 30 2019, @01:21AM

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday October 30 2019, @01:21AM (#913522) Journal

                You must've gotten cancer from the wind turbines.

                It couldn't be that you have nothing to say, right?

  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @12:45AM (15 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @12:45AM (#912575)

    To give another AC's perspective: I decided when I was in elementary school that I would never have kids. My logic was that if I had kids, I would probably love them, and I wouldn't want to sentence anyone I loved to this decidedly less than pleasant existence. Another factor is that I've had medical issues literally from birth, and cursing someone else with my genetic legacy seemed cruel. I acknowledge that this is the sort of thing that most kids grow out of, but continuing input from the world around me has only confirmed my initial conclusions.

    Now I'm mid-50's and if the civilized world will hang together for another 20 years or so, I will also have had a nice run. Considering the doctors advised it was unlikely I'd live to age 18, I've been pretty lucky. However, I have not been "green"; I refuse to recycle a damn thing*, I let the lights burn, I eat meat and enjoy every damn bite of it, and other such practices. The planet Earth has been trying to kill me since I got here, and I'm fighting back any way I can.

    * archeologists gain much information about prior civilizations from their garbage dumps. If we continually keep specific types of debris out of our garbage dumps via recycling, future archeologists will be deprived of much important information about how we lived. Please, think of the archeologists, and throw stuff away.

    • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 28 2019, @12:57AM (9 children)

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday October 28 2019, @12:57AM (#912582) Homepage Journal

      I didn't have any because they're loud, smelly, and require a shitload of time that I could have spent fishing. I've got plenty of friends and family with kids that I can borrow whenever I feel the need to pass on some hard won wisdom.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 3, Funny) by RamiK on Monday October 28 2019, @01:30AM (4 children)

        by RamiK (1813) on Monday October 28 2019, @01:30AM (#912595)

        Personally I just never understood the appeal. I didn't really consider any of the downsides so much as I never really saw any upsides. It's like when my girl asks which shoes I like better... I'm like, I'm suppose to have a preference in your shoes? I guess some sneakers would be fine? I don't even want to go to that stupid wedding... They're your friends not mine... Oh for fuck's sake don't bring out even more...

        Well, something like that I guess.

        --
        compiling...
        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Monday October 28 2019, @01:51AM (3 children)

          by Phoenix666 (552) on Monday October 28 2019, @01:51AM (#912602) Journal

          Well, to both you and TMB I'd say kids are the closest thing to pure love you can experience in life. They are also the closest you will get to murder. haha

          --
          Washington DC delenda est.
          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 28 2019, @02:11AM (1 child)

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday October 28 2019, @02:11AM (#912615) Homepage Journal

            Yeah, I get that. I just prefer to be able to send them back to their parents when it's the latter's turn.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 2) by RamiK on Monday October 28 2019, @04:05PM

            by RamiK (1813) on Monday October 28 2019, @04:05PM (#912862)

            kids are the closest thing to pure love you can experience in life. They are also the closest you will get to murder

            I do believe what you're describing is generally coined sadomasochism.

            --
            compiling...
      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @02:14AM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @02:14AM (#912617)

        I didn't have any because they're loud, smelly, and require a shitload of time that I could have spent fishing.

        Oh, thank God he has not breeded!

        I've got plenty of friends and family with kids that I can borrow whenever I feel the need to pass on some hard won wisdom.

        If IRL you are anything like you are on SN then I am guessing that there have been very few in the younger generation seeking out your "hard won wisdom". Just sayin'.

        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 28 2019, @02:38AM (2 children)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday October 28 2019, @02:38AM (#912625) Homepage Journal

          You kidding? Every last one of them thinks I'm the bee's knees.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Monday October 28 2019, @03:39PM

            by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 28 2019, @03:39PM (#912843) Homepage Journal

            Vacuously true universal quantifier.

          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @04:20PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @04:20PM (#912869)

            That does not bode well for those kids.

            Maybe you are actually a decent person and the internet turns you into a shitcock spewing asshat.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by hemocyanin on Monday October 28 2019, @01:26PM (4 children)

      by hemocyanin (186) on Monday October 28 2019, @01:26PM (#912778) Journal

      The fact is, if you choose to not have kids, you could burn drums of diesel in your back yard for fun daily for the rest of your life, and you will be greener than a bug eating bicycle riding recycler.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @03:23PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @03:23PM (#912831)

        > you could burn drums of diesel in your back yard for fun daily

        Sounds like I have your permission to fly on private jets, thanks!

        • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Monday October 28 2019, @11:06PM (1 child)

          by hemocyanin (186) on Monday October 28 2019, @11:06PM (#913014) Journal

          For the childfree, jet around to your heart's content. Those who don't have sprogs can do anything they want essentially, and come out green. https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/children-carbon-footprint-climate-change-damage-having-kids-research-a7837961.html [independent.co.uk]

          having one fewer child per family can save “an average of 58.6 tonnes of CO2-equivalent emissions per year. ... For example, living car-free saves about 2.4 tonnes of C02 equivalent per year, while eating a plant-based diet saves 0.8 tonnes of C02 equivalent a year.”

          Let's round up to 60 tons for easy math:

          you+spouse have 3 kids. 180 tons
          Each kid has 3 kids, so 9 grandkids. Each of your kids is half responsible for the grandkid, so you are now at 9*60/2=270 tons +180 for your kids, for a total of 450 tons/yr.
          You die, but your 9 grandkids have 27 great grandkids for which you are 1/4 responsible: 27*60/4: 405 (grandkids) +270 from your kids: now you are at 675 tons/r.
          Your kids die, but those great grandkids have 3 each, so you are now responsible for (81*60/8)=607.5, then add on the 405 (your grandkids)=1012.5 tons/yr.

          So yeah, choosing to be child free means you are the greenest of the green even if you eat beef, drive a hummer, take jets around the world frequently, and burn piles of stuff just for the heck of it. Do whatever you want, guilt free.

          • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday October 29 2019, @08:16AM

            by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Tuesday October 29 2019, @08:16AM (#913185) Homepage
            What backward part of the world are you in such that people have 3.0 children? Even Bangladesh is down to the low 2.x's now. The country I live in has had below replacement rate familiy sizes for several decades.
            --
            Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday October 29 2019, @08:25AM

        by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Tuesday October 29 2019, @08:25AM (#913187) Homepage
        I may try and massage that into a .sig quote if you don't mind.
        --
        Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
  • (Score: 2) by Coward, Anonymous on Monday October 28 2019, @05:41AM

    by Coward, Anonymous (7017) on Monday October 28 2019, @05:41AM (#912666) Journal

    Sorry to say it, but whenever people tell a story like that about why they don't want kids, I am saddened and think of Jonestown.

    The future has not been written.

    Even Hollywood gets some important things right.

  • (Score: 2) by Bot on Monday October 28 2019, @05:30PM (1 child)

    by Bot (3902) on Monday October 28 2019, @05:30PM (#912893) Journal

    >I decided to not have kids, for a variety of reasons

    #1 pamela said NO WAY
    #2 suzy said GET LOST
    #3 deborah said NO MISTER I DO CONDOM ONLY AND IT LL BE 30 DOLLA

    --
    Account abandoned.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @07:55PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @07:55PM (#912930)

      > ... AND IT LL BE 30 DOLLA

      Boy, it sucks to be Bot, sorry you had such a bad time dating.