https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50246324
"The US House of Representatives has passed a resolution to formally proceed with the impeachment inquiry against President Donald Trump.
The measure details how the inquiry will move into a more public phase. It was not a vote on whether the president should be removed from office.
This was the first test of support in the Democratic-controlled House for the impeachment process.
The White House condemned the vote, which passed along party lines.
Only two Democrats - representing districts that Mr Trump won handily in 2016 - voted against the resolution, along with all Republicans, for a total count of 232 in favour and 196 against."
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Friday November 01 2019, @03:43PM (27 children)
Trump should be impeached on the sole ground that he and his antics make the world a much more unstable place, hence threatening the safety of the United States.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 01 2019, @04:05PM (1 child)
So you're of the school of thought that it's strictly a political process?
That's one position, sure, but it's not uncontroversial. Check out the Laws and Sausages comic for an overview.
Seriously, it's a good one, and should be in grade schools nationwide.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Friday November 01 2019, @04:32PM
I had never heard of "Laws and Sausages", thanks. I glanced at a few- very informative, and hopefully factually accurate.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Friday November 01 2019, @04:27PM (24 children)
Perhaps you should define "stable". I can make a pretty strong case that Saddam Hussein made the world a more stable place, and that Bush made the world far more unstable with his regime changing. Does ISIS or DAESH ring any bells? Overall, Trump seems to be more stabilizing than not. He's pried Li'l Kim's ass out of North Korea to begin peace talks, has he not? Yeah, Trump's an ass, but he's not so unstable as many believe. But, for variable definitions of stability, I suppose you can condemn anyone you like.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Friday November 01 2019, @04:37PM (13 children)
At the time I remember there were strong arguments for keeping Saddam Hussein in place for overall stability. However, and I'm not sure what my vote would be, what if someone like Hussein was maintaining stability, but also committing atrocities? I've heard similar argument regarding Bashar al-Assad of Syria, and that forcefully removing him (if possible) would pave the way for expansion of ISIS.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Friday November 01 2019, @05:02PM (8 children)
I feel that slippery slope here, but I'll try - - -
An "atrocity" in our western society is pretty easy to define. An "atrocity" in the Mid-east is something else. I don't think that any of us, who grew up outside of that tribal culture can truly understand it. In their views, it's pretty much acceptable to kill off the population of a village filled with rivals. Or, better yet, kill off the men, and steal their women, their goats, their camels, and rape their sons. That is the apex of civilization in the Mid-east.
It is for this reason that Saddam Hussein can be credited with maintaining stability. He was hated, but his methods earned respect among his peers.
Now, please don't presume that I "like" that. Or that I "approve" of it. I am merely stating fact, as clearly as I am able to. Arabs, Persians, and most of the rest of those people are NOT Christian, not western, not Euro, not American. The thing that ties most all of them together, is their history under the Ottoman. The Ottoman nurtured this tribalism.
Bleahhhh - I'm not walking any further out on that slippery slope unless you insist, and I may not then . . .
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Friday November 01 2019, @05:33PM (4 children)
Yeah, thanks, it's very very complicated, with deep cultural roots, norms and values very different from Western, such that we Westerners just can't empathize or understand.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Monday November 04 2019, @08:10PM (3 children)
No, it's understandable and can even be empathasized with. But it takes a heck of a lot more study, dedicated academic study, than what soundbite news will tell one. Just like thinking that because one has been to Virginia and Kentucky and watched HBO one understands and empathizes with the Hatfields and McCoys.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by RS3 on Monday November 04 2019, @11:02PM (2 children)
I agree with you. In my effort to be brief, I often fail to write that which seems obvious to me: yes, sure, given enough time and mental focus, most people could understand it, but too many have other priorities. As you described it well, they just accept what they hear in news soundbites, and miss much (most?) of the underlying story. "Popular misconception" is too prevalent in society.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Tuesday November 05 2019, @11:37PM (1 child)
Yeah and you do have the core that even if the situation is understandable not many will produce the effort to do so, and people will continue to make judgments without all the information. And no, one can't know everything about everything within a lifetime, either.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday November 06 2019, @02:47AM
Right there's the problem (that bugs me much- overconfidence!)
But that said, how does a reasonable person know when they know enough about something to have valid opinions, worthy of sharing them such that others are enriched and society maybe enhanced?
(ugh, me the non-philosopher...)
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 01 2019, @06:14PM
I've never forgiven them for that terrorist group Al Gebra.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 01 2019, @06:29PM (1 child)
Oh NOes! Lookout! Runnyway is getting aroused!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 01 2019, @11:29PM
Runaway is only interested in getting peoples' goats.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Saturday November 09 2019, @10:25PM (3 children)
Americans never got to see it. Between government censorship and self-censorship by the media, you got duped into an unnecessary war.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Sunday November 10 2019, @12:21AM (2 children)
Thanks. Actually, we did have some news coverage, I did watch it closely, and I was infuriated that the US military was invading Iraq. I remember that there were problems with inspectors and inspections, but it wasn't reason enough to attack. Something is terribly wrong, and I've never been quite sure what it was/is. I've heard of over-zealous and brutal police, but the US govt. doing so on that large of a scale?
And, my frustration and embarrassment of the US govt. / military / lack_of_intelligence was just that: you mean to tell me the US intelligence community is THAT inept? Just what WERE they doing?
BTW, I felt Powell was being a yes-man- telling Bush (it was Bush?) what he wanted to hear. Again, not sure why though. What a mess... And it just pissed them off and we had/have created Isis, Taliban, etc...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by barbara hudson on Sunday November 10 2019, @01:31AM (1 child)
The moral decline in the presidency goes back to Kennedy, who was a womanizer and paid for it with his life (he had thrown his back during a sexual liaison and was wearing a back brace, so couldn't duck when the shooting started.
Then there was Johnson's secret war. Followed by Nixon. Ford wasn't really president long enough to do much damage, but was finally convinced he couldn't run because of the taint from pardoning Nixon. Nobody was buying his excuse that he had to pardon Nixon. Carter was the only president who, even decades later, is regarded as having integrity. Bush de was CIA - enough said. Clinton was another adulterer who lied under oath, and passed laws favouring neocon ideology. Bush jr was an alcoholic. With a history of cocaine use. Obama was a crackhead who had a hit list of over 3,000, backed by an opinion that he could order assassinations. He also sucked up to the banks, spending more taxpayer funds to bail them out of the consequences of their illegal frauds while it would have been cheaper to just take over the bad mortgages at a discount and not force people into bankruptcy. Trump - a crook.
The contagion is spreading. Justin Trudeau illegally interferes with the prosecution of SNV-Lavalin for bribes to Libya's dictator. Alexander Boris Johnson wants to be a mini-me to Trump.
What a mess!
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Sunday November 10 2019, @01:57AM
That was an excellent summary!! Pulitzer candidate. Thank you.
I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but sometimes I cynically wonder if it's all a smokescreen for what's really going on. Keeps the press busy and off of the real crap going on.
Yes, I've always liked Carter. He inherited an impossible mess. We (US) were too invested in the Shah of Iran and when that whole mess happened, well, we know what happened.
Oh yeah, the "energy shortages" of the '70s- 2 major times OPEC cut petroleum production, caused huge gas lines (queues waiting for petrol), huge price increases, etc., all hurt Carter's image.
From what little I know, I always thought that Nixon was mostly good for the US and world. He ended the horrible Vietnam mess and did much good overall. He said he was not a crook, right? I dunno, a little clever spying- I was a kid but I thought it was all very entertaining. I mean, how else do you follow a moon landing! ;)
(Score: 5, Insightful) by barbara hudson on Friday November 01 2019, @06:13PM (1 child)
Trump keeps sucking up to the guy, same as he does to other dictators. He's jealous.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 02 2019, @12:05AM
Kim Jong Un is Xi's puppet. If these missile tests were not authorized that is China's problem. If they were, then whatever blame is deserved lies with China.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 01 2019, @09:12PM (5 children)
No, he has not.
1) Nothing whatsoever has been meaningfully done about reunification or actually settling peace between the Koreas.
2) Nothing whatsoever has been meaningfully done about denuclearizing North Korea. Just a lot of noise where Trump has been pacified and can be "in love" with Kim while Korea continues it's proliferation effort.
He uses instability as a bargaining tactic, which is stupid given the characters he is dealing with. And he doesn't have the brainpower nor does he rely on the tools of statecraft. That's about as loose cannon as it gets.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday November 02 2019, @02:39AM (1 child)
Not gonna happen any time soon. There was too much time the two societies diverged in values.
Has been, what, almost 30 years already and the inner reunification of Germany is still a thing in progress [wikipedia.org].
Bottom line: if you expect any American president to do it or consider them a failure, all American presidents will be a failure.
"Politics is the art of the possible, the attainable — the art of the next best. Otto von Bismarck"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @08:19PM
Other American Presidents have not presented themselves as capable of solving the NK issue, or rather, presented that they're now succeeding where past ones failed. (Not without a success like Nixon actually going to China. Trump going to NK wasn't that because there is no substance behind the gesture.) Or actively PR'ing themselves that they have "made it happen" when they literally haven't done shit that's meaningful. Other Presidents much more meaningfully show the packed fist of why an NK attack is suicide for NK (i.e. joint military exercises). They use economic tools that work to constrain NK and they use diplomatic tools to get China to make sure NK still heels on the necessary level (oops! harder to do in a trade war!)
Bottom line: Other Presidents haven't tried to claim what Trump is falsely claiming he delivers, nor have other Presidents been taken in by NK's political maneuvering the way Trump has been completely suckered. And Trump doesn't even realized he's been played - he still personally thinks he's winning that one. Because THEY know Trump and Trump refuses to pay attention to what his experts can tell him about Kim. Just like all the others he is losing because he doesn't understand. Trump may or may not understand dealmaking (I think he understands how to con others and profit-by-weasling, not to make deals) but even if we give him that bit he does not understand diplomacy except in the "If I bully them they'll give me something good for me and I'll let them have something I don't care about" sense. Not dealmaking, really, and surely not the art of the possible which diplomacy is.)
Anyway...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 02 2019, @06:56AM (1 child)
2) Nothing whatsoever has been meaningfully done about denuclearizing North America.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @08:21PM
Show me where denuclearizing the United States has been on the table in relations with NK, then we'll talk.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Saturday November 09 2019, @10:34PM
He's functionally near-illiterate, talks like a 4th grader, refusing to read anything more complicated than single line paragraphs and bullet points - and even then he can't retain much.
He clearly has dementia. And to add insult to injury, before it used to be his hair that was the brunt of jokes; now it looks like large chunks of his face have worked lose from the underlying flesh.
He's unstable, and never been a genius. It would take a genius to keep all his lies straight, and a stable genius would be smart enough not to need to lie in the first place.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 02 2019, @02:27AM (1 child)
Except there are no talks. And Kim is still testing his nuclear weapons delivery systems [militarytimes.com] (that was *yesterday*, November 1 2019).
What's more he's targeting the US with malware [us-cert.gov]:
(again, this report was released yesterday).
Whatever "effort" the Trump administration *might* be making is a dismal failure, just like most of everything these incompetent bastards do.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 02 2019, @07:01PM
Exactly - he gave away the prize, which was giving Kim international recognition - without getting anything in return. Now Kim is rattling his pram toys again and Trump better come up with another gift.