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"The US House of Representatives has passed a resolution to formally proceed with the impeachment inquiry against President Donald Trump.
The measure details how the inquiry will move into a more public phase. It was not a vote on whether the president should be removed from office.
This was the first test of support in the Democratic-controlled House for the impeachment process.
The White House condemned the vote, which passed along party lines.
Only two Democrats - representing districts that Mr Trump won handily in 2016 - voted against the resolution, along with all Republicans, for a total count of 232 in favour and 196 against."
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Trump Impeachment: House Votes to Formalise Inquiry
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Can anyone remember when the times were not hard, and money not scarce?
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 01 2019, @04:22PM (28 children)
What the hell?! Has America (and/or sock puppets) fallen so far as to not care about morals? Everything has to be political games?
There is a lot of at least superficial evidence of:
1) collusion with foreign powers for elections (e.g. Muller report)
2) taking foreign money while in office (exactly which countries were on the no-fly zone, and which were not? Proposal of G7 summit at the Trump resorts. Refusal to release tax records. Refusal to turn over assets to a blind trust. What was with that China fashion deal)
3) obstruction of justice (e.g. firing a civil servant 1 week before they were eligible for retirement benefits)
4) abuse of power (e.g. holding foreign aid to Ukraine hostage in order to get dirt on the Bidens)
5) breaking of the constitution/basic human morals (e.g. separating families at the borders, not accepting asylum petitions, misappropriation of funds to build the border wall)
I'll accept that any, or indeed all, of those allegations could be spurious slander, within the rights of a president, coincidences, and "not his choice." But is it so inconceivable that some people actually want at least in inquiry into it, just to be sure?
It's sad, but I actually think it's true, that Trump could shoot somebody on main street and his supporters would still support him. Tribal politics is what it is, but I think everybody who says "he's our guy, so he must be okay, give me a fig-leaf excuse so I don't have to think anymore, USA! USA! USA! USA!" is a major problem.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Friday November 01 2019, @04:44PM
As you have stated your position above, there is nothing wrong with your reasoning. Clear, lucid, rational, I like it. Where the problem comes in, is in the cast of characters playing in this drama charade. Few of those actors are any more reputable than Trump himself. Start with that old hag, Pelosi, who only voted for a national increase in minimum wage, if she were guaranteed that her husband's employees in American Samoa were exempted from any such increase.
Given a world in which most of our elected officials were clean, I think that I could agree with you. But, in our real world? Those who aren't dirty are trying very hard to get dirty, and this impeachment attempt is just so much smoke and mirrors, to keep us distracted.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday November 01 2019, @04:46PM (2 children)
This should have been something you figured out about two decades ago, not in 2019. The rise of cable news might be to blame. Although it has gone into turbo mode since Trump did stuff like mock McCain and a disabled reporter without apologizing or quitting the race, as was expected at the time.
1. The ends justify the means.
2. It's all a numbers game. Like measuring the mood on Wall Street.
3. Some last minute October surprise can flip the race in favor of Democrats or Republicans.
4. The two-party system exacerbates the game mentality.
4b. Trump has set back third party candidates for a long time. Would-be third party candidates will follow his example and try to "take over the tent" instead.
5. There is a pendulum effect. One party enjoys 1-2 Presidential terms, and maybe 2 years control of Congress, and then the pendulum swings back.
Look at the numbers I linked. 49% support impeachment and removal, 47% oppose. Those are very similar to this generation's highly polarized Presidential election results.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @07:51PM (1 child)
President Trump never mocked a disabled reporter. He was mocking the person in the story who was caught in a web of their own lies. He told that story a dozen times before and CNN knew that. They lied about it anyway. Fake news.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @08:57PM
Yes. Mocking.
Very Presidential behavior. Right up there with picking sixth grade names for people and having to have a pejorative adjective for every one of your opponents that plays to your base of bullies and frightented supporters. Yup.
That's the President to me! (aka Why should I give a shit WHO he was mocking with that gesture. Reality is he thought it would be funny and powerful to show that's what his opponents look like. Disgusting in any human being and reprehensible in the President of the United States of America. As in literally beneath contempt.)
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 01 2019, @05:56PM (23 children)
The issue with an "inquiry" is that it's not really an inquiry. An inquiry would imply some people are swayable in their views. Even if the Ukrainian President himself said he felt in no way pressured, people would nonetheless try to claim Trump was engaging in a threatening "quid quo pro." And in fact the Ukrainian president has said exactly [time.com] that. When even the alleged victim is claiming there is no crime and all you have left is partisans, well - it looks like something being driven more by partisan motives than any genuine concern. Similar for things like the Mueller report. I'm not sure how that supports your case in any way. Remember, it was supposed to be a rock solid proof of criminality? In reality after two years of nonstop investigation at the cost of millions of taxpayer dollars absolutely 0 wrongdoing, at least to the standards of US law, was discovered. Nobody really cared, they just looked for another wild goose chase to go down which is where Ukraine enters the story.
I voted for Obama in 2008. I did not vote in 2012 or 2016. I've always considered myself extremely liberal, but the recent issues such as this have made me decide to likely vote for the orange man in 2020. The reason is in part because I simply cannot in any way, shape, or form relate to what the democratic party has turned into - but also because, in my opinion, they have been attempting to destroy Trump from day 0. Trump may not be a great president, or person, but a democracy requires that we make some effort to work together. And indeed Trump's first speech after winning the presidency did indicate some desire for reconciliation. I've no idea if it was sincere or not and indeed we may never know. The first calls for "resistance" were thrown almost immediately. All shortly following Trump's election:
---
Tim Kaine, Hillary's VP choice:
Loretta Lynch, Obama's Attorney General:
---
Fight in the streets? Do "what needs to be done" which may include dying? Coming from politicians at the highest level of our political systems? All because you don't like the guy that got elected? That's just so messed up. I fear that the democratic party I used to know is gradually transitioning to something much more awful, and dangerous. The fortunate thing is also think the DNC is dying and will probably die if they do not win in 2020. And hopefully from their ashes we can actually get a liberal party of the sort that can represent the people once again, and not the sort pushing for the formation of the brownshirts when they lose an election.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 01 2019, @07:48PM (14 children)
Frankly, I think that even just asking the Ukranian President for a "favor" is, at best, problematic.
For the umpteenth time, the Mueller report did not exonerate Trump; Mueller made it clear that if his investigation could have done that he would have clearly stated so. The conclusion was that, as per DoJ policy, he could not indict a sitting President. Mueller clearly laid out the facts along with an exhortation for Congress and the People to do their jobs. Instead, partisans in the Republican party and on Fox "News" decided that there was "nothing to see here" because chicken-shit Republicans in the Senate were not willing to go against a President in the own party.
Another bit of revisionist history. Ukraine "enters the story" because a whistle blower complaint came to light, despite yeomans efforts within the DoJ to keep it concealed.
Huh? You seem to have a rather idiosyncratic view of the content of those quotes. My interpretation was that they would use every legal means at their disposal to oppose the President's policies. But I'm sure you knew that already. And what is so god awful wrong with getting better people elected to public office, challenge egregiously bad policies in the courts, publicly protesting, etc? You know, like the way free peoples have a right to challenge their elected officials? Or do you not really believe in democracy after all? Not to put too fine a point on this but neither Sen Kaine nor Attorney General Lynch have attempted to lead an army of goons to stage a putsch in DC. In contrast, our President has been somewhat more ambiguous about following the rule of law. [axios.com]
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 02 2019, @03:39AM (13 children)
I suggest, put arguing with GP on hold. Take another serious look around at various events over the past three years. People being denied service at restaurants and such because of their political views and affiliations? That shit can turn very deadly, without warning. To date, the R's have been the victims, and the R's have handled the situation(s) rather gracefully. It would only take ONE instance for bodies to start hitting the ground, and we'll have what amounts to a civil war spreading across the nation.
Would you be outraged, and incensed, if it were gays being denied service? Blacks? Asians?
The talking heads mean exactly what they say, when they call for "resistance" and "fighting in the streets". They are instigating all the worst, intentionally.
I gave GP an additional "insightful" mod, because he is insightful.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 02 2019, @05:42PM (1 child)
"Be nice to us or we'll murder you!!"
Mmmhhmmmm, nice freedom values you're promoting.
Runaway is the true fascist as we long suspected. And lawl at handled gracefully, wtf bizarro world you living in Mr. Thinskin?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 02 2019, @07:05PM
Well, if you're too stupid to understand what is written, there is no point in arguing with you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 03 2019, @04:41AM (10 children)
"Be nice to me and my brown shirt buddies, or things could quickly turn ugly"? Wow. This is low, even by your standards.
Actually, that has already happened, more than once. (No, I'm not going to google it for you. You can still operate your keyboard with your thumbs, even while you jerk off here on SN.)
Again, this has already happened. Yes, it even continues to this day. (Again, you can do your own damn google search just as much as anybody else.)
Haven't heard of it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is going on. Considering all of that, the screams howls of outrage from the alt-right come across as rather hollow, frankly.
I always post as AC, so I have no mod points to give out. But if I did, I would be more than happy to downmod you as a gibbering idiot.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday November 03 2019, @05:01AM (9 children)
To summaraize your lengthy post:
You don't give a damn about justice, you want vengeance for things that have happened over the past ten years, hundred years, even thousand years.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 03 2019, @07:02AM (8 children)
Oh, dear me! People don't approve of my political views! Help! I'm being oppressed!</sarcasm>
You are shitty at reading comprehension. First, we are not just talking about injustices that happened "tens, hundreds, or even thousands" of years ago. We are talking about discrimination that gays, blacks, etc. are facing even to this very day! When you start caring about that, I might start giving a damn about MAGA hat wearers facing the disapproval of their neighbors. And just to make this crystal clear for you, MAGA hat wearers can easily take off their hats to conceal their identity; blacks and asians can't quite so easily change their skin color. It looks to me like what you really object to is that your alt-right buddies are being called out on their odious views and the policies they support.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday November 03 2019, @07:31AM (7 children)
My advice? Get the Dems out of their identity politics mode, and things will improve almost immediately. I'm perfectly happy to "reach down" and help another man up, out of abject poverty. I'm not willing to join him in poverty. I'm happy to "give a guy a break" if he needs it, and wants it. I'm not willing to join him in misery.
All of this identity politics bullshit is designed to take something from the white hetero male - Christian or not - and none of it is designed to actually improve people's lives.
A famous black guy said it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3cGfrExozQ [youtube.com]
Seriously, just stop talking about it all the time. I can (and have) walked out on a job site, met a bunch of strangers, and worked with them all day long. They are identified as Superintendant, Foreman, Carpenter 1 through whatever, Carpenter's Helpers 1 through whatever, Equipment Operator 1 through whatever, Laborers 1 through whatever. Hard hats help - you meet these guys in their work "uniforms". Meeting any or all of them in street clothes, you often times fail to recognize them. As time passes, you learn their names, you realize that the Super is Mexican, the Foreman is Cajun, etc etc. We don't talk about race. We talk about THE JOB. If the word "black" is used, it is descriptive, as in, "One of the carpenters sent me to get his level from the tool trailer, the short black guy." The guy in the tool trailer responds with, "You mean Anthony?" "Yeah, Anthony needs his 8 foot level."
Help a fellow man up, stop trying to pull other men down. It is the Social Justice Warriors and their ilk who are holding people down. You intentionally IDENTIFY every one who is "different", and try to punish white people for that difference.
Gay violence? Maybe you should consider changing your search terms, and you'll find articles like this one - https://americansfortruth.com/issues/homosexual-hate/victims-of-homosexual-murderers/ [americansfortruth.com] Gays aren't always the innocent victims, after all. Sometimes, they are the monsters. You won't find any demographic that has no monsters in it's midst. Gay monsters are rare, you say? Statistically speaking, gays are relatively rare, so, yes, gay monsters are going to be rare. But gays aren't special - statistically, they harbor as many lowlife scum as hetero white males.
Get over it, and stop defining people based on their color, gender, orientation, or whatever.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 03 2019, @05:27PM (1 child)
Idiot, projection is a bad tactic when you are being called out for supporting bigotry.
You're just another delicate snowflake melting under the light of truth.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday November 03 2019, @06:35PM
Let me show you some projection - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBxZGWCdgs [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @12:53AM (2 children)
As a white hetero Christian male, I object to you trying to co-opt me as the poster boy for your misbegotten cause. YOU ARE FAR LESS OPPRESSED THAN YOU SUPPOSE, DIMWIT!!!
And what the hell is this non sequitur doing here?!? Who is punishing white males for the sole reason of being "different"? We were talking about various minority groups facing discrimination. It is the action of some alt-right types which is getting most of the loud disapproval. And, it pains me to admit this, but a lot of this BS is coming from white hetero "Christian" males. Just stop looking for new and inventive ways of being mean to minorities. And at the very least, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT USE ME AS THE (supposedly oppressed) POSTER BOY FOR YOUR CRUSADE!!!! I object to being shoe-horned into that role.
For the record, I have no interest in "defining people based on their color, gender, orientation, or whatever". Rather, I am calling out deplorable policies and political tactics that seem to have discrimination against and silencing of various minority groups as their main intent. When that stops I will likely quickly "get over it".
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Monday November 04 2019, @05:29AM (1 child)
You object to being shoehorned into a role? Alright then, stop all your liberal friends from shoehorning me into some kind of role. I'm not the oppressor.
Uh-huh. And, not once on SN have I ever voiced an opinion against such tactics? I've never once suggested that Prison for Profit is evil? I've never suggested that Stop and Frisk in NYC is evil? I've never once mentioned Driving While Black? And, remember, I've often pointed out that most of this oppression takes place in liberal cities and states.
I really don't care what you object to. It is YOUR PARTY, and YOUR AGENDA that oppresses most minorities, and especially blacks. Liberals simply freak out when they think of a black man legally owning a weapon. Their first reaction to a black man and a gun, is to shoot. THOSE COPS WHO ACTUALLY DO THE SHOOTING ARE ENFORCING LIBERAL LAW! Conservatives, rednecks, hillbillies, threepers, oathkeepers, preppers, and a whole lot more insist that ALL AMERICANS have the right to keep and bear arms. But, your do-gooders in Washington, D.C. want to take all of our guns. Every presidential hopeful on your side has made outrageous statements about taking away our guns. They have already succeeded in taking the black man's guns, and now they want to take ours so they can oppress all the rest of us.
I've got things I'd like to do with a shoehorn, since you've mentioned it. All of them painful to liberals and progessives.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @05:18PM
Don't make so many assumptions. I am not what you think I am. You seem to think I am a liberal progressive. I'm not. I currently have no political party affiliation. In fact, about ten years ago I was registered Republican while living in Arizona. I'm also a Christian (somewhat) conservative. I used to attach the evangelical label to that but these days I am shying away from it because some loud mouths have co-opted that label to turn it into new and inventive ways to take away rights from various other non-hetero, non-white, non-Christian folks. And your brandishing of a shoe horn doesn't scare me; if anything, it just convinces me even more that wild-eyed gun-nutters like you really do need to be disarmed for the safety of everyone (including you). Next time, try to be less of a shitty person.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @11:13PM (1 child)
Your sin number 1: You think you are REACHING DOWN to PICK THEM UP. Not your job or your judgment call, dude. Best thing you can do is make them equal to you. And it ain't done by looking down on minorities.
Your sin number 2: You think that because you have a Cajun or Black friend this qualifies you to know what your Black friend actually has experienced in life. And just because you don't care - and you probably don't and you're not trying to be a bad guy, still doesn't mean that you might not be understanding the racist attitudes you exude because you don't know differently. Nor does it mean that they're seeing you as Mr. Nice White Man, or maybe they are. Point is you don't know what you think you do.
Your sin number 3: Yes, gay people are people. They are a minority to begin with. So aberrant behavior occurs. (so long as you do not regard being homosexual as an aberance, a delusion very many people still hold to today and it has only been since 1974 that being gay has not been directly codable as deviant psychologic behavior).
Stop fucking thinking you know jack shit about any of these things because you have read a fucking polemic web site, OK?
Oh, and rape is about violence and getting sexual release through violence. Whether heterosexual or homosexually done... actually same drives go on there as far as anyone can tell. So it ain't about the sex, even. It's about violence. And fuck off for thinking anyone else thinks different.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday November 05 2019, @12:23AM
If your sin number 1 is really a sin, I'll be happy to answer for it, rather than the liberal sin of thinking "dem niggas is stupid!"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 01 2019, @07:56PM (2 children)
For now, the partisan whistleblower at the center of this is refusing to testify. Another nothingburger.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Friday November 01 2019, @09:00PM (1 child)
For now, every single thing we know the whistleblower would have testified to has been released into the public, so there is no need for the whistleblower's testimony any longer.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04 2019, @01:03AM
And the coup de gras is that it now appears that the whistle blower is willing to answer written questions from Republicans. [cnn.com] I just love watching mendacious politicians getting hoisted on their own petard; it fills me with glee. Any bets on what Republicans' next move will be?
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Friday November 01 2019, @08:59PM (2 children)
When the alleged victim is still completely dependent upon the good will of the alleged perpetrator one might well disregard a voiced denial and instead look at the evidence that a 'favor' was asked for in the context of requesting a purchase of military armament and withheld aid funds. Or, another way: If I ask you to shoot someone should the prosecutor not care that you come out and say you'd have done the killing anyway?
This sig for rent.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 02 2019, @05:09AM (1 child)
So in other words we should simply disregard what all involved parties say and just jump to your own conclusion based on unspoken words? Don't you see this is literally how things like the Witch Trials happened.
- "No sir, I am not a witch and did not cast a spell on this person."
- "No sir, I don't feel like she is a witch nor has there been any sort of a spell cast on me."
- "Thank you, this court has taken your testimony into consideration. We've now decided. The witch must be casting a spell on the poor soul to make him lie. BURN THE WITCH!!"
It's quite terrifying that people are so quick to throw all logic and evidentiary standards to the wind when it suits their needs. It emphasizes that much of our modern civility has not been because of any sort of institution or system of laws, but through things that were much more organic. That's good and bad. Good since it emphasizes the inherent goodness we have, but bad because it should those organic factors start to fade - so might our civility.
As always the one thing I'd add here is that I think a lot of this modern stupidity is just being driven by the internet. Take your average lefty, take your average righty, and they'd get along perfectly fine. It's only when the media, on both sides, is claiming that the opposition is the embodiment of Lucifer himself that we lose our minds and start acting like monkeys.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 03 2019, @04:30AM
And it's quite terrifying (to me) that you suck so much at elementary logic. No, I'm not going to bother to deconstruct your "witch trial" analogy for you. Do your own God damn homework, chuckles!
Indeed. My take: you should have studied harder in school, rather than spend so much time on the internet. Also, it would probably do wonders for your perspective to get out into the real world once in a while. Just sayin'.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 03 2019, @02:08AM
I'm coming to a similar conclusion (also a liberal) with respect to Trump. For me, it has been the way the media has hounded him. To back up a bit, I caucused for Bernie Sanders all the way to the State convention in 2016. Being a Bernie supporter made me very aware of how the media was 100% on Hillary's side -- like that day the Washington Post ran 16 negative Bernie stories in 16 hours. I voted in 2016, but I voted 3d party because nothing could make me vote for a murdering $epithet like HRC.
Since the election, I've seen the media do nothing but negative press on Trump. Just wall-to-wall negativity. I also watched how Obama got treated in the press despite extending and embracing GWB policy -- Obama was an epic disappointment from a liberal policy perspective and yet the press lionizes him.
So yeah -- I see it as fake news. It fucking is. It's propaganda. And the Democrats -- what a bunch war loving wall street fellating turds. Given the amount of disgust I feel for BOTH the DNC and the MSM, the only logical choice is to vote in a way that kicks them both in nads. And that means voting for Trump. And let's be honest here -- unlike Obama, Trump has not gotten us into any new wars. It would be good if he got us out of some (and don't give me that shit about Obama and Iraq -- he left on GWB's timetable after Iraq refused to extend SOFA -- he tried to extend the war, failed, and declared himself a peacnik), but not getting into more wars is something at least, and something I wouldn't trust the Democrats to avoid.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Sunday November 03 2019, @11:22PM
It's not uncommon for potential witnesses, including a victim to be reluctant to say anything bad about the defendant when they fear retaliation.