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The deadline of yet another, and perhaps the most insidious, element of the post-9/11 initiatives (a partial list of which includes the establishment of the Transportation Security Agency, the Department of Homeland Security, and a never-ending international war against a nebulously-defined, noncorporeal enemy, "terror") is less than one year from coming to fruition. Beginning no later than October 1, 2020, citizens of all US states and territories will be required to have a Real ID compliant card or US passport to board a commercial plane or enter a Federal government facility. Pundits citing the inevitability of what amounts to a national ID card have, regrettably, been vindicated.
https://www.aier.org/article/while-you-slept-government-created-internal-passports/
(Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday November 06 2019, @04:53AM (25 children)
Because we have this funny notion that the government works for us and not the other way around, so it's none of their fucking business who we are unless there's a warrant out for us.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @05:03AM (10 children)
You might have realized (still waiting for Trump to get it) the govt does not work for you personally. If your countrymen decide it's best for "the country" to give you a lobotomy then you will get one - a nice one probably. You'll be bakc wearing the red hat the next day.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday November 06 2019, @03:40PM (9 children)
Um, no legal nor political science expert here, but USA is a republic, not a democracy, in spite of what is commonly said even by major political figures. Read older political works, speeches, etc.- they always talk about "our republic".
Sometimes I wish USA was more of a democracy, and we occasionally have referendums. But sometimes I think it goes very wrong. Here's an example of where I wish we did not allow the public to decide:
I read where yesterday Pennsylvania had a referendum about "victim rights" which passed overwhelmingly. Most of the provisions seem obvious, and I'm surprised they weren't already in place.
But one provision seems very contrary to "due process": the accused no longer has the right to "discovery". So if someone accuses you of something you did not do, you have no opportunity to prepare a defense. You have to guess what evidence they may have, even if it's flawed, fraudulent, or just plain wrong, and you have to hope you've guessed correctly, and/or that you and/or your attorney are quick enough to figure out and defend it in oral argument (court).
So now more innocent people will be thrown in already cruel and overcrowded prisons, and they'll rot there while hoping for an appeal.
Point is: general public often vote on emotion. That referendum should never have passed. It further chips away at "innocent until proven guilty".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @04:23PM (1 child)
A nation being a "republic" simply means that the head of state is not a monarch. The United States has an elected head of state called the President of the United States, so indeed it is a republic. It is also a democracy due to the election bit.
Of course the older speeches from the founders made a big deal about "our republic", because they were Seriously Pissed™ at the British monarchy and wanted nothing whatsoever to do with it.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday November 06 2019, @07:27PM
Agreed, except, again no expert, but I thought "republic" meant we have representatives (and senators), rather than "direct" democracy.
And in USA case, the representatives are "democratically elected"*.
*Is there any other kind of election? OK, maybe one where the already in place officials elect new ones?
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday November 06 2019, @06:57PM (3 children)
And one has the right to challenge the law in the judiciary. If it indeed removes discovery, then it will be a due process violation and it is only a matter of time until it is struck down. Anyone convicted in the interim where the law change may have played a factor will be turned loose once the law is overturned.
Now if it were nothing but a republic (or a pure democracy) then there could be no judicial review. So maybe it's best that we have the system we do.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday November 06 2019, @07:30PM (2 children)
Well stated. I'm always worried when I hear of laws that remove basic rights, due process, etc. I don't like that the police will drag someone away in handcuffs solely on one person's say-so, for example. You've given me some hope, thank you.
(Score: 2) by Nobuddy on Thursday November 07 2019, @03:22PM (1 child)
Gitmo.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Saturday November 09 2019, @11:06PM
Aaaaand, right back to depressed about the govt.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Reziac on Thursday November 07 2019, @03:09AM (2 children)
In the 28 years I voted in California, a state with many ballot referendums -- I saw exactly two that were not either destructive of liberty or functionally a tax hike to give money to some special interest. Yet about half of these passed. Most voters vote with their feelz, and are easily swayed by mudslinging (not so much by hard cold facts).
So, yeah.. I thought power-to-the-people via referendum was a dandy idea... until I saw it in action, over and over and over.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday November 07 2019, @03:35AM (1 child)
> Most voters vote with their feelz, and are easily swayed by mudslinging (not so much by hard cold facts).
Yup. Sad but true. "Never let the facts get in the way of a good (news) story."
"Popular Misconception" drives much of society's thinking and voting. People are too quick to believe what they hear in the news- they should be more skeptical. We need more Rosanne Rosanadana newscasters.
In the news recently: CA proposition 47, which has resulted in a huge upswing in crimes of theft, shoplifting, etc. Brilliant!
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday November 07 2019, @04:51AM
Apparently the next natural step for a fullblown liberal democracy is to vote yourself into chaos.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by captain normal on Wednesday November 06 2019, @05:13AM
"...it's none of their fucking business who we are or where we are going", unless there's a warrant issued for us.
TFTFY.
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts"- --Daniel Patrick Moynihan--
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday November 06 2019, @05:21AM (10 children)
FTFY
For a govt that actually work for their citizens, take the Norway's govt as an example, with impressive results to show [wikipedia.org].
Ah, yes, by the by, the Norway govt do require their citizens identify themselves with a Norwegian identification number [skatteetaten.no] to access their services. This is to show that "national id" and "who's working for whom" are orthogonal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @05:53AM (3 children)
But I bet you can't stay in Norway without a national ID so long that your kids (who also don't have an ID) are applying to college and wondering if they'll get deported to a country where they don't even speak the language. It's almost like the USA doesn't bother to enforce some laws. No. Wait. It's exactly like that.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday November 06 2019, @06:16AM (2 children)
And...?
No, really, it's a genuine question: what exactly is your point?
I can see many possible interpretations and I have this feeling there may be others that I don't see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by RS3 on Wednesday November 06 2019, @04:45PM
By definition ACs just think it's kewl to write stuff in a little box, click "Submit", and see it published online. Woe dude, awesome! The usefulness of the content is hit-or-miss.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Thursday November 07 2019, @12:03AM
AC may be hinting that there are extra problems when the rules change mid-stream, especially when no provisions are made for that.
For example, getting a "real ID" can be quite a problem if you don't already have an ID. Many don't because it wasn't required at one time if you didn't drive.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Arik on Wednesday November 06 2019, @07:08AM (5 children)
You wouldn't get the same results with the same system in the USA, or in AU for that matter.
While I would love to import the cultural properties that help Norway here, I still wouldn't want to import their system.
Having all the people counted and registered and collated and prepared for the government makes things a little more efficient, when the government is good. When it goes bad? Either domestic tyranny, or an invasion, or a 'color revolution' and boom all that information is now in the wrong hands.
In this day and age, it's likely the russian mob already has it for sale.
A little inefficiency is a price worth paying to avoid that.
But, in our context in the USA, I don't think it's even a trade off. The current system is more than sufficient. There is no legitimate reason to 'upgrade' it - but many nefarious ones.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday November 06 2019, @02:39PM (4 children)
Interestingly, Norway is number 6 in military spending per capita which makes it number two right after the US if we discount crazy governments. https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-who-spend-the-most-on-military-per-capita.html [worldatlas.com]
Does liberal correlates with militarized?
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Arik on Wednesday November 06 2019, @05:45PM (3 children)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday November 06 2019, @10:53PM (2 children)
I seriously doubt they can resist such powers with any level of military. If they do take it seriously, they should have develop and deploy nuclear weapons. Therefore I suspect they use the power to keep the population in check. Not directly, mind you, but by using propaganda: "join the army or else" type.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 06 2019, @11:35PM
You would probably be surprised if you read about the Winter War - Finland fought off Russia (and GB, but I think the other Allied left them alone). It's not impossible.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Thursday November 07 2019, @05:12AM
The point is not to make it utterly impossible to be conquered, of course. They're quite aware they can't do that. They've been conquered many times - most recently by Germany in WWII.
The point is to make sure that any invasion will cost more than it is worth. It's deterrence.
And since they joined NATO, that's another level to it as well. They assume that NATO would come to their defense - but not that their allies are permanently on standby ready to scramble at a moments notice. So in the case of invasion, they'd be hoping they only need to hold out a relatively short time before allies start showing up.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 3, Touché) by darkfeline on Thursday November 07 2019, @06:26AM (1 child)
If you don't have ID, how does the government know it's working for you? You may not even be a citizen, in which case the government definitely isn't/shouldn't be working for you.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 07 2019, @11:38PM
Damn, that was a pretty good one. I tip my hat to you good sir or madam.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.