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Amazon fails to unseat pro-tax city council members in Seattle
Amazon has suffered a setback in its own backyard as several candidates for Seattle's City Council won election despite a $1.5 million campaign by business groups to defeat them. That included Kshama Sawant, an incumbent and socialist who has been a thorn in Amazon's side in recent years. The vote was held last Tuesday, but the results only became clear in recent days.
The result is significant for Amazon because last year Seattle's city council passed a $275 per employee tax on large employers. Amazon, Starbucks, and other large Seattle businesses blasted the law and funded a ballot measure to overturn it. Facing the threat of having their law overturned by voters, the city council itself repealed the measure a month after it passed.
If business groups had defeated pro-tax candidates in last week's election, it would have made the city council very reluctant to consider taxing employers again. Instead, the election results have emboldened supporters of an "Amazon tax."
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @11:38PM (19 children)
Amazon raises prices for delivery to Seattle addresses by 25%... next election the disgruntled voters throw the commie councilors out on their pinko butts.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday November 13 2019, @12:59AM (18 children)
Of course there is a better solution than the one you have trollfully put forward.
That is for the cost of running Seattle could be footed in part by the fabulously wealthy corporations that take advantage of the benefits of having their headquarters there.
Of course, when Mr. Bezos decides to ask a fellow billionaire to run for president because he is worried about what some of the Democrat candidates are proposing, you might like to start asking yourself whose interests he has at heart.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday November 13 2019, @01:10AM (16 children)
The tax, as described, doesn't sound right to me. $275/head for all employees who work in the city? Mmmm - don't like. It ought to be income based, somehow, IMO, with higher tax brackets paying more.
But, how much did Amazon pay in taxes, last year? Are they pulling their fair share of the load? I figure not, based on all the stories I've read about corporations NOT paying taxes. Corporations really ought to be paying a lot more infrastructure costs than they do. No government at any level is bashful about taxing the trucking industry. They shouldn't be bashful about taxing other industries either. Just keep the taxes rational, and don't tax the company into bankruptcy FFS! (As if, right? This IS Amazon under discussion!)
(Score: 4, Interesting) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday November 13 2019, @01:36AM (11 children)
I suppose I assumed that cities are not able to impose income taxes, so they have to use sales taxes and the like to pay for services?
I might be wrong, as I know your tax system can be quite complicated, what with all the various levels of government you have.
However, yes. Amazon don't see the need to chip in for their share of the costs of running a modern country. They have that in common with lots of big corporations.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday November 13 2019, @01:47AM (9 children)
I don't think cities can impose an income tax. But whether that be so, or not, there are ways around it. My early work life after leaving school saw "school tax" and "employment tax" taken out of my paycheck. I've never seen either of those, since moving away from my home state of Pennsylvania. Neither of those was a large sum (actually, my paycheck was no large sum, LOL) but both were divided between the city and the county. Different states, counties, and cities have different tax schemes, but they all pretty much accomplish the same thing. And, all schemes can be "targeted" toward the wealthier residents, or toward the general public.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday November 13 2019, @02:23AM
I have never heard of a "school tax" before, but I suppose in a world where there have been window taxes, and beard taxes anything is possible.
I'll make the scruffy buggers shave! [wikipedia.org]
That is true. Unfortunately the wealthy tend to have the means to minimise their share of many schemes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @02:49AM (4 children)
Cities may impose income tax in the USA, but most don't.
(Score: 2) by Booga1 on Wednesday November 13 2019, @03:59AM (3 children)
Just FYI regarding Seattle, WA. There is no Washington income tax allowed.
https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=36.65.030 [wa.gov]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @04:18AM (1 child)
Taxable income is gross income, not net income. Did you have a point to make, or are you blissfully ignorant of how income tax works?
(Score: 2) by Booga1 on Wednesday November 13 2019, @10:17PM
Yeah, here's the proof that the judges have ruled otherwise: http://www.courts.wa.gov/opinions/pdf/754238.pdf [wa.gov]
For easier digestion: https://www.washingtonpolicy.org/publications/detail/local-income-taxes-are-illegal-in-washington-state [washingtonpolicy.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @04:49AM
And there is no sales tax in Montana.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @03:30AM (1 child)
Pennsylvania had a fucking "occupation tax", flat at $10/person/year. For a tax that just served as a counter, it took several hours as a minimum wage peon to pay for.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday November 13 2019, @02:53PM
Don't know when that was, but I know for certain that I paid more than $10/year. About a dollar a week, and a bit more when I worked overtime. At a guess, I paid somewhere around $70, possibly a bit more for the year. As I said, it wasn't much, but it was there.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @05:20AM
Depends on the state. In my state, the state specifically reserves the ability to impose capitation, sales, excise, and income tax to itself. The local governments can only charge taxes authorized by the state (mostly property tax) and collect certain state taxes on behalf of the state, in exchange for some of the proceeds.
However, in other states, some do impose income taxes, payroll taxes, dividend taxes, etc. on the city or other local governmental level.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @03:24AM
As usual in the US, it depends on the state.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @06:07AM (3 children)
Seattle is in Washington.
Washington outlaws (long story, but if you want to read the court cases, they're available) income tax and it would take a constitutional amendment to allow it. The last time various bigwigs tried to do this, it got smacked down pretty hard.
Washington mostly relies upon, as far as the average Joe is concerned, property tax and sales tax. There are additional things like car tab taxes and so on, blahblahblah (they're pretty creative about levying taxes) but income taxes aren't on the list.
Amazon already pays property tax. Turns out, Amazon owns a lot of property in and around Seattle. Amazon's a pretty big taxpayer in Seattle; a fact that was pointed out when they wanted to pass the Amazon tax, and kept running their mouths about how Amazon doesn't pay tax. Turns out, this is complete hogwash.
Amazon also collects sales tax for a lot of people around the state, including all those fancy people in Seattle, who take advantage of their special high speed services and so on. Seattle makes a lot of money off Amazon's economic activities. Seattle also makes a hell of a lot of money off all the Amazon employees, who spend a lot of money in and around Seattle.
All those activists who breathe into paper bags while screaming about Amazon not contributing seem to ignore what would happen to Seattle's tax base without Amazon, but I digress.
As for the per-head tax, besides the fact that it's flat, rather than progressive, it's stupid anyway because the vast majority of Amazon employees are way, way beyond any proposed minimum wage, in Seattle (and the others have no bearing on this situation).
So, yeah, Amazon are pulling the load, and in fact can't get out of it precisely because of how taxes are structured there. In fact, as part of the whole head tax discussion, one of the things that they did was to hit the Pause button on all their construction projects in Seattle, on the logic that if they were going to pay an extra stupid tax specifically made to stick it to them, they were going to stop expanding in Seattle.
Shocking, I know. What bastards. Not lining up to be taxed extra when they have other options right there in front of them. But I digress ...
The people who stood up in front of the council to tell them to cut that shit out? Included trade union reps, spelling out in small, easily digestible words that the city council was fucking things up for the union carpenters, and sheet metal workers, and welders, and pilebucks, and all the rest of them. That's right, the famous socialist boogie-person of the Seattle city council actually had the unions telling her she had fucked up.
And in case you're wondering, Seattle has a high city sales tax, piled on top of a high county sales tax, piled on top of the state sales tax. It's just plain more expensive to buy things in Seattle, which is why if you actually go there, you find quite a lot of businesses sitting juuuuuust outside the reach of greedier taxing authorities. But not Amazon. They're right there in downtown, and are one of the major forces behind economic activity there. This is why there was so much horror when Amazon went looking for HQ 2.0. It's kind of like when Boeing had had enough of the shenanigans of the union in Washington and went shopping around. The heartache and misery had to be heard to be believed, while the workers in pretty much every other industry said: "You idiots, you did it to yourselves."
Of course, then we had things like NYC being all lined up and ready to welcome Amazon, until Ocasio-Cortez flaps her yap about how evil Amazon is, and Amazon turns on their heel and goes looking elsewhere. Why? Because they're evil? No, because they've seen that movie before and they know how it ends.
Rich companies, like rich people, have options. Seattle's city council learned that lesson, not very long ago, then promptly forgot it. If we're very, very lucky, they will actually drive Amazon out of Seattle, along with Adobe, Tableau and others. Let Portland pick them up.
Portland's nice. It has more sunshine. Go there, guys, I'm sure they'd never tax you hard.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @04:22PM
The "left" is now ivory tower dreamers and social justice warriors.
The republicans used to give the working class at least some religious comfort, with President Trump workers finally have someone defending their economic interests.
The democrats meanwhile continue their descent into madness. They can't win when only big city elites and big city welfare dependents vote for them.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday November 13 2019, @07:17PM (1 child)
You spend a lot of time in your 'Amazon pays taxes' post talking about sales taxes which are definitely NOT paid by Amazon....
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 14 2019, @04:48PM
Didn't you hear about the Amazon online tax lawsuit? It was some years ago, but let me help you out:
Back in the day, Amazon (on the basis of some less-than-clear federal rules) did not collect tax. This resulted in a lot of complaints from bricks-and-mortar sellers who complained that it gave Amazon a de facto price advantage. It ended up in court, but the long story cut short is:
Today, Amazon collects, delivers, and pays sales tax. In fact, Amazon is very good at it. What's more, when they make purchases in the Seattle area (which, duh, they do, a lot) they pay Seattle's sales tax.
... why does this even need to be explained ....
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @06:47AM
The cost of Seattle is already being borne by quite a few large businesses there. This hasn't prevented the city from finding every hook and crook available to tax yet more people in more ways. Classic example, which shows precisely how many flaming shits they give for the little guy:
They want(ed) money for their vast, extremely expensive, and incompetently run transit plans. Remember, this is the city that was supposed to have all its viaduct replacement tunnel project done long ago, and only recently actually tore down the more-or-less last of the viaduct itself.
But anyway, they needed more cash for more transit (they already have bus, light rail, tram, commuter rail, and the godforsaken monorail, as well as a substantial investment in bicycling, and chasing cars out) so they pushed hard for a regional car tab tax on the grounds that it would benefit the whole region.
Then, instead of making it a flat car tab rate, they based it on the price of the vehicle. Makes sense, right? So Bob the apprentice mason driving a second-hand Civic doesn't pay much. Makes sense, right? Right?
Too much sense. They based it instead on MSRP.
I mean, never mind depreciation. Never mind second-hand status. It was one of the biggest bait-and-switches pulled on an electorate in the interests of sticking it to the little guy that I think I can remember.
By avowed progressives. Socialists, even, some of them.
You can't make this shit up.