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posted by janrinok on Tuesday November 26 2019, @06:04AM   Printer-friendly
from the over-to-the-community! dept.

I need to install a new Linux/Gnu OS soon. The present one, Linux Mint (Mate) Debian edition no longer fills my needs. I run 4 screens with 3 X sessions. Mate worked great for this, then an update broke it to one screen. I tried Cinnamon but it won't even start on multiple X sessions. XFCE works but with some serious drawbacks although that may be caused by my current system. Enlightenment actually worked well until it started crashing and I had to restore the settings file. When it finally crashed so nothing got it to run again I gave up on it.

I need a OS with multimedia support, the ability to install programs that may not be in the repositories ( Mythtv ), and multi X screen support. I am also looking for a file manager that has something like Gnome scripts. I have fair command line skills. I presently have Nvidia cards but I will go shopping if I have to. I might try Xinerama but I usually watch one screen while switching the other 2's desktops. Also not having a menu on all screens would be a pain.


Original Submission

 
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  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 26 2019, @06:45AM (14 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 26 2019, @06:45AM (#924813)

    https://www.howtogeek.com/265900/everything-you-can-do-with-windows-10s-new-bash-shell/ [howtogeek.com]

    Seriously, it seems to me that every time Microsoft puts out a crappy release the Desktop Linux saboteurs make Desktop Linux even crappier...

    This doesn't really sound better than MS Windows does it?:

    Mate worked great for this, then an update broke it to one screen. I tried Cinnamon but it won't even start on multiple X sessions.

    When it finally crashed so nothing got it to run again I gave up on it.

    Anyone gonna blame the submitter for this?

    Sadly for desktop UIs there doesn't seem to be much real progress in more than half a century: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJDv-zdhzMY [youtube.com]

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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by maxwell demon on Tuesday November 26 2019, @06:56AM (12 children)

    by maxwell demon (1608) on Tuesday November 26 2019, @06:56AM (#924816) Journal

    Sadly for desktop UIs there doesn't seem to be much real progress in more than half a century

    If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

    --
    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    • (Score: 2) by choose another one on Tuesday November 26 2019, @08:07AM (1 child)

      by choose another one (515) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 26 2019, @08:07AM (#924836)

      > If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

      So we really are going to blame the submitter for fixing it ?

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by maxwell demon on Tuesday November 26 2019, @08:21AM

        by maxwell demon (1608) on Tuesday November 26 2019, @08:21AM (#924838) Journal

        As usual in such discussions, my statement referred to the quote directly preceding it. In this case I quoted you complaining about the lack of “real progress” in UIs.

        Of course, the Mint update has broken things for the OP. Obviously because the maintainers changed something; if nothing had changed, nothing had broken. A change which they probably considered progress, otherwise why would they have changed it?

        --
        The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday November 26 2019, @02:28PM

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 26 2019, @02:28PM (#924913) Journal

      If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

      All engineers know: If it ain't broke, then fix it 'till it is!

      --
      People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by bradley13 on Tuesday November 26 2019, @02:52PM (4 children)

      by bradley13 (3053) on Tuesday November 26 2019, @02:52PM (#924921) Homepage Journal

      If it ain't broken, don't fix it."

      This. This truly is the curse of computing. WinXP was a decent system, so they had to "improve" it with Vista. Win7 was solid, so they had to "improve" it with Win8, and then with the spyware that is Win10. Linux: Gnome 2 was stable and well-liked, so they improved it. The same happened with KDE. We won't mention Unity. MS Office and the addition of the "ribbon". The list is basically endless...

      Some improvements do make sense, of course. The problem arises when programmers decide to replace perfectly functional components for no good reason, that problems mostly occur. FWIW this seems to mostly be a frontend/UX problem. It is relatively rare to have a backend component massively modified for no perceptible gain. UI components, on the other hand, seem to attract people who "know better". They seemingly don't care that their brainwave will mess up thousands or even millions of users who are familiar with the old UI.

      --
      Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Freeman on Tuesday November 26 2019, @05:25PM (2 children)

        by Freeman (732) on Tuesday November 26 2019, @05:25PM (#924991) Journal

        All in favor of sending all UI developers to a bradley13 conference, raise their hands. Either that or put him in charge of the "re-education" camp for UI devs . . .

        --
        Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by NickM on Tuesday November 26 2019, @11:25PM (1 child)

          by NickM (2867) on Tuesday November 26 2019, @11:25PM (#925151) Journal
          They called themself UX devs nowadays. A propose the following test, if you call them UI devs and they dont whine, they are safe but if they complain about the title, off to the reeducation camp !
          --
          I a master of typographic, grammatical and miscellaneous errors !
          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Freeman on Tuesday November 26 2019, @11:34PM

            by Freeman (732) on Tuesday November 26 2019, @11:34PM (#925160) Journal

            Sounds good to me, whatever might help the incessant repositioning of key features.

            --
            Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
      • (Score: 3, Touché) by maxwell demon on Tuesday November 26 2019, @07:02PM

        by maxwell demon (1608) on Tuesday November 26 2019, @07:02PM (#925019) Journal

        It is relatively rare to have a backend component massively modified for no perceptible gain.

        Are you sure? How many Linux system components have been replaced by systemd components?

        --
        The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by ilsa on Tuesday November 26 2019, @04:24PM (3 children)

      by ilsa (6082) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 26 2019, @04:24PM (#924967)

      The problem is that they *are* broken. Or at least, they are horribly fragile and utterly non-robust.

      Everyone is so concerned about trivial nonsense like customizability and themes and other garbage, and let the truly valuable stuff get sidelined. Like robust and easy to use multi-monitor support, reliable and secure support for remote desktop capability for remote users, access to system settings, etc, and most importantly, always provide a way out in case something goes wrong. (Looking at you KDE)

      Windows is a steaming pile for a great variety of reasons, but one thing you cannot say is that the GUI isn't robust. Thinking that it's reasonable for users to have to make changes to their xorg config, or to start playing around with their ~/.Xsession file is a completely unreasonable expectation and Linux will never break out of niche markets until developers grasp the idea that robustness counts for more than being able to choose how thick your window borders are.

      • (Score: 1, Redundant) by maxwell demon on Tuesday November 26 2019, @07:06PM (2 children)

        by maxwell demon (1608) on Tuesday November 26 2019, @07:06PM (#925021) Journal

        Like robust and easy to use multi-monitor support

        Did you read the submission? I don't know what you consider robust multi-monitor support, but things breaking on update is not what I consider robust.

        --
        The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by ilsa on Tuesday November 26 2019, @07:28PM (1 child)

          by ilsa (6082) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 26 2019, @07:28PM (#925030)

          That was my point. Too much time is spent on nonsense like pretty themes and backgrounds, and not enough is spent on providing a solid experience. And then everyone wonders why Linux is a miserable failure as a general purpose desktop OS.

          • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Reziac on Wednesday November 27 2019, @03:19AM

            by Reziac (2489) on Wednesday November 27 2019, @03:19AM (#925224) Homepage

            I have this very complaint across the board. All sorts of eye candy everywhere (or the inverse -- flat, white, and featureless: Brutalism for desktops); meanwhile basic usability settings are nowhere to be found. Frex, you can make the corners rounded and the window beautifully transparent, but you can't make the scrollbars big enough to grab if you have less than pixel-perfect accuracy. Oh, and let's not forget designing all the clickable controls to be so subtle and elegant that you almost can't see the damn things. AND STOP BREAKING OR REMOVING WHAT ALREADY WORKS!!!

            So, for the plaintively-wailing query... I don't know about multiple monitors, but 150 distros later I wound up with PCLinuxOS/KDE, because the fewest things didn't work or annoy me. Tho I do beat on Plasma until it more or less resembles WinXP, the interface I regard as the apex of everyday usability: Breeze Dark + Oxygen + Obsidian Coast + Plastik. It is not beautiful, but it doesn't hurt my eyes and I don't have to aim at shit like it's a FPS. And it does have an automated update widget, tho you do have to click "Update". Oh, and for the purists, no systemd. [Fedora/KDE came in second, but had more petty annoyances, plus I prefer rolling if I have a choice.]

            As to how 'heavy' a given DE is, someone on our forum ran a bunch of tests, and OOTB every DE came in between 260mb and 595mb; hardly a factor on tolerably modern systems.

            --
            And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
  • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday November 26 2019, @05:06PM

    by Gaaark (41) on Tuesday November 26 2019, @05:06PM (#924986) Journal

    Gah, with the way he speaks I expect him to ask me to be his neighbor or tell me to paint a happy little tree somewhere!

    I want what he's on! :)

    --
    --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---