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posted by
martyb
on Tuesday December 10 2019, @04:00PM
from the There-Is-No-Such-Thing-As-Climate-Change dept.
from the There-Is-No-Such-Thing-As-Climate-Change dept.
Australia is on fire. Again. Happens every year around this time, but this year is worse. A lot worse, with smoke and haze covering large parts of the eastern seaboard. The effect of the fires can be felt in New Zealand where the smoke is causing blood red sunsets. Meanwhile, the Prime Minister of Australia has briefly offered a prayer in support. The deadly fires have killed hundreds of drop bears while scourging the countryside across several states.
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Australia Burns Turning Sydney into Smog Covered Scene from Hell
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confess them to man and you will be laughed at.
-- Josh Billings
(Score: 3, Informative) by corey on Tuesday December 10 2019, @09:08PM (20 children)
Video of Sydney with the smoke yesterday:
https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-10/businesses-close-and-ferries-cancelled-as-hazardous-smoke-/11784578 [abc.net.au]
I heard it was 20x the hazardous levels in terms of air quality. Worse than any other city in the world.
I was talking to the my work office guys up there yesterday, they said almost everyone has been sneezing heaps, one has a throat infection caused by the smoke. And dozens of buildings in the city had their fire alarms set off, causing thousands of people to have to evacuate. It a huge strain on the fire services to respond to all the false alarms.
Here's how big the fires are:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/datablog/ng-interactive/2019/dec/07/how-big-are-the-fires-burning-on-the-east-coast-of-australia-interactive-map [theguardian.com]
It was a 60km (37mi for the American folk) fire front.
Experts are all linking it to climate change. Commenters here are not experts, just saying before you jump in and refute it. This scale of fire had never been seen before in Australia.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 10 2019, @10:52PM
Your colleague cannot have a throat infection caused by the smog. Exacerbated, perhaps, but the causative agent is a bacteria or virus.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday December 10 2019, @11:07PM (10 children)
Experts are also linking it to massive buildup of fuels in the areas affected. Given that never before seen scale of fire would have happened due to this fuel buildup, whether or not climate change happened, guess which experts should be the ones we listen to?
(Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Wednesday December 11 2019, @12:10AM (9 children)
[Citation needed]
No, seriously, put up or shut up, the latter being strongly recommended** ('cause the latest drought map [bom.gov.au] contradicts what you're saying).
---
** I can't stop you making a fool of yourself if that's what makes you feel better. So, I'm not even trying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 11 2019, @06:29AM (8 children)
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday December 12 2019, @02:10AM (7 children)
The linked don't provide any information as to the causes of current fires around Sydney.
I can't find any explanation on what the burning suppression between 1900 and 1950 has to do with the fires around Sydney in 2019.
At the best, I can take your assertion as a hypothesis, on the line of "Maybe those prescribed burnings haven't taken place and that is why the current fires are so fierce".
From the cited:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday December 12 2019, @03:45PM (6 children)
They provide information about a broader class of wildfires than just the present ones afflicting Sydney.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday December 12 2019, @09:01PM (1 child)
Without any warranty that the broader class of fires include the ones Sydney experiences now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday December 13 2019, @02:23PM
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday December 12 2019, @09:09PM (3 children)
FYI [smh.com.au]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday December 13 2019, @04:05AM (2 children)
Funny how the most extreme claims about who we should listen to come from the non-experts, isn't it?
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday December 13 2019, @05:03AM (1 child)
Funny how some suggest that a Fire and Rescue NSW commissioner for 13+ years [wikipedia.org] has no expertise. I wonder what are the credentials in regards with fires in NSW of those that make such suggestions?
(me, smiling politely and....)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday December 13 2019, @02:09PM
I have expertise too. And it too is not in climatology.
How about evidence?
(Score: 2) by Coward, Anonymous on Wednesday December 11 2019, @02:57AM (7 children)
But we should take your word for who the experts are? Maybe there are no experts, just a bunch of activists who are claiming to be experts.
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Wednesday December 11 2019, @06:54AM (6 children)
You've just summed up the organised deniers.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2) by Coward, Anonymous on Wednesday December 11 2019, @01:05PM (5 children)
In high-school I learned that "appeal to authority" is a logical mistake. That mistaken appeal is the whole basis for people who are marching on the street about CO2.
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Wednesday December 11 2019, @09:08PM (4 children)
Whether it's mistaken or not depends on the credentials of the authority.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday December 13 2019, @04:07AM (3 children)
If you're depending on credentials instead of logical argument, you are mistaken.
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Friday December 13 2019, @10:44AM (2 children)
If you're depending on a logical argument which has at least one fellatious premise you're mistaken.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday December 13 2019, @02:21PM (1 child)
But having said that, it still remains that argument from credentials is a logical house of cards. For starters, what are credentials? Who gets to decide which credentials are relevant? And why are credentials more relevant than evidence?
My take on this is that Australia is particularly resistant to climate change propaganda because of the large fossil fuels extraction industries it has. So any claims of climate change induced harm have to be sold particularly hard. I agree that there is probably some contribution to fire severity and damage from climate change. But climate change doesn't explain other effects like fuel build up, more buildings in harms way, the effectiveness of emergency response, or past large wildfires - several which are of similar scale to the present ones of the story.
There will always be big disasters, whether or not some sort of climate change is involved. The hard sell won't always be around.
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Friday December 13 2019, @09:21PM
Proven history in the field, ie qualifications (which may or may not include formal education); everybody, although not everybody understands what they're dealing with; they're not, but they do indicate whether the authority's interpretation of the evidence is credible.
That is, unfortunately, the case. The government is owned by big business.
One or two big fires probably aren't due to AGW. A trend of more common, unseasonal and severe fires over time probably is.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.