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posted by martyb on Tuesday January 14 2020, @08:00AM   Printer-friendly
from the editors-wanted dept.

The observant reader will notice that we have reduced the number of stories we post on weekdays from about 15 stories per day to about 13 stories per day. We would certainly like to continue with the higher rate, but we have been struggling to do so with current staff.

We try to post enough stories each day so that there is "something for everyone". Ultimately this site is for the community. It is also by the community; it does not run all by itself.

We Need Your Help

People's lives change. They move, get married, have health issues, change jobs, etc. All of these place additional demands on their spare time. SoylentNews is not immune to this; in fact we have experienced all of these. With less free time available, more work falls upon the other staff members — whose lives are already quite full.

What would help?

Volunteer! Have you ever thought about being an editor at SoylentNews?

You'll get to learn a super-sekret handshake, the passcode to enter our volcano-lair, and the admiration of your fellow Soylentils!

Right from the start, let me point out that we — SoylentNews — aim to be impartial. If you have an agenda that you would like to push or advocate (or denigrate) then skip to the next story.

On the other hand, not a great deal of time is needed. Even if you have only an hour or two per week that you could contribute, that would be greatly appreciated!

An earlier request for help summarized things nicely (slightly updated here):

Well we are all volunteers, so we contribute what we can, when we can, no one is expected to edit X stories/day (make your own hours). I would say a strong recommendation (maybe not requirement) is signing onto IRC once in a while (especially when editing) so one can communicate with the other editors. Editing a few stories a day, or even a few a week would be welcome. A typical submission takes me about 15-30 minutes to edit, usually on the longer side if I'm expanding or adding a balanced point of view without trying to put words into the mouth of the submitter. The rest is pretty much what you'd expect:

  • Opening up a story
  • Checking links
  • Checking basic grammar and spelling
  • Correcting wording
  • Expanding a weak submission (sometimes it's just a few links and a sentence or quote)
  • etc.

One also needs to:

How else could I help?

Nominate someone. Have you noticed someone who tends to compose well-written comments or journal entries? Think they might be a good fit? Please let us know!

How else could I help?

Submit a story! A well-written story that needs little editing takes a huge load off of the editorial staff. If just a few Soylentils submitted a story each day it would make a world of difference. Ideally, a story submission would be grammatically correct, have no spelling errors, be balanced and impartial, and be "publication ready". But even if your writing skills are not up to (or are even far from) that level, we are experienced at "cleaning things up", so do not let that keep you from making a story submission! If you see something tech-related that you think would be of interest to the community? Send it in!

How can you reach us?

Send an email to editors (at) soylentnews (dot) org. Or drop a message on our IRC (Internet Relay Chat) channel. Just issue the command "/join #editorial" and leave a message expressing your interest, along with your SoylentNews nickname, and someone will get back to you.

What's in it for me?

That is a good question. Speaking for myself, it started with my getting onto IRC and occasionally pointing out an error I'd seen in a story. Sometimes it would take a while before I could get the attention of an editor who could make the correction. I got frustrated. Finally, I suggested that if I were made an editor, I could fix things myself without having to track people down. Over the 5 ½ years since then, I have made mistakes... and learned how to own them, in writing, in front of all of you. I've developed a thicker "skin". I've made great friendships with people all around the world. The technical expertise on staff here is amazing; they've taught me so much. And, I hope, I've been able to teach them a thing or two, too.


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  • (Score: 4, Touché) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday January 14 2020, @03:20PM (37 children)

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday January 14 2020, @03:20PM (#943099) Journal

    Oh, horsehockey. Beware the Golden Mean fallacy. This site has been shifting hard authoritarian for years now. Remember, the Overton Window moves; what you think is "centrist" is a) not what the civilized world thinks is centrist and b) may change without you noticing it.

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
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  • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Tuesday January 14 2020, @04:13PM (4 children)

    by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 14 2020, @04:13PM (#943118) Journal

    This site has been shifting hard authoritarian for years now

    Do you mean in the content of the submissions, or views being expressed by the community in the comments? The editors are responsible for neither...

    ...or perhaps your position has been shifting in the opposite direction?

    We try to avoid stories that support any political view unless the content justifies it and it is relevant to the site's interests.

    • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday January 14 2020, @07:10PM

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Tuesday January 14 2020, @07:10PM (#943210) Journal

      When something like this makes it to the front page: House Deals Blow to Millions of Small Businesses by Passing Corporate Transparency Act [soylentnews.org]

      But the third President of the Unites States to ever be impeached, does not...

      Yeah, I think there's an argument for a rightward slant there.

    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday January 15 2020, @03:13AM (2 children)

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday January 15 2020, @03:13AM (#943426) Journal

      The Overton Window is moving, not me, and screw you sideways with the proverbial cactus for that lazy slur.

      You ever hear that saying about the hottest places in Hell being reserved for those who cling to selfish neutrality in times of moral crisis? Hope you're wearing your asbestos longjohns, asshole. You managed to utterly annihilate the last little bit of respect I had left for you with that post.

      --
      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Wednesday January 15 2020, @08:27AM (1 child)

        by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 15 2020, @08:27AM (#943510) Journal

        You ever hear that saying about the hottest places in Hell being reserved for those who cling to selfish neutrality in times of moral crisis?

        No. Next please...

        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday January 15 2020, @08:31AM

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday January 15 2020, @08:31AM (#943513) Journal

          Pity. You should keep abreast of these things. Don't say I didn't warn you...

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Tuesday January 14 2020, @07:42PM (10 children)

    by hemocyanin (186) on Tuesday January 14 2020, @07:42PM (#943224) Journal

    This site has been shifting hard authoritarian for years now.

    No. The left has been moving toward more authoritarian methods/policies for years and the election of Trump somehow exacerbated the authoritarian left to fight authoritarianship by upping their authoritarian game. This site has remained relatively stable while the world shifted around it.

    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday January 15 2020, @03:17AM (9 children)

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday January 15 2020, @03:17AM (#943428) Journal

      In other words, they've begun to realize that going high when the other guy goes low is a mug's game and that the only thing sociopaths respect is force? I don't like that path either, because I know damn well where it goes, but the "right" have no one to blame but themselves.

      --
      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by hemocyanin on Wednesday January 15 2020, @05:17PM (8 children)

        by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday January 15 2020, @05:17PM (#943679) Journal

        No. Today's left feels like 80 radical evangelicals, censorship, prudishness, shunning (cancel culture), self-righteousness, a sense of being culturally and intellectually infallibility, mean spirited, dogmatic. I can see now that this was budding pre-Trump, but Trump's election made the worst aspects blossom. Gone are the days of being concerned about the rights and dignity of all people and personally, I'm appalled.

        • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Wednesday January 15 2020, @05:17PM

          by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday January 15 2020, @05:17PM (#943680) Journal

          80=80s

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 15 2020, @08:09PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 15 2020, @08:09PM (#943750)

          "Gone are the days of being concerned about the rights and dignity of all people and personally, I'm appalled."

          Cause you're a disingenuous idiot, aka: typical republican, or republican lite-ertarian

          You complain about outrage culture and then go all outrage yourself. Projection, not just for theaters. Here, let me boil down conservatives to their worst members. Buncha racist literal Nazis who want to install fascism and murder brown people. Yup, that's every conservative ever. /s

          Still want to play the extremist game? I'll 100% take radical left over radical right, though regular left would be perfect. Universal healthcare, environmental regulation, proper wealth tax, universal education. You know, stuff that improves our society.

          • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Wednesday January 15 2020, @10:02PM

            by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday January 15 2020, @10:02PM (#943800) Journal

            I've been a lifelong Democrat although the way Obama expanded and extended all the worst of the GWB policies opened my eyes to what Democrats actually represent and I would be embarrassed to be called a Democrat at this point. Nostalgia for what Dems were in the 60s or 70s is not a valid criteria -- current action is. I'm also not a Republican, although why I should have to say that out loud after clearly disparaging Republican authoritarian impulses is beyond me.

            That said, I currently see people using pure power to stifle speech. That is authoritarian. I see that mere accusation is now all that's left of due process. Frankly, these are incredibly dangerous principles your side is adopting. When civil rights do not apply to the worst of us, eventually, they apply to none of us. Even those who sincerely believe they are on the right side of history, can be airbrushed out of it when human rights are reduced to nothing more than who has power. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_images_in_the_Soviet_Union#/media/File:Lenin's_speech.jpg [wikipedia.org]

        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday January 16 2020, @04:24PM (4 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday January 16 2020, @04:24PM (#944066) Journal

          You don't know "today's left" then. You're seeing what I suspect is a deliberately-curated subset of them (and curated by whom, ask yourself that). You're falling for the same mental trap that snares people who think "Westboro Baptist Church" when they hear "Christian" or "violent lesbian separatist" when they hear "feminist."

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 17 2020, @04:18PM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 17 2020, @04:18PM (#944576)

            I don't know you, and I haven't been on this site for very long. My first experience with you was seeing you make an unprovoked personal attack, questioning the Christian faith of another user because he disagreed in good faith with a climate activist. I looked at your posting history and saw more of the same behavior in other comments. I never replied to you previously, nor do I plan to do so again.

            From what I've seen from your posting history, you are a great example of the toxic behavior from some people on the left, and are a pretty good example of what he's describing. You've shown that you're a bigot by posting unprovoked attacks that question the Christian faith of others. You irresponsibly label people who disagree with you as white supremacists when, in fact, those people are posting in good faith. Your behavior is toxic, extreme, and highly divisive.

            It would be irresponsible to claim that a bigot like you is representative of the left. Such labels are unhelpful and actually destructive. However, you do represent a subset of the left that is highly toxic and engages in the same types of authoritarian behavior that you claim to condemn. You silence opposition by labeling those who disagree with you in good faith with labels like "white supremacist" that pretty much everyone disapproves of. Rather than speak up and engage in dialogue, people keep their disagreements silent for fear of receiving those labels. That frustration festers over time, eventually being released in the ugliest of ways.

            I highly doubt that if Martin Luther King were alive today, that he'd approve of the behavior exhibited by people like you. No doubt, he would condemn the very real problems of racism and other forms of bigotry that are all too common. However, he would also understand that many people who don't agree with him are acting in good faith, and try to change their hearts rather than label them and lob personal attacks. He would understand that suppressing good faith, if misguided, criticism by labeling them actually alienates people from his cause.

            Dr. King would probably see that racism is not only alive and well, but gaining strength because of the divisiveness that prevails today. Labels like "white supremacist" would be reserved for people who overtly hold those beliefs rather than being thrown around irresponsibly. He certainly wouldn't attack the Christian faith of people who, in good faith, disagree with him or express skepticism. I'm actually an atheist who has chosen to leave the Catholic Church on the basis of principle. Despite my personal rejection of religious beliefs, I find it deeply offensive for a person to make unprovoked personal attacks that call into question the religious convictions of others.

            Unlike Dr. King, you don't seem to grasp that people might disagree with you in good faith and need to be won over with reason and love. Instead, you go straight to labeling people and attacking their character. Your behavior is toxic and nasty, exhibiting the same type of bigotry that you claim do disapprove of. You're a hypocrite and your actions may well be driving people to the alt-right rather than away from it.

            It's extremely unfortunate and dangerous that racism, especially white supremacy, is thriving. You, however, are a bigot in your own right, and are part of the problem. I thoroughly condemn bigotry and white supremacy, but I do so in spite of people like you, not because of people like you.

            I hope you take some time to reflect on how your behavior is so toxic, and how you're actually driving people toward white supremacy rather than away from it.

            Good day.

            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday January 18 2020, @03:48AM (2 children)

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday January 18 2020, @03:48AM (#944864) Journal

              That is a lot of words for a disingenuous, bad-faith tone troll.

              Listen, buddy: we're dealing with sociopaths here. They're the kind of people who only care for "civility" as a weapon to browbeat the opposition with, and you've fallen for it. Stop and listen to *what* people are saying, not how they're saying it. Declarations of racial supremacy, intent to commit genocide, and so forth do not suddenly become morally acceptable because they are couched in "civil" language.

              I was a "nice girl" for entirely too long. It got me nowhere. It took entirely too long to realize being "nice" is something sociopaths not only laugh at you for, but take as evidence that you are weak ("cucked" when speaking of males) and *deserve* to suffer. I'm not having it. I will call out evil when I see it, in raw, harsh terms, and if you don't like it, you should take a moment to examine your own priorities, lest you end up in the same quarter of Hell as Neville Chamberlain and for the same reasons.

              But of course, this is obviously not written in good faith, your post. Your constant, ignorant namedropping of Dr. King, your unseemly concern over one's "Christian faith," as if that religion isn't one of a trinity of devil-worshiping noetic plagues that have spilled blood and wrenched tortured screams from their victims for centuries, is a dead giveaway. If you are a Christian (or a Jew, or a Muslim), stop and examine that too: ask yourself why someone would have such a problem with your God figure that they explicitly call said God a demon and its followers devil-worshipers. The answers may surprise you.

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 20 2020, @09:42AM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 20 2020, @09:42AM (#945732)

                Allow me to start by apologizing for the incivility in my own comment. I am sincerely sorry for that. I recognize that being uncivil does undermine my message. I'm sorry. I was somewhat mad at you because of some of your other comments when I wrote my post, but it wasn't written in bad faith.

                Your views on Abrahamic religions remind me of TNG's pilot episode, Encounter at Farpoint. Q accuses humans of being a savage race based on barbarism of centuries past. Picard counters by requesting that humanity should be judged based not on their past but on their present. It's true that over the past few millennia, much evil has been committed in the name of the Abrahamic God. However, most followers of those religions in the present day consider violence in the name of God to be blasphemy. Judging present day followers of Abrahamic religions on the basis of crimes committed by other followers of those religions in centuries past, is not a valid argument.

                I agree that there are "dog whistles" or code words for bigotry without explicitly expressing such bigotry. And expressing bigoted views with civility doesn't remove any of the bigotry. It should be condemned, absolutely. However, I don't want to simply drive the bigotry farther into the shadows. Rather, I want to eradicate the bigotry entirely.

                Regarding Dr. King, I spoke of him because today is Martin Luther King day in the United States. But let's refer to him with his titles as the Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King, Jr., because those are significant. He was an ordained Christian minister, motivated in part by his faith to speak up against injustice. How is it that one of the greatest voices for justice and equality of the 20th century was significantly motivated by a "devil worshiping noetic plague?" Before you respond that the holy texts of the Abrahamic religions command their followers to do evil, those texts are subject to much interpretation, which leads to a wide variance in how those religions are practiced. One can condemn the Westboro Baptist Church for their interpretation of the Bible and their actions while accepting that Christianity motivates many others to do good. These are nuanced matters and are far more complex than dismissing three of the world's major religions as a "devil worshiping noetic plague."

                Regarding your response to bigotry, anger in the face of injustice is righteous. I agree with your statement that one who sits back and does nothing, one who does not become angry in the face of injustice, is complicit in that injustice. It is a powerful motivation to affect positive change. The problem is when that righteous anger transitions to rage, when one becomes consumed with hate, that a person can become the very thing they despise. Darkness does not drive out darkness. Hatred does not drive out hatred. Only love can do that.

                One should not abandon their principles in the face of evil. And yes, evil cloaked in civility is still evil. However, evil does not justify responding with incivility, lest one risks becoming the thing they despise.

                And your point about sociopaths mistaking kindness for weakness is well taken. But it seems like a lousy idea to jump to the conclusion that one is a sociopath and instantly respond in harsh terms.

                Be well.

                • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday January 21 2020, @12:30AM

                  by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday January 21 2020, @12:30AM (#946088) Journal

                  There is so much wrong in there :/ And it sucks because I can tell from what you've written you're a decent person. But it's too wishy-washy and frankly somewhat ignorant on the matter at hand.

                  Regarding Yahweh specifically: Yahweh *is* either a myth or a demon, sorry. He claims to be God, but does not meet the criteria which a being must meet in order to be God; thus he is blaspheming, and since he is supposedly a spiritual existence (or at the very least not flesh like us), he is an evil spirit, i.e., a demon.

                  Now, a priori, one *cannot know* whether God is talking to them or whether a demon is, because, to mangle the quote, "significantly advanced demons are indistinguishable from God." This is important, because the nature of revelation is such that it is private of necessity; it is not an epistemological method, because there is no way for any mind other than one's own to experience it. Much as people like Plantinga would like to argue that a revelation is "properly basic," the point is moot if there's no way to test the hypothesis.

                  That said, we have some powerful inductive evidence that this Yahweh character is not God. Mostly it has to do with the definition of what it means to be God. Among other things, God is perfect, utterly self-sufficient, lacking nothing, needing nothing, wanting nothing. This is a point few people ponder and even fewer take to its logical conclusion, which is this:

                  - 1) if this perfect God existed, *nothing else would,* because by definition the most perfect possible state of affairs is that in which nothing *but* God exists. Not other souls, not the universe as we know it, not any universe at all, not space, not time, not matter, not energy, *nada.* Just. God.

                  - 2) A perfect being has, in the most powerful and literal meaning of the words, no reason to create. Anything. Perhaps an exception could be made for "more aspects of itself," and Yahweh is said to have done this twice, with Jesus and the Holy Ghost, but even this is suspect. And the usual reason I hear from apologists ("God is love, but love needs an object, so, voila, more aspects of God so he can love himself!") runs into the earlier part of objection 2 here.

                  And I find it very, very, *very* telling that the supposed unforgivable sin isn't murder, rape, child molestation, or even *genocide* (because, whoa-hooooo, boy, would Yahweh be in trouble if it were...), but..."blasphemy against the Holy Ghost." In other words, calling a demon out for being what it is (though technically my beef is with the first person of the Trinity; I really can't say anything one way or another about the Holy Ghost). This is a very demonic thing to do in the first place; completely selfish, utterly self-absorbed, concerned with nothing more than keeping its own power over its subjects through fear.

                  Given all this and more (much more, like the problem of evil itself), inductively, it's more likely that Yahweh if he exists is some kind of powerful demon feeding off of peoples' devotion and emotion than that he's God. Now I happen not to believe any such being exists, but even if it does, it's not a God for the reasons mentioned above and many others I'm not going to get into in this specific post.

                  I've spent almost 15 years studying the Bible, comparative and precursor religions in the Ancient Near East and in Greece, and some of it has been in the original Koine and Latin. I've also spent this time learning apologetics and counter-apologetics, basic predicate logic, and moral philosophy, with deep sidetracks into Buddhism and the philosophy of atheism as well. The Abrahamic religions are utterly morally bankrupt, and even the supposedly advanced, highly-moral ideas in Christianity are just thin veneers over profound injustices--I speak here specifically of the "penal substitutionary atonement" hypothesis, to say nothing of the problem of Hell (which actually was imagined as purgation followed by annihilation, not eternal torment, originally...).

                  Do I come on strong? Yes, but it's because I know these things. I am well aware most people don't. So it's time to educate them.

                  --
                  I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
  • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday January 14 2020, @09:24PM

    by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Tuesday January 14 2020, @09:24PM (#943277)

    I can confirm that as a non-American what many of you guys think of as "left" would be considered extreme hard right wing in my country, as hemocyanin confirms below.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday January 14 2020, @10:30PM (19 children)

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Tuesday January 14 2020, @10:30PM (#943320) Journal

    Azuma, you would make a great Soylent editor. You have all the chops.

    Even if you only do it for a season, I hope you take a turn at the wheel.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday January 15 2020, @03:16AM (18 children)

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday January 15 2020, @03:16AM (#943427) Journal

      I've been considering it very strongly, but given this place's hardcore rightward and authoritarian shift, no doubt I'd not last long.

      It's not as if I'd start passing Aristarchus subs willy-nilly either; I've told him to his virtual face he's undermining his message with his trolling and antics. His brand has zero "pull" now. Too many people see the username and instantly tune out, and that's a crying shame since he's got some serious brainpower behind all the shitposting.

      Still, who knows? May be worth a try.

      --
      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday January 15 2020, @12:11PM (4 children)

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday January 15 2020, @12:11PM (#943550) Journal

        If a boat is listing to one side, the way to bring it back to an even keel is to lean the other way.

        Apart from and beyond that, you would do a good job promoting stories that bring the energy back to STEM topics and the excitement about innovation that we all share. I suspect that would be a balm this year.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday January 15 2020, @03:38PM (3 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday January 15 2020, @03:38PM (#943619) Journal

          No way would I be allowed to. To be honest, there are times I would happily watch this place disappear right off the face of the earth.

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 15 2020, @08:11PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 15 2020, @08:11PM (#943754)

            ^ this place is infested with alt-right shitheads spreading racism and misogyny because they are triggered by people caring about prejudice. Just look at the NASA story about women astronauts, my god did the turds come out in force for that one.

            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday January 16 2020, @04:21PM (1 child)

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday January 16 2020, @04:21PM (#944061) Journal

              Hence why there are times I really wonder if the internet would be better off without SN. I'd like to help, maybe even be an editor at Phoenix666 suggests, but it doesn't seem like there's any point. We're infested.

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday January 19 2020, @08:27AM

                by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 19 2020, @08:27AM (#945230) Journal

                but it doesn't seem like there's any point. We're infested.

                You can either join us - and try to change the 'infestation' that doesn't even exist - or you could leave. I would be sorry to see you go but, rather than remove SN from the internet, it would be much easier if you just stopped reading it, wouldn't it?

      • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday January 17 2020, @07:06PM (11 children)

        by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 17 2020, @07:06PM (#944667) Journal

        he's undermining his message

        This site doesn't exist so that community members can push a 'message'. Join the discussions. Make intelligent and relevant comments. Do not try to push the community in your own preferred direction.

        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday January 18 2020, @03:38AM (10 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday January 18 2020, @03:38AM (#944862) Journal

          Oh kiss my entire ass, starting and ending at the brown eye. We're neck-deep in hard-right authoritarians, and yet I don't see you telling *them* not to "push a 'message.'" Get up in the faces of, for example, Hallow or Bot or J-Mo, and I'll take you seriously about this. Until then, enjoy being a useful idiot for the internet fascist club.

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Saturday January 18 2020, @07:43AM (9 children)

            by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 18 2020, @07:43AM (#944910) Journal

            Idiot - they don't push their 'message' in the stories that we publish. People are free to say whatever they want in the comments. Even people such as yourself who are showing a remarkable lack of intelligence on this matter. You are advocating that people become editors 'to push their message'. Nope, that would mean that any editor could push any message that they wished. You want to push your own message while stopping others from exercising their right to free speech in the comments.

            WE SUPPORT FREE SPEECH.

            Is that clear enough for you now?

            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday January 18 2020, @05:03PM (8 children)

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday January 18 2020, @05:03PM (#945007) Journal

              What the hell, no, I'm not advocating that. If I were an editor the only "message" I'd be pushing is "Can we PLEASE get some more STEM in here? And also I'm dropping this politically-charged clickbait sub in the trash."

              Someone here is an idiot and "showing a remarkable lack of intelligence on this matter" and it's not me.

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Saturday January 18 2020, @05:57PM (7 children)

                by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 18 2020, @05:57PM (#945020) Journal

                We do reject those submissions, and then some in our community complain that our topics are too restrictive despite those very same topics being in place since this site was created. They would prefer it was a free-for-all like some other social media.

                However, STEM and politics can also be connected. Education - one of our topics - is dictated by politics to a significant degree. Anti-vaxxers are arguing from a point of ignorance, as are flat-earthers and climate change deniers. Business - another topic - is also very closely linked to the state of a nation's politics. Are you not heard of the tariffs being imposed on various nations? Is science being funded adequately, and are scientists even being listened to by those who control our current lives and our future? Is your privacy protected and your personal data being kept safe when your own government and huge software giants want to track you, record your every move, or use AI and cameras to identify everything you do or who you talk to?

                There are times when the political connections cannot be ignored and the reporting and discussion of such stories is important to us all. Who is more responsible for the actions of governments than your own politicians and leaders - elected or otherwise? The problem is that when we report such stories many in our community take it as an opportunity to abuse those with different political views rather than debate the actual STEM topic that is being reported.

                You have the ability to shut down such abuses by moderation - but you do not have the right to prevent others from expressing their own views. And that, we believe, is exactly how it should be.

                • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Saturday January 18 2020, @06:22PM

                  by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 18 2020, @06:22PM (#945026) Journal

                  Are you not heard

                  Couldn't decide whether to say Are you not aware of or Have you not heard so my brain decided to use both!

                • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday January 19 2020, @05:14AM (5 children)

                  by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday January 19 2020, @05:14AM (#945202) Journal

                  We need to have a serious talk about moderation then because one set of 10 points daily, with a maximum of 4 downmods per registered account, is *not sufficient* for the task at hand. People can post almost endlessly. They can shitpost more in 10 minutes than one person can -1 downmod them in 3 days.

                  If you want to make any progress here, I suggest three things:

                  1) All AC posts start at -1. Don't give me "butbutbut muh freezepeach!" okay? It's not censorship if the community does it according to our local carrion-molesting raptor.
                  2) Split mod points into 20 available daily for upmods and 10 for downmods. Yes that's 30 points a day. Tweak the numbers a bit if you like, maybe 15/15 or so, but 10 is not enough for the volume of trolling we get.
                  3) Troll modifier needs to be made stronger, -2 instead of -1, and modbombing with it taken seriously.

                  --
                  I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                  • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday January 19 2020, @08:21AM (4 children)

                    by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 19 2020, @08:21AM (#945227) Journal

                    because one set of 10 points daily, with a maximum of 4 downmods per registered account, is *not sufficient* for the task at hand.

                    Moderation isn't there to enforce one person's opinion - it is to aggregate the community's opinion. One person MUST NOT be able to dictate the views of everyone else or decide which comments members can see. I keep repeating this, but by having more modpoints you seem to want to be able to personally to shut out views that YOU do not like. There are over 8000 registered members - that is 80,000 moderation points that are available. Perhaps the community does not see things the way that you do? By all means bring this discussion to IRC and we can discuss all of the possible options and outcomes.

                    All AC posts start at -1

                    What would that achieve? It is an arbitrary value. Some AC's make interesting and insightful comments. Why should they be penalised for the actions of a few? You can select the level at which you can see stories without rewriting the whole site just to suit your preferred values. Use the site properly - start surfing at a higher threshold than you are currently doing.

                    2) Split mod points into 20 available daily for upmods and 10 for downmods. Yes that's 30 points a day. Tweak the numbers a bit if you like, maybe 15/15 or so, but 10 is not enough for the volume of trolling we get.

                    You are still looking at this as YOUR battle so that you can (or you wish to be able to) clean it up single-handedly. Others have solved the problem by surfing at different thresholds, or by switching off the Politics nexus in their personal settings, or simply ignoring the crap and not getting excited about it. You are making the assumption that everyone shares your opinions on every topic. They do not. Do not try to personally control what other people can say, read or believe; it is a community view not a personal one that we are seeking.

                    One of the reasons that we get more Trolls at the weekend is because people like you get into such a tizzy about it. They get a reaction from you. They can wind you up and sit back to watch the fun. As you get more frustrated or when arguments do not go your way you often switch to ad hominem attacks. You are giving them all the entertainment and publicity that they crave. Mod them down and then ignore them, or vice versa if you prefer.

                    By all means come and join us to improve what this site can be, we would welcome that. But do not expect us to change everything because you see things that you do not like. I don't like the trolls or the abusive comments either but if the community doesn't wish to moderate them then I have to change my personal selections to 'clean' the comments up. Unfortunately, as an editor you have to spend a lot of time reading the site at the lowest thresholds just so that you can see those comments that you might prefer not to see.

                    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday January 19 2020, @08:37PM (3 children)

                      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday January 19 2020, @08:37PM (#945455) Journal

                      You know that .gif of the dog man in a bowler hat drinking tea in a burning house and going "this is fine" even as his skin melts off and his flesh crisps? Yeah. That's what this puts me in mind of. You really do not seem to understand either the scale or the kind of problem we're facing here. Ignoring it doesn't make it go away. Constantly taking the high road not only doesn't make it go away but encourages it. Direct opposition and even violence don't either.

                      Know what ideologues fear most? *Mockery.* Every tinpot dictator, every frothing monomaniac, every teeth-grinding troll in all of history fears laughter, mockery, the metaphorical high-velocity custard pie, more than anything else. Closely behind this is being ignored, which downmods help with.

                      Now, if y'all want me as an editor, we're going to need to talk a little about what that would entail. I will tell you up front, as an editor I would be dropping a lot of political stories straight into /dev/null and heavily favoring STEM. I'd also make sure to publish a few Ari subs here and there if he can be convinced to quit bloviating in the submission directly (argh...) because, you know, he's not wrong. I wish he hadn't gone in for trolling and shitposting so hard...

                      --
                      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                      • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday January 20 2020, @08:04AM

                        by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 20 2020, @08:04AM (#945717) Journal

                        Now, if y'all want me as an editor, we're going to need to talk a little about what that would entail.

                        It entails you joining a team that supports this site - not the site having to comply with your demands. There are a set of rules that we all work to [soylentnews.org] and you would be expected to follow those rules just as every editor before you has done. The 'wanting to join' has to come from you - if you're waiting for your own gilt edged invitation it probably won't arrive in the post.

                      • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday January 20 2020, @08:18AM (1 child)

                        by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 20 2020, @08:18AM (#945719) Journal

                        I'd also make sure to publish a few Ari subs here and there if he can be convinced to quit bloviating in the submission directly (argh...) because, you know, he's not wrong

                        So you will be biased too, or will you also post a few stories supporting the alt-right too? Not as simple as you first thought now, is it?

                        If Ari's submissions have something new and interesting to say - not just a change of naming an individual and then trashing everything else that follows, we might post those submissions too.

                        Finally - no single editor releases a story. To comply with the rules every story has to be signed off by a 2nd editor.

                        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday January 21 2020, @12:35AM

                          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday January 21 2020, @12:35AM (#946089) Journal

                          Actually, yes. I want people to understand what it is that drives others into the arms of the "alt-right." I want people to understand what rural Americans have suffered over the last 45 years, ever since the Democrats ripped out the populist engine that kept their car going after that humiliating defeat to Dick Nixon. I want people to see how obvious it is that when people are hurting, they will vote for anyone who even pretends to give a damn, even if they're actually the worse choice, because pride is pride and the Democrats wrote off all of Middle America by 1974.

                          In short, I want people to understand that the alt-right are still human, despite how hard they're trying to get themselves disqualified from the human race for shoving. And in seeing this, I want them to understand that This Could Happen To Them To (TM), to sharpen their wits and attack the problem while there is still a chance to do so. I want them also to see that this is merely the next turn of the wheel, that this has all happened before with the Nazis and for the same reason, and that the calls, as it were, are now coming from inside the house.

                          --
                          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 20 2020, @10:29AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 20 2020, @10:29AM (#945737)

        Azuma, I don't agree with some of the things you say or how you say them. In fact, I bluntly articled that here [soylentnews.org] in a manner that wasn't particularly civil.

        However, my quarrel with you doesn't extend to whether or not you should be an editor. If you post interesting and thought-provoking content, I support you being an editor. I'd like to think that people are capable of compartmentalizing things to the extent that they can argue with you vehemently in comments and journals while still appreciating the quality of the editing. I don't give a damn about the political views of the editors so long as they post worthwhile content.

        So, yes, this is an endorsement.