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posted by martyb on Friday January 24 2020, @04:27PM   Printer-friendly
from the Better-ask-Betteridge? dept.

Capitalism is in trouble – at least judging by recent polls.

A majority of American millennials reject the economic system, while 55% of women age 18 to 54 say they prefer socialism. More Democrats now have a positive view of socialism than capitalism. And globally, 56% of respondents to a new survey agree "capitalism as it exists today does more harm than good in the world."

One problem interpreting numbers like these is that there are many definitions of capitalism and socialism. More to the point, people seem to be thinking of a specific form of capitalism that deems the sole purpose of companies is to increase stock prices and enrich investors. Known as shareholder capitalism, it's been the guiding light of American business for more than four decades. That's what the survey meant by "as it exists today."

As a scholar of socially responsible companies, however, I cannot help but notice a shift in corporate behavior in recent years. A new kind of capitalism seems to be emerging, one in which companies value communities, the environment and workers just as much as profits.

The latest evidence: Companies as diverse as alcohol maker AB InBev, airline JetBlue and money manager BlackRock have all in recent weeks made new commitments to pursue more sustainable business practices.

[...] A 2017 study showed that many companies with climate change goals actually scaled back their ambitions over time as the reality clashed with their lofty goals.

But businesses can't afford to ignore their customers' wishes. Nor can they ignore their workers in a tight labor market. And if they disregard socially responsible investors, they risk both losing out on important investments and facing shareholder resolutions that force change.

The shareholder value doctrine is not dead, but we are beginning to see major cracks in its armor. And as long as investors, customers and employees continue to push for more responsible behavior, you should expect to see those cracks grow.

The Conversation


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  • (Score: 2) by pkrasimirov on Friday January 24 2020, @04:34PM (16 children)

    by pkrasimirov (3358) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 24 2020, @04:34PM (#947991)

    > One problem interpreting numbers like these is that there are many definitions of capitalism and socialism.
    ^^ this.

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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by ilPapa on Friday January 24 2020, @06:26PM (13 children)

    by ilPapa (2366) on Friday January 24 2020, @06:26PM (#948054) Journal

    > One problem interpreting numbers like these is that there are many definitions of capitalism and socialism.
    ^^ this.

    Not really. The discussion is about capitalism, and the only definition of capitalism that matters is the system we have now.

    Pretending that there's some more "pure" capitalism that would totally work great but we don't use it is a losing argument.

    When Karl Marx wrote his big book, he laid out in clear and certain terms exactly what terminal capitalism looks like, and that's exactly what we have now. It's too late to save. Capitalism has run its course. Now the only question is how long will we make people suffer while we flog this dead horse.

    --
    You are still welcome on my lawn.
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @06:33PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @06:33PM (#948058)

      No, it doesn't look exactly like that.

      Karl Marx wrote within a specific timeframe, regarding a specific society, with the built-in assumptions that do not even apply any more. Adding on to that, his swallowing of Hegel's notions of historic progress (since roundly and rudely debunked) meant that his analyses were equally suspect.

      Where Marx had his big wins were on things like analysis of collective and individual power. His analysis of capital (based on ricardian notions) was wide of the mark.

      But Marx has a lot of fanbois these days, so I keep reading ill-informed nonsense like this.

    • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday January 24 2020, @08:00PM (1 child)

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday January 24 2020, @08:00PM (#948096) Homepage Journal

      Not really. The discussion is about capitalism, and the only definition of capitalism that matters is the system we have now.

      That's fine. The only definition of socialism that matters is what the Germany had then.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @08:13PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @08:13PM (#948109)

        Did you address your fake news journal post yet?

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday January 24 2020, @09:12PM (5 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 24 2020, @09:12PM (#948150) Journal
      There's no one system of capitalism. Even if we restrict our attention to the US. Capitalism varies hugely by region. Capitalism in Silicon Valley is very different from capitalism in Wyoming or Louisiana.
      • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Saturday January 25 2020, @02:51PM (4 children)

        by ilPapa (2366) on Saturday January 25 2020, @02:51PM (#948470) Journal

        There's no one system of capitalism.

        OK, if you say so, but there's only one system that we currently have, and it's end-stage capitalism and cannot be saved.

        --
        You are still welcome on my lawn.
        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday January 25 2020, @09:08PM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 25 2020, @09:08PM (#948609) Journal
          I already showed that assertion was wrong. For example, most publicly traded US stocks are traded within a few hundred miles radius of New York City. That includes black pool markets. That results among other things in both the New York state General Attorney and the NYC branch of the Federal Reserve having outsized influence on such markets.

          Corporations which have nothing to do with the state even for trading their stock, don't have to care about NY regulations.

          Meanwhile Louisiana has a culture of deep, local corruption, and Wyoming is a frontier sort of capitalism, with relatively poor access to capital.
        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday January 26 2020, @12:50PM (2 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 26 2020, @12:50PM (#948828) Journal

          and it's end-stage capitalism and cannot be saved.

          Except by restoring it to early-stage capitalism. This is not rocket science.

          • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Monday January 27 2020, @04:46AM (1 child)

            by ilPapa (2366) on Monday January 27 2020, @04:46AM (#949190) Journal

            Except by restoring it to early-stage capitalism. This is not rocket science.

            It's a one-way street. You can't put the genie in the bottle. Capitalism ends in economic and social cancer, it's inevitable.

            --
            You are still welcome on my lawn.
            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday January 27 2020, @04:56AM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 27 2020, @04:56AM (#949196) Journal

              It's a one-way street. You can't put the genie in the bottle. Capitalism ends in economic and social cancer, it's inevitable.

              Sure you can. You just need to get serious about it. Rule of law is a great place to start.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @10:51PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24 2020, @10:51PM (#948209)

      Anybody can point out imperfections. Marx did.

      Inventing something better is far more difficult. Marx failed. His nonsense assumes a world in which human nature is somehow mysteriously changed. Attempting to follow his advice has killed well over 100 million people, and it would be foolhardy to try yet again. The deaths come from poverty, enforcement, and the fact that centralized control allows bigger mistakes.

      The only economic systems worse than capitalism are ALL OF THE REST. Nothing else is better. Accept it before you cause more needless death.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday January 25 2020, @12:27AM (2 children)

        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday January 25 2020, @12:27AM (#948262) Journal

        I'd been telling people for years that Marx's problem is that he's a natural critic...which means he's spot-on about the problems, but Ishtar add preservatives to you if you follow his proposed solutions. Some people excel at either creation or destruction, and to ask for creation from a master destroyer or destruction from a creator/trix is foolish.

        --
        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 25 2020, @05:46AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 25 2020, @05:46AM (#948372)

          Who is Trix?

          • (Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Saturday January 25 2020, @09:16PM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 25 2020, @09:16PM (#948614) Journal
            Trickster God - they often were important to creation myths. For example, Prometheus bringing fire to man or Crow/Raven/Coyote in Native American myths who often did important changes to the world, directly or through reaction from the creator gods.
  • (Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Friday January 24 2020, @06:31PM (1 child)

    by ElizabethGreene (6748) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 24 2020, @06:31PM (#948057) Journal

    Agreed. Between shifting definitions and the acute lack of true Scotsmen it's very difficult to have a discussion on the topic.

    • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday January 24 2020, @09:06PM

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday January 24 2020, @09:06PM (#948145) Journal

      Damn Scots! They ruined Scotland!

      --
      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..