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posted by martyb on Wednesday January 29 2020, @10:47AM   Printer-friendly
from the speak-up-now dept.

The Growing Threat to Free Speech Online:

There are times when vitally important stories lurk behind the headlines. Yes, impeachment is historic and worth significant coverage, but it's not the only important story. The recent threat of war with Iran merited every second of intense world interest. But what if I told you that as we lurch from crisis to crisis there is a slow-building, bipartisan movement to engage in one of most significant acts of censorship in modern American history? What if I told you that our contemporary hostility against Big Tech may cause our nation to blunder into changing the nature of the internet to enhance the power of the elite at the expense of ordinary Americans?

I'm talking about the poorly-thought-out, poorly-understood idea of attempting to deal with widespread discontent with the effects of social media on political and cultural discourse and with the use of social media in bullying and harassment by revoking or fundamentally rewriting Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act.

[...] In 1996, [Congress] passed Section 230. The law did two things. First, it declared that "No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider." In plain English, this means that my comments on Twitter or Google or Yelp or the comments section of my favorite website are my comments, and my comments only.

But Section 230 went farther, it also declared that an internet provider can "restrict access to or availability of material that the provider or user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable" without being held liable for user content. This is what allows virtually all mainstream social media companies to remove obscene or pornographic content. This allows websites to take down racial slurs – all without suddenly also becoming liable for all the rest of their users' speech.

It's difficult to overstate how important this law is for the free speech of ordinary Americans. For 24 years we've taken for granted our ability to post our thoughts and arguments about movies, music, restaurants, religions, and politicians. While different sites have different rules and boundaries, the overall breadth of free speech has been extraordinary.

[...] Large internet companies that possess billions of dollars in resources would be able to implement and enforce strict controls on user speech. Smaller sites simply lack the resources to implement widespread and comprehensive speech controls. Many of them would have no alternative but to shut down user content beyond minimalist input. Once again, the powerful would prevail.


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  • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday January 29 2020, @08:12PM (21 children)

    by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Wednesday January 29 2020, @08:12PM (#950816) Journal

    Mere thoughts aren't criminal, no matter how warped, perverted, etc., they are. Putting them into either word or deed, on the other hand, can be. Try posting a death threat against POTUS and see what happens. If you're in the US or any other member 5 Eyes country, you have no such thing as "anonymity" on the internet anyway. If your VPN passes through any of those countries, same caveat applies.

    But give it a try ... we'll get the popcorn.

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    SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
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  • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday January 29 2020, @08:22PM (20 children)

    by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday January 29 2020, @08:22PM (#950820) Journal

    Word and deed are two separate things. Word control is thought control, very evil.

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    La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
    • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday January 29 2020, @08:29PM (9 children)

      by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Wednesday January 29 2020, @08:29PM (#950827) Journal
      Word control is NOT thought control. Unless, of course, you're a mindless idiot who immediately says everything that comes to mind. People who do that just aren't credible outside crazy Pentecostal "speaking in tongues" events.
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      SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
      • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday January 29 2020, @08:48PM (8 children)

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday January 29 2020, @08:48PM (#950837) Journal

        Sorry, wrong again, you shall not prohibit people from writing what they are thinking. You just don't have that kind of right. Our opinions mean nothing. Censorship is always evil. We have to defeat it by any means necessary.

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        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
        • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday January 29 2020, @08:59PM (7 children)

          by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Wednesday January 29 2020, @08:59PM (#950844) Journal

          If it's my writing materials (for example paper, printer, ink) I certainly CAN prevent you from writing anything at all. Go buy your own.

          Same as if you then post your manifesto on public property, like a bus shelter. Not your property, either get the owner's permission, or screw off.

          You can always use your wifi to set up a mesh network host. Then you're free to broadcast, and anyone nearby can pick it up - and if they judge it worthy, they can pass it along. And if they judged it crap, they would just delete it. And if you posted too much crap, they'd ban your node. Worked with FidoNET.

          If I;m in a public place and you start telling me that I need Jesus in my life and won't stop even after I've told you a dozen times I'm an atheist, your right to your religious beliefs and freedom of speech doesn't give you the right to harass me. Though you can try to tell it to the judge after you're arrested for harassment.

          --
          SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
          • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday January 29 2020, @09:43PM (6 children)

            by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday January 29 2020, @09:43PM (#950861) Journal

            If it's my writing materials

            Again that's not the issue. I can find my own material.

            Defacing public property is not a speech issue. Doesn't apply here.

            And as far as networking is concerned, I have always advocated for a way to bypass the service provider. But when somebody has the only provider in town, they shall only be allowed to limit bandwidth, content shall remain untouchable, no matter who takes offense.

            People yelling into your ear is another thing entirely.You have no right to stop the Jesus dude from preaching on the corner. You can complain about and regulate the decibel level, and the bright lights, but nothing else. What makes you think you have a right to control everything within earshot? That's insane. But, yeah, Canada, no 1st amendment there, anything can happen.

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            La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
            • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday January 30 2020, @12:50AM (5 children)

              by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday January 30 2020, @12:50AM (#950928) Journal
              You don't have wifi? If you do, set up your own wifi node as part of a local mesh network and let your neighbours know. So you won't reach as far, and it's more work. But a laptop with wifi and a web server (or even a Telnet server) works for your neighbours. Unless your neighbours aren't interested, but you have no right to an audience. -

              Same as you can get your own printer and print up pamphlets and distribute them. Internet access is not a right, and isn't needed for you to exercise your right to freedom of expression. Or you can make yourself a sandwich board sign and walk around town with your message in plain public view.

              Of course if you're a lazy keyboard warrior, all that is too much to ask. Slacktivists deserve to be ignored.

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              SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
              • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday January 30 2020, @01:15AM (4 children)

                by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday January 30 2020, @01:15AM (#950934) Journal

                You are being repetitive. Those aren't even the things I'm discussing.

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                La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
                • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday January 30 2020, @01:58AM (3 children)

                  by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday January 30 2020, @01:58AM (#950952) Journal

                  Yes they are part and parcel of the discussion. You're complaining about censorship. I'm pointing out that if you want to be uncensored, create your own mesh network using the wifi available on every laptop. You can run your own frt, http, telnet, and Usenet nodes, no censorship. You can also express yourself in other more traditional ways. You have no right to demand that others provide you with any censor-free platform. Make your own and quit crying - others have done it, and some of them have no other choice.

                  If you have either a laptop with a wifi adapter or a desktop with a wifi router you can have your own network. Free of all censorship. What you can't do is expect anyone to support your point of view. You need to make your case, and you haven't. You haven't proposed any sort of solution to the main topic. I did. It allows for anonymous posts, takes the burden off site owners since all anonymous posts disappear after a set time, and gives a way to have non-anonymous users accountable.

                  You just don't want accountability. In other words, you want to have your cake and eat it too. Instead of whining, why not try to come up with a solution?

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                  SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                  • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday January 30 2020, @02:03AM (2 children)

                    by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday January 30 2020, @02:03AM (#950956) Journal

                    Yes they are part and parcel of the discussion.

                    And I already covered it. No need to do it again.

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                    La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
                    • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday January 30 2020, @02:31AM (1 child)

                      by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday January 30 2020, @02:31AM (#950975) Journal
                      So quit your whining and propose a .solution already . TFA lays the problem out pretty clearly. Or at least point out why my solution doesn't work for anyone. (Just because it doesn't work for you isn't my problem - all anyone can expect is something that works better than the status quo.
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                      SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                      • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday January 30 2020, @04:40AM

                        by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday January 30 2020, @04:40AM (#951031) Journal

                        So quit your whining and propose a .solution already

                        Already have, many times. The solution has to come from the voters. They have to vote for an open internet, free of all meddling. The technical solutions to censorship will have to come from the people with the means. They don't need me to know which direction to take.

                        --
                        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
    • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday January 29 2020, @09:05PM (9 children)

      by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Wednesday January 29 2020, @09:05PM (#950845) Journal

      Word and deed are two separate things. Word control is thought control, very evil.

      Make up your mind. Either words and deeds are separate things, or they aren't. Words are not thoughts. Thoughts are what goes on inside your skull. Words are a means to communicate thoughts to others, and only as they're put into expression. Words you keep in your skull are never censored. Your thoughts are still your own. And sometimes others would like to keep it that way because they are bored with the same flawed arguments over and over.

      Even the cavemen knew the difference between their drawings and the actual real-world object.

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      SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
      • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday January 29 2020, @09:21PM (8 children)

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday January 29 2020, @09:21PM (#950851) Journal

        If you don't like the words don't read them. You have no right to stop a person from writing them.

        Even the cavemen knew the difference between their drawings and the actual real-world object.

        Exactly, the words are just drawings, not the object. They are recorded thoughts which nobody has a right to obstruct from people who want to see.

        I'm afraid you are the one making the flawed argument. Only technology can actually settle it. Something to make censorship impractical if not impossible.

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        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
        • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday January 29 2020, @09:30PM (7 children)

          by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Wednesday January 29 2020, @09:30PM (#950854) Journal

          I have every right to tell people not to spew their nonsense around me. It's called personal space for a reason. Violate it, pay the consequences.

          Technology can't make censorship impossible, because anything technology can do, other technology can undo. Or, in the case of you insisting that other people listen to your views, a couple of cops with a harassment complaint. Can't beat low tech.

          And if you're depending on my resources to disseminate your words, I can certainly stop you. My printer, my ink, my paper, go buy your own.

          --
          SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
          • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday January 29 2020, @09:52PM (6 children)

            by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday January 29 2020, @09:52PM (#950865) Journal

            Now you're just repeating yourself. I have addressed all that.

            Any law regulating content is unjust. We have to use whatever we have to defeat it.

            --
            La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
            • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday January 30 2020, @12:41AM (5 children)

              by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday January 30 2020, @12:41AM (#950924) Journal
              No we don't. We regulate other content all the time. Like what goes into food, spectrum allocation, etc. You're free to set up your own system; but you're not free to demand that I design and write and host it. And you're the one repeating yourself, day after day, year after year. Look, I get that you're an anarchist, but anarchists are self-defeating / they can't even organize themselves because, well, anarchy.
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              SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
              • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday January 30 2020, @01:19AM (4 children)

                by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday January 30 2020, @01:19AM (#950936) Journal

                they can't even organize themselves because, well, anarchy.

                :-) The machine will do all the work

                --
                La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
                • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday January 30 2020, @02:01AM (3 children)

                  by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday January 30 2020, @02:01AM (#950954) Journal
                  Dream on. You expect anarchists to be able to code? That requires organizational skills, something anarchists don't have, because they're anarchists.
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                  SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                  • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday January 30 2020, @02:05AM (2 children)

                    by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday January 30 2020, @02:05AM (#950960) Journal

                    Such bigotry! That's not true at all. Evidently you don't understand the concept of cooperation. You disappoint me

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                    La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
                    • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday January 30 2020, @02:26AM (1 child)

                      by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday January 30 2020, @02:26AM (#950973) Journal

                      I understand the concept of cooperation just fine. I also understand that anarchies are failed states. We have a few of them floating around right now - go live in Somalia and you won't have to worry about censorship because you'll have far bigger things to worry about.

                      Anarchists are seriously immature. But that's okay - they can't really get their shit together to be taken seriously. It's a self-limiting problem.

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                      SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                      • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday January 30 2020, @04:21AM

                        by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday January 30 2020, @04:21AM (#951027) Journal

                        anarchies are failed states

                        Amusing thought, but obviously you don't understand the concept of anarchism. Let us know when you figure it out.

                        --
                        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..