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People Are Jailbreaking Used Teslas to Get the Features They Expect:
People have certain expectations when they buy a car. For example, they expect it to work for years afterwards needing only basic maintenance. They also expect that the purchase price includes ownership of not only the physical car itself but all the software that runs it.
Tesla doesn't agree.
Last week, Jalopnik ran an article about a person who bought a used Tesla from a dealer—who in turn bought it at auction directly from Tesla under California's lemon law buyback program—advertised as having Autopilot, the company's Advanced Driver Assistance System. The entire Autopilot package, which the car had when the dealer bought it, costs an extra $8,000. Then, Tesla remotely removed the software because "Full-Self Driving was not a feature that you had paid for." Tesla said if the customer wanted Autopilot back, he'd have to fork over the $8,000.
Tesla clawing back software upgrades from used cars is not a new practice for the company. "Tesla as a policy has been doing this for years on salvage cars," said Phil Sadow, an independent Tesla repair professional. One former employee, who used to work in an official Tesla service center and asked to remain anonymous because he still works with Tesla in another capacity, said he was told to put the software features back if people complained to avoid bad publicity. He left about a year ago.
But that doesn't mean Tesla owners are helpless. Sadow and others have ways to push back against Tesla by jailbreaking the cars and getting the features owners feel are rightfully theirs.
"As far as I am concerned removing a paid-for feature, regardless of the state of the car, is theft," Sadow said. "It's as if a bunch of guys show up in a van and take your upgraded 20" wheels. Just because it's software, it's no different."
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday February 13 2020, @12:04AM (30 children)
Good news, but the car might become dangerous if it's too easy to break real safety features.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 3, Funny) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday February 13 2020, @12:18AM
That is a good point, but:
is also a valid point.
I was prepared to get all outraged about Tesla stealing stuff from people. I might need to dial it back now. Thanks for spoiling my fun Fusta.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Ethanol-fueled on Thursday February 13 2020, @12:26AM
Being charged for a feature that will kill you. What a country!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Thursday February 13 2020, @12:40AM (27 children)
Maybe safety features that rely solely on software aren't really safe?
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by fustakrakich on Thursday February 13 2020, @12:48AM (1 child)
:-) Leave Boeing out of this!
It's the speed/torque limiter that will get the most attention. That's pretty much a software thing. They could screw up the charger too and blow their house up in the middle of the night.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 4, Informative) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @05:49AM
That wouldn't be a problem in itself.
However, a problem still arises when blowing up their house will cause damage and/or loss of limb/life to people that have no bearing in this ill-advised decision.
Public safety doesn't necessary stops at the door of a private house - for very good reasons, one still can't discharge dimethyl mercury down their drain nor heat their apartment with hypergolic propellants.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @05:53AM (24 children)
And, because they aren't really perfect, let's throw them away and allow even clueless people to screw with them. Because this will surely make the thing so much safer for the public.
Is that what you are saying?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 13 2020, @08:58AM (6 children)
People should have full control over their computing to begin with. Anything else is inherently oppressive and will be used by mega-corporations and governments to take advantage of people, as already happens.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 13 2020, @09:16AM
Get with the times pops, It's illegal for all major hardware manufacturers to give you full control.
https://www.devever.net/~hl/intelme [devever.net]
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @09:24AM (2 children)
People should have the knowledge and abilities to be able to exercise the control over their computers before even starting "to begin with".
Wake me up when this knowledge exists in even a non-trivial part of the population (as a first step before their number is large enough to ask for/obtain protective regulations).
Yeah, it happens. Deal with it the best you can, because most of the people don't care, so don't expect their support.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 13 2020, @11:46AM (1 child)
No, that's not how a specialized society works. People should have access to people with knowledge and abilities to be able to exercise full control over the objects they own. And yes, that includes buying a $1,000 second-hand dinkytoy and upgrading it with a $2,000 rolls royce engine, and driving it in public if the resulting contraption is road-worthy. Just because (parts of) the engine is made with software should not invalidate that freedom.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @01:44PM
You mean, if they have enough money to hire someone to assess the road-worthy-ness, right?
I don't know, but I have this hunch anyone can do it right now, within the bounds of the current regulations. Enough "fast and furious" movies featuring custom modded, hot rods and shop-build cars for me to believe it is legal.
So, wipe clean Tesla's firmware (to avoid breaching DMCA) and replace it with your own choice of firmware, pass the inspection and Bob's your uncle.
Look, even the diabetics that hack their own pump into something better [medicalxpress.com] a free to do so as long as they don't endanger others (even when some make fatal programming mistakes) - that is they do no sell the hacked pumps without FDA's certification. Were they to have enough money for certification, I'm sure they could compete with the actual manufacturers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 13 2020, @05:01PM (1 child)
I don't know why there hasn't been more pushback or rioting in the streets over that. I first ran into it about a decade ago. Basic 1040s don't require it, but lots of other filings do. Why isn't anyone complaining about that? Tax information should *NEVER* be required to go through a third party. It is between you and the government, and only optionally through an account agent or tax specialist who should have gone through ethics and privacy classes before ever being allowed near sensitive personal information.
But that isn't the America we live in anymore.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 13 2020, @06:34PM
While I don't like the idea of a 3rd party seeing my taxes, it does appear that this system has been pretty secure to date (famous last words).
After all, the same 3rd party probably has seen at least parts of Trumps tax returns...and no one has leaked them yet, although plenty have been looking.
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Thursday February 13 2020, @10:20AM (16 children)
No, I'm saying manufacturers are ignoring too much low tech as backup, such as:
no mechanical connection between steering wheel and front wheels (this bug is not in my car);
no mechanical connection between the transmission and gear selector (this bug is in my car);
no mechanical kill switch (this bug is in my car);
no mechanical park brake (this bug is in my car);
and probably more.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @01:56PM (12 children)
Keeping into account the EV nature of Tesla and knowing EV are going to be the mainstream, some/many of those bugs are unavoidable or moot (e.g. no transmission/gear box necessary, but the acceleration cannot be mechanical anymore, you will need to deal with PWM for acceleration control and PID regulators for cruise control)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 13 2020, @06:38PM (1 child)
> ... knowing EV are going to be the mainstream,...
Not at the rate things are going now. Unless your timeframe is 2040 or so, that's my earliest guess for half EV in the fleet. If you want to include hybrids as "EV", it might be sooner.
Many of the cars sold this year will still be running (perhaps limping(grin)) in 2040.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday February 13 2020, @07:05PM
Meh, Trump's not gonna last that long and I guarantee you the Japanese cars brouhaha in the early '80-ies will be a spring breeze in comparison the speed the Chinese car industry is gonna penetrate US.
BTW, in case you aren't aware; the Chinese are nowadays
- by far the largest car producer in the world [ceoworld.biz] - produces more cars than the next top 4 combined
- the largest lithium battery producer in the world [forbes.com] - at 73%
Yeah, right, if you think of be dismissive about the quality, take some moments to also think that:
- a good percentage of Americans shop at Wallmart, stacked with chinese stuff. If it's cheap and good enough, they are gonna buy it
- significantly improving the quality in an existing production centers can happen quicker than significantly growing the manufacturing capacity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Thursday February 13 2020, @11:29PM (9 children)
I don't know of any car that doesn't have a drive by wire acclerator (not that I've actually looked for one). And I don't see that as a problem.
But I still want a way of making sure that cruise control is off and drive to the wheels is disabled - if I could afford an electric car I'd be willing to pay extra for a clutch somewhere between the motor and wheels.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 14 2020, @12:45AM (8 children)
This will absolutely kill your mileage and likely fry your motor - you see, those motor coils simply hate sudden changes in the load or current; you've been played against long ago by that Russian with a German name - Emil Lenz [wikipedia.org], 'twas him - he legislated nasty effects will happen whenever you break a circuit with a big, powerful coil in which nice heavy currents happily flow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Friday February 14 2020, @03:28AM (7 children)
Yes, but both are preferable to running off the road at whatever the car's maximum speed is because cruise control is stuck on. I did call it a safety device, not something to misuse on a daily basis.
Changing the subject just a little, the manufacturer of the DCC* system I use on my model railway is ...Lenz [lenz-elektronik.de]. No relation as far as I can see.
*DCC uses PWM for speed control for the same reason electric cars use it (just to get back on subject :)).
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 14 2020, @04:01AM (6 children)
I reckon there are better solutions than to mechanically decouple the drive train.
Like an mechanically switch which cuts the main power and some (large current rated) flyback freewheeling diodes on the motor coils which will get you an inductive breaking - the max current in the coils at the value when you cut the power. You'll still need to deal with the heating in the coil - 500kg*(25m/s)2/2 = 156250J - meh, not that bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Friday February 14 2020, @05:00AM (5 children)
A good option, although I would also like to have independant brake control (I want both, call me entitled if you like; but I also recognise that no manufacturer will offer both).
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 14 2020, @05:12AM (4 children)
I assumed there must be a simple, friction based, mechanical brake.
Regenerative/inductive braking will be limited on the braking force and one must assume there will be cases in which, damn'd be energy efficiency, one must stop asap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Friday February 14 2020, @06:11AM (3 children)
In a world where the Nissan Infiniti doesn't have a mechanical connection between steering wheel and front wheels I'm not confident that's a safe assumption for much longer.
Dynamic braking (as used on trains) is most efficient at high speeds, It gets less so at 20-30km/h. I still want my multicircuit friction brakes - they're still usable even if the assistance goes on holiday.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 14 2020, @07:31AM (2 children)
But of course! Here's how when everything else fails [youtube.com]
(note how this is not a problem that's specific to EV?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Friday February 14 2020, @08:13AM (1 child)
... Wow!
My post wasn't clear enough - all of my initial specific criticisms were of misfeatures found in infernal combustion engined cars (and 3/4 are in mine).
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 14 2020, @08:19AM
No, apologies, your post was clear. My mind wasn't - with my only excuse being the late evening of a thanks-god-is-friday.
A good thing I can give a miss to anything Valentine related.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 13 2020, @06:47PM (2 children)
What's a mechanical kill switch?
An ignition switch in a gasoline engine electronically disconnects the ignition - somewhere along the line so no more sparks reach the cylinders - it doesn't mechanically stop the engine from turning. Without spark the combustion usually can't continue, but you've heard an engine "diesel out" right? Where it continues to run for a few cycles after the ignition is off? Yeah, nothing trying to stop the engine from turning ... So what's sort of mechanical kill switch are you pining for?
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Thursday February 13 2020, @11:20PM
A switch with contacts; one that can stop the fuel pump and fuel injector (and ignition of a spark ignition engine). And given the choice between stuck full throttle and dieseling I'll take the latter with its reduced power.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 14 2020, @12:36AM
Many new cars don't have switches that disconnect anything. "Turning the ignition off" sends a signal to the computer to tell it to stop.
Some people worry about things like : https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=20/02/12/0431203 [soylentnews.org]