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The construction of HS2, a high speed rail link between London and the north of England, has been approved. The announcement was made by Boris Johnson yesterday. Phase 1, due for completion in 2028 at the earliest, will be between London and Birmingham; Phase 2, due in 2035 at the earliest, will be two separate lines onwards to Manchester and Leeds.
The trains will travel at up to 250 mph. They will otherwise be conventional, and will take electrical power from overhead catenary. The line will have connections with existing ones, enabling some trains to continue at lower speeds to further destinations, such as Liverpool and Scotland.
The routes will be broadly parallel with existing ones, which are generally running at full capacity. Rail passenger travel in the UK has greatly increased in recent years and this, rather than the reduction in journey times, is the main driver for the project.
Note : It is called HS2 because it is the second high speed line in the UK, HS1 being the link from St. Pancras International railway station in central London to the Channel Tunnel.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday February 13 2020, @02:31PM (6 children)
I love high speed rail. The Shinkansen, the TGV in France, they're awesome. Flicking through the countryside and going from city center to city center beats air travel hands down.
But if our automobile fleet is about to transition to self-driving electric cars, do high-speed trains still make sense? If you can ride in the safety of your own car and lay back and sleep, while the car drives itself point-to-point, does it still make sense for us to make the massive public investment in high speed rail?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Thursday February 13 2020, @03:08PM (5 children)
If you can ride in the safety of your own car
That is a very big if.
In the unlikely event of the traffic flowing at all, subjects to speed limits of 70MPH or lower.
Trains go over 200 MPH for most of the journey.
You can lay back and sleep safely in your car? And wake up, clean, fresh and without a killer backache?
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday February 13 2020, @06:10PM (4 children)
There are few places even in America where you cannot get in a 15-hr drive. Get in your car, watch a movie, read a book, play a game with your family, eat a meal, turn in. Wake up in the morning, have your coffee and a danish, arrive at your destination. No taxis or baggage claim or subways required. Door to door.
Yes, the absolute speed of a high-speed train is higher. But you have to travel on their schedule. You have to try to get tickets. You have to lug your gear to the station and hope the train doesn't lose it. You have to submit to an anal probe and advanced genital fondling from security. And unless you buy a first class cabin, you will still sleep poorly and wake up with a hurt back and grotty from lack of shower.
If self-driving cars fully arrive, it's a safe bet that manufacturers will make the seats more comfortable for sleeping, able to pivot so they can face backward & interact with the other passengers, etc.
If that's what we're talking about, do high speed trains still make sense?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by quietus on Thursday February 13 2020, @06:53PM (1 child)
Interesting question.
What are the costs of maintaining highway infrastructure versus high speed rail maintenance?
If we go all-electric on transport, what will that do to the cost of your electricity bill, which you must pay to make use of modern society (lights, internet, phone)? Is that price increase fair to people who don't use cars? Is that price increase fair to the poor who can't afford a Tesla? to city dwellers who can easily move around using public transport?
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday February 14 2020, @03:38AM
Yeah I don't really know the answer. Just musing. It seems like we've already built and are maintaining the highways and roads, so that's a wash. Spending extra billions on high speed rail when the other things are about to render it mostly moot doesn't seem as necessary as it did a few years ago.
For coast-to-coast travel, or to hop over the big ponds I'd prefer lighter-than-air travel in zeppelins to trains or ships. I know I'm a bit of an oddball on that one but I really, really hate 747s. For anything from New York to the upper Great Plains I'd take a self-driving EV before a high speed train because I wouldn't have to bother switching modes and could stop off and see stuff along the way; a lot of people consider the middle of the country empty "Flyover Country," but there's so much cool stuff you'd never get to see except by car, like the Lake Superior Highlands, the Indiana State Dunes, Great River Bluffs State Park, and so on.
That's hard to say also. I imagine most people would charge their cars at night, when the 24-hr spot prices for grid power are lowest. Utilities typically run at a loss then and make it up during peak in the afternoon and early evening. So people charging at night would probably only bring that cost curve up to break-even. In some places it's even possible to time-shift your billing such that you charge up batteries at night when rates are lowest and run off batteries during peak. Utilities don't mind that so much because they get to minimize their losses at night and don't have to work so hard to make sure they have enough capacity to handle spikes during peak.
But that's with things as they are now. Renewables, though, are coming on strong. Solar has already reached grid parity in something like 35 states. Eventually home owners will figure that out and become their own mini power plants. So that will affect rates also. And the higher grid power rates go up, the more financially advantageous it becomes to go solar.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Friday February 14 2020, @05:40PM (1 child)
That sounds a lot like catching a plane.
More seriously, in the UK context, the only time you'll be subjected to any significant security checks is if you're travelling through the channel tunnel [eurostar.com]. That also includes passport checks, because the UK's never been part of the Shengen travel zone. Any other train, and you just get on board (having possibly shown your ticket as you step onto the platform).
You have to get tickets and travel on the railway's schedule, yes. But many important routes have two, three, or more trains an hour. The cheapest tickets will tie you to a particular train, but standard tickets are flexible, and you can travel on any train you like. Had a day's business in London, and heading home to Manchester? No need to worry what time the train leaves, as there'll be another one twenty minutes later. Just enough time for another drink before heading off.
You'll have to lug your gear to the station, but the train isn't going to be able to lose it for you: you stick it in a luggage rack or on a shelf in the same carriage as you are.
The only trains where you'll even find a first class cabin is on sleeper trains (and some of those have on-board showers now). There's only two routes that still have sleeper trains in the UK now, partially because the UK's small enough that you often don't have to travel overnight to get to where you need to be in the morning. Current daytime trains will take you from London to Glasgow in less than five hours, and the planned high speed rail will bring that below four, approaching three: that's not enough time to fall asleep!
For routes/flows with a lot of travellers, definitely. If you've got a few thousand people travelling to London for the day, where would you park all those self-driving cars? Better for them to share a train, and then you can send the train back the way it came to move some more people.
Granted, the state of play on a big continent like North America is very different. But TFA is about UK High Speed Rail...
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday February 14 2020, @08:18PM
That's a good question, too. I've read some think self-driving cars could be sent home again (if we're talking about commuters) or they could run around as ride-share vehicles while you're at work to earn you, the car owner, extra income.
Washington DC delenda est.