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SoylentNews is people

posted by on Sunday February 23 2020, @03:20PM   Printer-friendly
from the anything-not-illegal-is-compulsory dept.

Bleh. Apparently not caring what you do on other sites or even requiring any personal information isn't good enough for the state of Confusion^WCalifornia, so we have a shiny, new, temporary Privacy Policy posted on every page and linked at the top of the nav bar.

If you feel like prettying the language, layout, or whatever up before I get around to it, feel free to do so and submit a pull request.

 
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  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 23 2020, @08:08PM (7 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 23 2020, @08:08PM (#961530)

    I posted the initial comment about needing a privacy. You do collect a small amount of personally identifying information such as hashed IP addresses and, if logged in, the user name, email address, and other user-submitted content. I don't think it's correct to say you don't collect any personally identifying information. The other question is whether users can request that their accounts be deleted. Slashdot does allow this, and I believe the content of the posts from that user are changed to indicate that the account has been deleted.

    Not directly related to this, but there are a number of very out-of-date pages on the wiki such as about finances [soylentnews.org] and meetings of the board of directors [soylentnews.org]. I'm letting you know that those pages haven't been updated in years. It's not clear to me that being a Delaware PBC requires you to provide such information to people who don't own stock, but the intent expressed on the wiki is to allow ordinary users to attend meetings and ensure that their concerns are raised.

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  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 24 2020, @01:31AM (6 children)

    by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 24 2020, @01:31AM (#961646) Homepage Journal

    I don't think it's correct to say you don't collect any personally identifying information.

    By California law it is. IP addresses may be a double-edged sword but that's one we actually won in the courts as not being legally personally identifiable. User-submitted content? That is on you. Exactly like writing your number on a stall wall after "For a good time, call". And the email address can be an MD5 hash of /dev/urandom, as long as it has an @ poked in it somewhere. So try selling your nonsense to someone who's stupid enough to buy it.

    Now the second part? Yeah, you're dead on about that. We haven't had a formal meeting in years (We have constant informal ones on IRC but I recognize that you want to nit-pick). We've no need to provide any info to the two guys who hold stock though. They do the bill paying and are the only ones who have access to the bank account since our last treasurer bowed out for personal reasons and they took up the thankless tasks of bookkeeping and paying taxes. martyb would love to be able to update those pages but not having a proper treasurer or board meetings makes that a bit of a no-go.

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 24 2020, @03:21AM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 24 2020, @03:21AM (#961703)

      SoylentNews wouldn't exist in anything close to its current state were it not for your users. They purchase subscriptions, submit story ideas, and make lively discussions. The bottom line is that you should do right by your users.

      When whipslash purchased Slashdot, he promised to do things differently and users welcomed him with open arms. He didn't keep those promises. His interactions with users have generally turned bitter. The site is littered with trackers and ads but he seems uninterested in bring back subscriptions and using the money to make improvements. He is under no legal obligation to keep his promises to improve Slashdot. However, users feel he hasn't done right by them.

      You make a very similar impression to whipslash, rather combative toward your users. You say that you're just an ordinary user who happens to have administrative privileges. Pretty much no one accepts the mental gymnastics involved. You're not an ordinary user, a fact that is very apparent when you can see the hashed IPs of both logged-in and AC comments, then divulge whether those match between comments. If you don't want users to associate your behavior with the administration of this site, you absolutely have the ability to create another account and not tell anyone who you are. You can post whatever you want and nobody will associate it with the administration. You've made a decision not to do so. When users feel you haven't done right by them, that's when they "nit pick" and argue with you.

      I asked about account deletion, something you didn't actually answer. I also tried to suggest that even if the law doesn't consider some things to be personally identifying, users view it that way. Even if you don't think that hashed IP addresses are personally identifying, telling users that you collect that data and keep it for a certain amount of time is the right thing to do. As for the finances, what I said is I don't think the law requires that information to be publicly disclosed except to shareholders. However, I brought it to your attention anyway because, at a minimum, if you're not holding regular meetings and aren't disclosing financial reports, you may want to clarify that on those pages.

      The gratitude expressed in this story [soylentnews.org], SoylentNews' staff would do well to also express in other interactions with the users of this site. Frankly speaking, the reason I am somewhat hostile toward you is because I don't believe you conduct yourself in good faith toward others. I started reading this site because I was turned off by the hostile attitude of their owner. At times it doesn't seem like SoylentNews is much better.

      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 24 2020, @01:23PM (2 children)

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 24 2020, @01:23PM (#961812) Homepage Journal

        If you don't like my tone, adjust your approach. Come at me from the start with disingenuous bullshit attacks that you care nothing about except in how much of a rise they get out of me and you're not going to be met with any sort of a professional demeanor. You bring me genuine concerns offered with dignity and respect and you'll receive dignity and respect in return. You act like a shithead troll, I'm going to call you a shithead troll and not care about anything you have to say.

        As for account deletion? We don't do account deletion. We never will. You have every right in the world to change your contact email to president@whitehouse.gov, change your password to a random MD5 hash, not write it down, and be unable to ever log in again but not one thing you say will ever be disassociated with your username. Like life, we don't offer do-overs.

        As for the wiki pages? Talk to martyb(here)/Bytram(on IRC) if you actually have genuine complaints you'd like looked into. I don't have anything to do with the wiki except fixing it when it breaks. I was just relaying the situation to you.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 24 2020, @09:56PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 24 2020, @09:56PM (#962023)

          I had typed up a retort to your comment about "shithead trolls" but I'm choosing not to post it. I'm not interested in continuing a war of words. Just as you think I'm a "shithead troll," I've thought you were drunk on power. As long as both parties choose to respond in kind, those perceptions won't change, and nothing good will come from it. That's why I'm stopping.

          Have you ever noticed that the political journal entries get 100 comments with no problem but most of the news stories posted by the editors get maybe 10-20 comments? Perhaps there's a longer residence time in the "recent journal entries" than for actual news stories, but I doubt that's the reason. I think people just like to beat each other over the head, figuratively speaking.

          I took a break from my work this afternoon to take a walk. I'm waiting on some jobs to complete and there's not a whole lot I can do until they finish running. I've gained about 30 pounds since taking my job about eight months ago and I really need to lose that weight. Some of that is due to being more sedentary and some is due to making poor decisions from the stress of dealing with a boss who is neither particularly respectful nor particularly competent. Because of the extra weight I need to lose, I sometimes get lower back pain while walking, and it causes me to walk a bit awkwardly. It's my fault for not taking action about this sooner. As I was walking and minding my own business, two women were raking a lawn when I walked past and felt the need to mock my walking for no good reason. I hadn't said anything to them, hadn't gestured to them, nor had I ignored any efforts from theirs to be polite. They weren't interested in being polite or civil. They had loud music blaring laced with profane and violent messages for all to hear. I doubt they had any interest in civility. They just felt the need to be assholes for the sake of being assholes.

          From what I can tell, there is a non-negligible amount of people who really seem to enjoy being assholes to others. Quite a few more just love to argue even when nothing productive will come from it. I strongly disagree with many aspects of your political views and I have some objections to how this site is run, but there's no reason we can't be civil to one another. I'm making the choice not to fire back with some retort that further escalates this. Arguing about politics is mostly a waste of time here, too. Almost nobody is changing their views. It's just the usual suspects beating each other over the head, figuratively speaking.

          This comment is not an attack on you, but observations about how things seem to work. It's unfortunate.

          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 24 2020, @11:13PM

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 24 2020, @11:13PM (#962065) Homepage Journal

            Like I said, man, the tone you get back from me on site matters is entirely up to you. This sort of stuff is my profession and I'm quite used to compartmentalizing and behaving in a professional manner in regards to it. I do not silently endure being insulted to my face though; I'm good enough at my job that I don't have to.

            As for story discussions... Yeah, there's only so many things about gravitational waves being detected from something where they hadn't been detected before that you can say without much deeper knowledge or repeating yourself. Politics is people though and there is always more to say on that front. Don't look to change anyone else's views, you're not going to because it's literally not possible. Only you can change your views; ditto for the rest of humanity. So use the arguments as crowdsourced internal debate and be willing to change your own views. That's primarily why I discuss politics at all. That and I enjoy mocking idiots. Feel free to consider that a character flaw if you like but I don't. I consider it negative reinforcement in the hopes that they'll put at least a little thought into their argument next time.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 2) by martyb on Thursday March 05 2020, @11:52PM

        by martyb (76) Subscriber Badge on Thursday March 05 2020, @11:52PM (#967159) Journal

        I apologize for being late coming to this discussion.

        Do be aware that *I* found your comments to be level-headed and non-confrontational. You raise some very good points. In my pursuit of answers to questions raised by you (and others) in this discussion, I reached out to a board member for up-to-date financial information. I received a number of PDF files in reply. With the help of other staff members (why should something so simple be so difficult to do?), we got the files uploaded to our Wiki server and I then updated our Finances [soylentnews.org] page according. From that page you can now access a copy of the Balance Sheet AND a copy of the Profit and Loss Statement for each of our fiscal years.

        Furthermore, a story is currently scheduled for release tomorrow morning (Friday), that addresses finances and some other matters, as well.

        I thank you for reaching out and making your concerns known. If need be, I can be reached directly via e-mail at martyb (at) soylentnews (dot) org.

        --martyb

        --
        Wit is intellect, dancing.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 24 2020, @04:45PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 24 2020, @04:45PM (#961881)

      Serious question... Why does a Delaware entity give a rat's behind about California law? I wouldn't.