SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
Whether ageing can be cured or not, there are arguments for thinking about it like a disease. But there are major pitfalls, too.
The first depiction of humanity's obsession with curing death is The Epic of Gilgamesh—which, dating back to at least 1800 B.C., is also one of the first recorded works of literature, period. Centuries later, the ancient Roman playwright Terentius declared, "Old age itself is a sickness," and Cicero argued "we must struggle against [old age], as against a disease." In 450 B.C., Herodotus wrote about the fountain of youth, a restorative spring that reverses aging and inspired explorers such as Ponce de León. But what once was a mythical holy grail is now seemingly within tantalizing reach. As humans' understanding and knowledge of science and technology have increased, so too have our life spans.
[...] Maybe the ancients weren't wrong, and aging can be not only delayed but cured like a disease. Over the years, the movement to classify aging as a disease has gained momentum not only from longevity enthusiasts but also from scientists. In 1954, Robert M. Perlman published a paper in the Journal of American Geriatrics Society called "The Aging Syndrome" in which he called aging a "disease complex." Since then, others have jumped on board, including gerontologists frustrated by a lack of funding to study the aging process itself.
[...] However, labeling aging itself as a disease is both misleading and detrimental. Pathologizing a universal process makes it seem toxic. In our youth-obsessed society, ageism already runs rampant in Hollywood, the job market, and even presidential races. And calling aging a disease doesn't address critical questions about why we age in the first place. Instead of calling aging a disease, scientists should aim to identify and treat the underlying processes that cause aging and age-related cellular deterioration.
Medical understanding of that cellular deterioration began in 1962, when Leonard Hayflick, professor of anatomy at the University of California San Francisco School of Medicine, made fundamental breakthroughs to understanding aging: He discovered a limit to how many times typical human cells divide before they become senescent, or exhausted. Before then, scientists had assumed human cells were immortal. Hayflick also figured out that telomeres, which cap the ends of chromosomes and prevent them from fraying, much like plastic tips preserve the ends of shoelaces, shorten each time a cell divides. When the telomeres get short enough, a cell stops dividing.
[...] Many gerontologists distinguish between "health span" and "life span," the length of time someone enjoys relative good health versus the length of someone's life. Longevity while in poor health, pain, or with limitations that sap quality of life makes little sense. Fleming urges "regulators and public policy makers to embrace healthspan as an organizing focus for facilitating the development of medicine that target aging and chronic diseases." This shift would promote research on disease-causing processes, which could help us prevent more age-related diseases, not just manage them.
As gerontologists Sean Leng and Brian Kennedy put it, "Aging is the climate change of health care." The Population Reference Bureau predicts that 100 million Americans will be 65 or older by 2060. How will we care for this population? It's daunting to think about one's own aging, let alone the 16 percent of the world's population who will be seniors[sic] citizens by midcentury. A big-picture approach focused on the processes of aging—processes we share with nearly all living organisms—will put us on a path not only to longer lives but to healthier ones.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday March 03 2020, @05:48PM (27 children)
One of the major pitfalls of medical science is that quantity of life is more often measured than quality of life.
Average life expectancy has roughly doubled in the last 300 years [ourworldindata.org], but... far more people are living in warehouses for the aged where quality of life is certainly questionable.
For myself I do hope to live to 100+ years, but even moreso I hope I die before I get old.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 03 2020, @05:55PM
Bingo! ;)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 03 2020, @06:08PM
I saw this the other day [c-span.org], and these folks seem to agree with you.
Which is good, since most of them are researching reversal of aging.
On of the interesting points they make is that it's not so much that they're concerned about time passage, but about addressing "aging-related" diseases.
It's worth a view, IMHO.
(Score: 4, Touché) by DannyB on Tuesday March 03 2020, @07:29PM (19 children)
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
Quantity is definitely overvalued. I want to live exactly as long as I can do useful productive work, and then be done. I have an older retired friend, and I can't imagine having nothing to do, and not the energy to do very much but watch TV. I can feel it coming on, but I resist it.
I'm not trying to hasten my own demise, but when the time comes, I'm ready to go. [biblegateway.com] People ask, what do you want for ${Christmas | birthday | etc}. I can't usually think of anything. I'm mostly satisfied with what I've got. At some point you don't have very many goals left to achieve other than being modded funny.
I don't know what will be. But I'm not sure I would want to live to 80. Maybe even 70. Life isn't getting any less painful. I know some believe differently, but I feel that it would be better by far to be in the next life.
Quantity of life without quality is pretty sad, IMO. I'll take quality of life while I still have it. And friends and family. There also comes a point where you start to see more people you know having funerals instead of weddings.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday March 03 2020, @07:43PM (4 children)
There's a very strong "boiling the frog" effect at work. I'm pretty sure if I were transported from my 22 year old body into my 52 year old body overnight, I'd be looking at euthanasia options the next morning. However, with time you learn to adapt to things like poor vision, aching joints, poor aerobic capacity, failing memory, etc. However, at the point that I'm bored because there's just nothing worthwhile that I can do, that's old - and I do hope to die first.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by DannyB on Tuesday March 03 2020, @07:47PM (3 children)
Yep. Believe me, I know this. You learn to adapt. I agree that there comes a point where it is just time to go. I'm not there just yet. But I don't fear it. Maybe I've just had enough time to think it through. I remember, maybe 15 years ago, dying in a dream once, at which point, I woke up.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday March 03 2020, @08:27PM (2 children)
Yeah, when the shark ate my face, that pretty much woke me up for the rest of the night. I think I felt the teeth sinking in in my dream, but just barely.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday March 03 2020, @09:04PM (1 child)
Somehow my daughter and I ended up next to a "hollywood style" nuclear weapon where the 7-segment LED countdown was already below ten seconds. I suddenly realized I wasn't afraid, and said "in a moment, we'll be in heaven." The count reached zero. There was an amazing bright light as I woke up.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 04 2020, @12:50AM
...and you were in HELL!
(Score: 4, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 03 2020, @08:22PM (12 children)
As someone who is retired (disability, alas), I can attest that not having anything to do is a problem. Fortunately posting here as AC and trying to get modded as Funny is a great challenge that uses up a lot of my time.
(Score: 3, Troll) by DannyB on Tuesday March 03 2020, @09:13PM (11 children)
I'm sorry to hear that. There are a lot of interesting technical YouTube videos.
Stop being AC. Be yourself. Share your experience and knowledge. The trick is to not get modded Troll, unless it is the much coveted (Score 5, Troll), which I've only ever had twice in my life! Once here on SN, and once, long ago on the green site.
Study how to be funny. Not in a formal way. I became fascinated back in the Usenet rec.humor.funny days with the original moderator, before he stepped down. I was a young nerd. I wanted to understand what made these jokes so funny? So I ordered printed copies of the archive of rec.humor.funny. You begin to recognize patterns that are funny. Like, why did I pay for these spiral bound books?
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 03 2020, @10:42PM (10 children)
And get doxxed by the insane progressives that infest this place? No thank you. Even though they can't get me fired anymore, they can still make my life hell. Even though there's a very low probability that I would get doxxed (who the hell would care about anything I have to say?) it is still too large a chance.
No, I'll just stay here in the AC shadows, lurking in the dark, trying to avoid the grues.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday March 03 2020, @11:28PM (1 child)
Well, for what it's worth, they haven't doxxed anyone yet. Maybe they're not quite that crazy.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Aegis on Tuesday March 03 2020, @11:54PM
That's it khallow, you've finally crossed the line. I'm going to publish everything we know about you!
He's someone who calls himself khallow. He might have an email address.
And that's a hard "might." As in, there's a nonzero chance that he actually doesn't have an email address.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by barbara hudson on Wednesday March 04 2020, @12:55AM (5 children)
we used to have things called phone books with your name and address in it. Nobody cared.
I've posted my address in discussions both here and on the geeen site, using my legal name, the world didn't come to an end.
Did the Internet turn everyone into cowards afraid of bogeymen? As you pointed out, you're retired, you can't be fired. So what gives?
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday March 04 2020, @02:55AM (2 children)
I will never understand how unafraid you are of that. In your position I'd be goddamn terrified, not because someone would mail me something, but because they might, I don't know, shoot the place up or set it on fire? Stuff like that.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday March 04 2020, @04:56AM (1 child)
Well, people weren't doing that in pre-Internet days when phone books were in every home, so the only thing that's changed is the internet gives people more ability to be stirred up on hate subjects. But those same people are too afraid to do anything in real life. Keyboard warriors indeed.
The colder weather helps. Violent behaviour goes down with temperature. It's harder to spontaneously go out and do something stupid when you have to bundle up in boots, coat, gloves, hat, clean off the car, defrost the windows, navigate icy streets, all so you can punch someone in the face. Hard to throw punches if you're wearing multiple layers of clothing and a parka.
And during heat waves people tend to stay in places with ac. Spring, people are just happy to see winter start to go, and fall - well, we didn't have one this year.
Which is why Asia Bibi was stupid to publicly complain that she was hiding in Canada in a city without 4 seasons and only snow, snow, snow. Easy to figure out the government stashed her and her husband in Montreal. Anyway,she wants to get asylum in France when her 1 year refugee visa is up, and considering how many other countries were afraid that taking her in would make them a terrorists target, that we've been feeding, clothing , and sheltering her at taxpayer expense , as well as providing security, she seems a bit ungrateful, so no loss there.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 04 2020, @03:28PM
Phone books were just any index of numbers and nobody wants to be in one these days to to abuse.
Three internet is different, people often post personal things and get in arguments. People lose jobs over things that happen online. If you don't understand why it's important to maintain some separation, it's because you haven't been paying attention.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 04 2020, @12:20PM (1 child)
Clearly you've never been stalked, randomly selected for targeted fraud, or been part of a group subject to McCarthism style tactics. Just because you ignore reality doesn't mean other people don't take their own security for granted.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday March 04 2020, @05:04PM
I've been stalked both by trans-haters and by trans-fans. And by guys just looking for a piece of ass who won't take no for an answer. I've been assaulted, sexually harassed, sexually assaulted, and NOT ONE OF THEM NEEDED MY ADDRESS. Studies show that people are a poor judge of risk. You obviously are in that group if you think that someone having your address will make you more likely to be harassed , assaulted, etc.
No wonder you post as a coward. You are one.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Wednesday March 04 2020, @01:29PM
> doxxed by the insane progressives
Is that how life ends? Doxxed by blabbermouth progressives, then hunted down and shot by far-right, open carry conservatives who wouldn't be able to find you even with your address, if it wasn't for GPS, because no one learns how to read a map any more. Makes it sound like everyone is out to get you. What did you do to anger both the progressives and the conservatives? Was it your artistic works?
> lurking in the dark, trying to avoid the grues.
Dilemmas, dilemmas. Well, that's what keeps life from getting boring. You could learn camouflage and hide in plain sight in broad daylight. My preference would be to hack the GPS system, so that when SWATted, the cops break down the wrong door.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday March 04 2020, @03:14PM
There are crazy people on all sides. If you want to totally protect yourself from them, you need to become a hermit and live in a cave somewhere.
The ordinary people vastly outnumber the crazies. At least I like to think so.
Even if you disagree with someone about politics or public policy ideas, you can still have a respectful conversation with them. Maybe it is even good to try to understand other people's point of view, and maybe they will try to understand yours.
While I did not and would not vote for Trump, I don't automatically label all conservatives as some kind of evil mob. Echo chambers don't help anyone. Obviously there are a lot of people who wanted Trump for some reason. Maybe this leads to asking a question.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Tuesday March 03 2020, @09:31PM
> I want to live exactly as long as I can do useful productive work, and then be done.
Wow you think just like those old robots. WHIRRRRR YES MASTER CLICK CLICK CLICK.
Your comment just won you a gold medal, it's from the INPS (Italian pension system, officially; unofficially the Institute for Neutralizing the Parasites of Society).
Of course, given that the INPS has barely enough money to survive for a month every month, the gold medal has a diameter of 3 nanometers and will be delivered to you, eventually, via atmospheric currents.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday March 03 2020, @09:08PM (3 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday March 03 2020, @09:35PM (2 children)
I work in medical device design - our CEO spends a tremendous amount of breath on "outcome based compensation," but at the end of the quarter what is measured and what our bonuses are driven by is: Earnings Per Share, and that's currently 99.9% driven by a combination of capital equipment and disposables sales with a small slice of services thrown in. The "pay for outcome" model is, after many years, still little more than talk.
Dead people don't pay, old and especially infirm ones generate LOTS of billables. The reports and research give lots of attention to quality of life, but the people with their hands on the patients (and in their pockets) get paid per procedure - almost the opposite of quality of life based decision making.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday March 04 2020, @12:26AM (1 child)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday March 04 2020, @02:47AM
Our beancounters are well trained, counting beans is all they do. The executive staff are the highly refined two-faced crew, espousing everything in terms of "the mission" which conveniently has components to appease Wall Street, Employees Quality of Life, Patients Quality of Care, etc. However, even though we normally meet and exceed expected EPS measures, lack of over-performance on that side seems to be the perennial excuse for why we're not doing more things like innovating technology, implementing innovative payment models, hiring sufficient testing staff to meet deadlines, etc.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 03 2020, @10:51PM