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Open Source Initiative bans co-founder, Eric S Raymond:
Last week, Eric S Raymond (often known as ESR, author of The Cathedral and the Bazaar, and co-founder of the Open Source Intiative) was banned from the Open Source Intiative[sic] (the "OSI").
Specifically, Raymond was banned from the mailing lists used to organize and communicate with the OSI.
For an organization to ban their founder from communicating with the group (such as via a mailing list) is a noteworthy move.
At a time when we have seen other founders (of multiple Free and Open Source related initiatives) pushed out of the organizations they founded (such as with Richard Stallman being compelled to resign from the Free Software Foundation, or the attempts to remove Linus Torvalds from the Linux Kernel – both of which happened within the last year) it seems worth taking a deeper look at what, specifically, is happening with the Open Source Initiative.
I don't wish to tell any of you what you should think about this significant move. As such I will simply provide as much of the relevant information as I can, show the timeline of events, and reach out to all involved parties for their points of view and comments.
The author provides links to — and quotations from — entries on the mailing list supporting this. There is also a conversation the author had with ESR. The full responses he received to his queries are posted, as well.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday March 11 2020, @02:06AM (29 children)
Free of charge doesn't mean free of liability. You might help someone build a fence for free, but if you harm them in doing so, you'll have your ass sued.
Disclaimers of liability don't hold up in court. Ask Microsoft. They disclaim all liability for the harm done by the update to Windows 10, but one woman took them to court and got $10,090.00. (Don't be a lazy asshole and ask for a link - just search for "woman wins $10,000 against Microsoft. I don't do link requests any more for lazy people).
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by khallow on Wednesday March 11 2020, @03:34AM (28 children)
Let's look at that more closely. We have stuff [seattletimes.com] like this:
That's not a legally valid contract. I can't tell whether the woman who won the $10,000 from Microsoft was indeed victim of a similar scheme, but this isn't software being operated for a risky purpose for which it wasn't intended. And for someone who doesn't even know what Windows 10 is, much less how to revert it to an older version, how are they going to know what of their other critical software is going to break when they, whether intentionally or not, upgrade to Windows 10?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 11 2020, @05:36AM
They aren't, that's the point.
Microsoft hates you actually having control of any computer, even those you technically own. Big Tech does not want you to have computers, to control computers, or to have any way to stop them from deciding what you may and may not do with any computer you come into contact with, including accessing information, making content, or running software that they disapprove of.
Big Tech wants to own your data, your use of a computer, your computer period, and through these, you. Never, ever forget that.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by barbara hudson on Wednesday March 11 2020, @07:59AM (26 children)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by janrinok on Wednesday March 11 2020, @08:37AM (13 children)
So khallow went and found a link to an article in the Seattle Times, and provided quotes from it. You discovered that his quote didn't support your argument. And so you replied with this:
If you want to prove your argument - PROVIDE THE LINKS THAT SUPPORT IT! Don't blame others for finding links that contradict your point of view. khallow did as you told him to do. but he found a different slant to the story than the one you want to portray. That is your problem, not his. Then calling someone names:
... is simply wrong, because it was you who was too lazy to back up your own statements and claims. It is not the readers' responsibility - it is yours.
(Score: 0, Troll) by barbara hudson on Wednesday March 11 2020, @03:39PM (11 children)
Shallow khallow did no such thing. I made reference to a specific judgment, where a woman went to use her computer and found that, without any interaction from her, it had attempted an upgrade to Windows 10 and failed. Shallow khallow was too lazy to actually do what I said - search for "woman wins $10,000 judgment against Microsoft", and instead replaced it with a bunch of suppositions of how it MIGHT have happened.
Shallow khallow is a troll. And he trolled you but good. Read what I wrote, do the search I suggested, and you'll see the story. Not some bullshit in the Seattle Times that had NOTHING to do with the scenario that actually happened.
Shallow Khallow is the same as "pee ina cup" fusty - posts bullshit all the time, but never anything with any sort of personal background, because it's a troll account.
Shallow khallow did NOT present anything that contradicted my post about the woman getting $10,000 - instead he tried to do the whole "victim blaming" thing. You might fall for it - I don't. Don't be angry at me - be angry at yourself for being another of shallow khallow's suckers.
As for "not backing up my post" - look at what happened to you. Instead of actually doing your own research, or even just searching for "woman wins $10,000.00 judgment against Microsoft" you fell for Shallow khallow's link, which had nothing to do with what I posted, and did not reflect the actual events of the case. Do your own research - how hard is it anyway? How hard is it for you to search for "woman wins $10,000.00 judgment against Microsoft" anyway?
Sheesh!
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Wednesday March 11 2020, @04:33PM (7 children)
I know exactly who or what khallow is - I've been on this site a while.
But nevertheless, he should not have to prove your claims.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday March 12 2020, @01:47AM (4 children)
And yet he trolled you but good, didn't he?
And that's a nice deflection from my point - I provided the easiest way for INDEPENDENT confirmation - you doing the search yourself with the search term "Woman wins $10,000.00 from Microsoft." That allows anyone to do their own verification, without any possibility of me being selective or bias in choosing what comes up.
That search term proves what I wrote. The first 10 results all do. I'm not saying take my word for it or take whatever link I post as the authoritative source - unlike Shallow khallow. He played you.
It is not up to me to prove anything - when I'm in the real world, people are free to grab their phone and verify anything I say. That's what I expect of people, that they use initiative to verify things that they don't believe.
I'll even give sufficient information (you know, clues and stuff) so that others can, if they're at all clued in, do their own research and come to an independent conclusion. Same as I would expect an independent review in business. Same as I would expect in school. Same as I would expect normal people to do in any common-life scenario.
So what makes the Internet different? In reality, nothing. However, people have this stupid idea that"netiquete" obliges you to connect all the dots for everyone, educate them, provide them with links, and then get into stupid arguments about whether the links you selected were biased. I don't play that shitty game any more, because the trolls like shalkow khallow like to use misdirection, misrepresentation, etc., to "make their case".
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 12 2020, @02:35AM (1 child)
Claims require evidence. Full stop.
You made a claim and didn't provide evidence.
Janrinok is correct and you're (as usual) talking out of your ass.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Sunday March 15 2020, @04:56PM
Wrong. The internet has warped people's behaviour. When someone tells you what traffic is like, do you demand proof? When someone says that bananas are on sale do you demand proof? When someone tells you that they got a raise, do you demand to see their old and new paycheques? When someone tells you who they voted for, do you demand proof?
And yet the internet is somehow different. Screw that. Don't believe me, no skin off my nose. I . OWE . YOU . NOTHING .
Same as everyone else on the internet.
It's amazing that demanding the same level of discourse online as offline is seen as so radical.
Explain to me and everyone else how there's some sort of requirement for anyone to prove anything they post on the internet. And then explain how you are violating that rule by refusing to post using your real identity, but that's somehow okay, because internet.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Thursday March 12 2020, @07:06AM (1 child)
And people are free to consider you to be making inaccurate and unsubstantiated claims. Not only in this thread, but in every comment you make in the future. As I have already said, this is not Twitter...
No. I have not said that I agree with what khallow claims either. But you left yourself wide open and then complained when you found the response was not what you wanted.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Sunday March 15 2020, @04:33PM
In normal human interaction, when someone makes a statement, if the other person chooses not to believe it, it's not up to the person making it to prove anything. That's my stance online as well now, because there are too many bunfights over "you said it - now prove it" and "your citation is biased" and other stupidity.
If I tell someone that all cruise ships with 500 or more passengers are banned from all ports in the country, and they choose not to believe it, how is that my problem? Hint: it's not. If someone is heading to an NHL game and I tell them the season has been suspended so don't bother going, it's not up to me to "prove" it. They're free not to believe me.
IOW, my stance is the same as people in the real world. I am not responsible either for your beliefs or your education or your inability to find things. That things are, for some stupid reason. different on the Internet is an example of how dysfunctional the Internet makes people, same as smartphones and social media turn people into zombies.
People with think what they want to think. Look at all the Trumpsters who continue to believe the idiot-in-chief. "There are only 15 cases of the virus, and they will soon be gone. Anyone who wants can get tested. It's a conspiracy by the Democrats." You will never convince them otherwise, and it's not your problem to do so.
I'm not all that invested in the online world - it's more for relieving boredom than anything else. It will never change my life. I take it for what it is. I think it would be nice if people could put the Internet in what I consider a more rational perspective, but you're free to do what you want.
Just that you cannot find any error in my proposition, that it's not my job to find shit of other people, and they're free to believe what they want to as a (very minor, even minuscule) consequence.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 12 2020, @02:31AM (1 child)
Just so you know, I did take her advice and search for the term she wanted (here is the results of said search [urlscan.io]). The top 10 articles all reference the same Teri Goldstein case as khallow was talking about. You know the one where Microsoft lost because there was no legally-valid contract because she never agreed to one because closing the pop up did not count as a manifestation of consent to be bound.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Sunday March 15 2020, @04:37PM
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 12 2020, @01:08AM (2 children)
I checked the link khallow posted, and the first 6 paragraphs are exactly about the specific judgement you allude too.
It's pretty clear by now the biggest troll on this site is YOU.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 12 2020, @02:03AM
If only people started moderating her as such, instead of supporting her because their politics mostly align.
(Score: 1, Redundant) by barbara hudson on Thursday March 12 2020, @02:24AM
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday March 12 2020, @08:19AM
Oh, janrinok, if only you could perceive the depths of hell you open up with this statement. Normal people are not required to cite common knowledge to right-wing nut-job potential-mass-shooter trolls on the internets, let alone on SoylentNews. So, you are simply wrong, janrinok. Simply double down do it wrong. Not the first time.
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Wednesday March 11 2020, @12:17PM (2 children)
Please don't swear.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 12 2020, @02:36AM
Fuck that noise!
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday March 12 2020, @02:45AM
Profanity is the crutch of the inarticulate motherfucker.
(Score: 2, Touché) by khallow on Wednesday March 11 2020, @01:21PM (6 children)
Well, consider yourself called out and being held to the standards you claim to have. I get that you don't have infinite time to follow every link nor did I describe what was at my link, further selecting a quote that would reasonably lead to the impression the link wasn't about the lawsuit, but my linked story was indeed about the lawsuit.
Even if it weren't, it's still a pretty sloppy assumption to make that I didn't read about the lawsuit.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by barbara hudson on Wednesday March 11 2020, @03:42PM (3 children)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 11 2020, @04:01PM (2 children)
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday March 12 2020, @08:21AM (1 child)
The preferred nomenclature is: "my dear and fluffy khallow". Or at least it is with me. I will always treasure that time in Cody. . .
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday March 13 2020, @04:11AM
(Score: 0, Redundant) by barbara hudson on Wednesday March 11 2020, @04:10PM (1 child)
You're a troll. Everyone knows it. Get over it. Take your place beside pee in a cup fusty, shallow khallow.
You obviously don't know my standards. They include total disrespect for trolls like you. Your account has all the earmarks of a troll account, same as fusty's did.
Expect to be called out once in a while when you piss me off.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Wednesday March 11 2020, @04:43PM
And if anyone doesn't know it, you're being very proactive in telling them.
I count four posts under this article so far?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 11 2020, @08:29PM (1 child)
Please stop using abusive language.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 12 2020, @03:21AM
She won't do that because the "abusive language" is all you've got when you operate in a fact free zone.