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'Right to repair' taken up by the ACCC in farmers' fight to fix their own tractors:
The 'right to repair' movement has finally bent the ear of Australia's competition and consumer watchdog, the ACCC, in its pleas to be able to fix their own farm equipment.
[...] Farmers have emerged as an unlikely force in the global right to repair movement.
The movement eschews the disposable culture of consumer electronics in favour of letting independent repairers and home tinkerers fix broken smartphones, tablets, and laptops.
Proponents want access to the code that makes modern machines hum, putting them at loggerheads with tech giants including Apple who own the proprietary software.
In the United States, farmers have risked voiding their warranties by hacking their own John Deere tractors with torrented software so they can carry out their own repairs.
[...] In its first deep dive into the modern agricultural machinery market, the ACCC published its discussion paper on the matter in late February and is seeking accounts from those who buy and use farm machinery, or repair it for a living.
"Broadacre croppers with large tractors, harvesters, seeders … and particularly tractors seem to be an area of some contention," Mr Keogh said.
"We have heard from dealers who say that they have no issues with providing service, yet we hear from independent service providers that they can't get access to the [software] diagnostic tools they need.
"In some cases they can't get access to the [manufacturers'] parts they need.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by DannyB on Wednesday April 22 2020, @02:32PM (26 children)
<no-sarcasm>
The problem only seems to be that independent service providers can't get parts, technical information, etc.
The real problem is that technology is being used to DRM the farm machinery for no good reason. There is no good reason that a farmer should not be able to replace, say, a fender, without needing a special fender that has the right microchips in it to communicate with the main tractor and get updates. This is as evil as something I would expect from Lexmark, Oracle, Microsoft or even IBM back in their heyday.
Legislators need to keep their eye on the ball (the real problem) and not be distracted by the symptom (can't get parts, tech info, etc). The real solution is to ban this practice such that any independent service provider could design and produce their own spare parts. I would go so far that there should be nothing preventing a 3rd party from building spare parts for every single part of the entire tractor, such that an entire tractor could be assembled from completely 3rd party components. In theory. There may not be a market for spares of some parts, like, just saying, engine blocks.
In the large scope there shouldn't be any impediments to anyone building parts and servicing any type of vehicle or large machine. Monopolies are bad. They always have been. They always will be. No good comes from a monopoly -- in the long run. They only serve to artificially inflate prices. Just look at Big Pharma.
</no-sarcasm>
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Wednesday April 22 2020, @03:04PM (18 children)
You're right that this would make absolutely zero sense in an economy geared towards maximizing efficiency, human well-being, or environmental health. However, like a lot of other stupidity going on right now, it makes perfect sense in an economy geared towards maximizing return-on-investment for a relative handful of rich people. Now, I know the many defenders of late-stage capitalism think that one day, through faith, courage, hard work, and belief in the system, they'll one day become one of that relative handful of rich people, but I can pretty much guarantee that they won't be unless they were born into it.
Of course, when the laws get ridiculous enough, people will stop following them enough that it will be impossible to enforce it against most offenders, and soon we'll have rogue farm equipment mechanics sneaking into barns to illegally fix people's tractors.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @03:18PM (16 children)
Right. Capitalism. That's the problem.
Not a government dictating what people can do with the knowledge in their brains.
Oh no, not just capitalism, it's late-stage capitalism. Run for the hills!
This is pretty much how we find the people who think they understand economics in the twenty-first century, based on misinterpretations of the nineteenth.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Wednesday April 22 2020, @03:22PM
<no-sarcasm>
Capitalism run amok is the problem.
As I said, Monopolies are not good for anyone but the monopolists and those they can bribe. That is why once upon a time there were some laws that were enforced. Before capitalism allowed the buying and selling of laws, regulations, politicians, and justice.
</no-sarcasm>
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Wednesday April 22 2020, @03:23PM (14 children)
Late-stage capitalism is where capitalist businesses have bought the government, and are using that to write the rules the economy is using to their own advantage. A government could say "That's not an appropriate use of copyright protection", but they won't, because government answers to the corporations that are benefiting from that misuse of copyright protection rather than the other way around.
The really strange thing, though, isn't that politicians and the government they control are on the take from certain businesses, but how many non-politicians who don't control major businesses are actively supporting that practice. Which is why I think it's worth reminding those folks that no, you aren't going to be in the big club that runs things no matter what you do.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @04:46PM (13 children)
Was James Watt a "late-stage capitalist"? [jalopnik.com] The market acts against monopoly rents - what happened to Sun Microsystems business model when faced with commodity suppliers? The moment a large company misses a beat and it becomes cheaper for someone else to manufacture and service that item, that is the moment the large company loses that market. Even examples of longevity have there limit when profitability dips below the overhead costs for a large corporation - which is why GE are to cease manufacturing light bulbs.
... but you can order David Icke's latest book on amazon dot com!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @05:38PM (9 children)
Soooo you want to allow bad behavior that harms markets and customers because someday the monopolist will fuck up and lose their market capture?
That is your logic, really?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @06:35PM (8 children)
More a theory of moral sentiments tbh
(Score: 2) by gtomorrow on Wednesday April 22 2020, @07:53PM (7 children)
More a "I can't tell the difference between theory and practice" tbh. Or possibly more a "I got mine, pull up the lifeline" line of thinking, a school of thought unfortunately pervasive here. Or maybe more an empathy impairment due to some unknown brain trauma/social dysfunction To Be Perfectly Honest. Or maybe we're all just feeding the troll.
I seriously, seriously, seriously think the Voight-Kampff needs to be applied before anyone can post.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @08:01PM (6 children)
You would fail that test, you've clearly never read Aristotle or much else. [wikipedia.org]
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @08:44PM (1 child)
troll feeding it is
get lost scrip face!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @11:53PM
When you've finished with Smith, cover Aristotle [libertyfund.org] and come back when you have a grown-up argument in place of silly name calling. 150 years to the day since the birth of Lenin and some people have not only failed to learn but would willingly repeat the disaster.
(Score: 2) by gtomorrow on Thursday April 23 2020, @06:38AM (3 children)
Yes...feeding the troll it is.
And thank you sincerely for clarifying. You squarely fall in the "can't tell theory from practice" camp (possibly Asperger related) with some Venn diagram overlap into the other categories I'd mentioned. Possibly also with some socially-sanctioned "greed is good" sociopathy involved.
Get lost, squirt.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 23 2020, @01:05PM (2 children)
Did you ever think that instead of siding with the screeching child demanding a proverbial lollipop from someone else, you should instead help them make their own lollipops? What happens when that self-entitled child goes on to kill in order to deprive someone else of their property or was that your intention all along? Sociopathy may be characterized by a sense of entitlement and the employ of pity as a faux justification for anti-social acts. It's not by accident that those who complain the loudest about how "unfair" capitalism is also produce nothing of value. Here is the pro-social stance "you have no right to other peoples stuff".
But let's hammer those nails home on poor suffering Jesus and discuss Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. [scrapsfromtheloft.com]
An easy assumption would be that replicants were psychopaths but how would that scale to explain what happened in Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union? If you're familiar with the Milgram experiment, you already understand social pathology. The only person having publicly spelled it out in recent years was Jordan Peterson who lectured extensively on both the evils of collectivist societies and Jungian psychology. [wikipedia.org] Are the 66% of people who become monsters in variations on the Milgram experiment sociopaths, were Germans under Hitler or Russians under Stalin? Would the public in these societies describe themselves as evil, did they have integrated personalities with full self-awareness or were they accepting of authority and going along to get along?
So you see, you must be able to answer the inverse of the Voight-Kampff test; not "why aren't..." but "why are..."? That's where the questions get really interesting and if you're going along to get along like the nazi concentration camp guard, 66% of people in the Milgram test or people with no understanding of nicomachean ethics and the Jungian shadow (who routinely project their own subconscious onto others) - then you fail the test!
I fear you are lost, perhaps your father should have used a tissue? Then again there's only so much we can say about the successful practice of capitalism Vs the failed theory of socialism (AKA: sociopathy). Perhaps next time if only you make those "evil capitalists" wear badges or something?
(Score: 2) by gtomorrow on Thursday April 23 2020, @02:53PM (1 child)
Hey, thanks for the laughs, coward. At very least your disconnected ravings seem eloquent.
Note to self: I really have to stop dogwhistling to the insane.
I'm still convinced of your theory/practice resolution problems, tho. Go out and get some sun. No, really...I mean right now. And remember to take deep breaths.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 23 2020, @07:42PM
My pleasure although "coward" here implies personal privacy, the term "anonymous coward" was always a joke but true cowardice is no joke. [aristotelianphilosophy.com] As Jung once observed:
Virtue signaling is not a new phenomenon. "Socialists" then; clearly not taught to respect the rights of others [psycom.net] yet somehow perpetual victims. [wikipedia.org] A line of wrong-think that enabled them to slaughter the Kulaks. Socialists consider themselves entitled to other peoples labor but are too cowardly to call themselves slavers. Are they sticking up for the oppressed against the oppressor are they?
And those who can't start their own business because the sociopath told them they couldn't, that there's some shadowy cabal intent on holding them back. [kafka-online.info] Failure is baked-in to the lives of sociopaths, aspiration and success threatens them. As if anyone can stop you making the moral choice to start a company to manufacture ice-lollies or tractors. LMFAO!!!
(Score: 2) by SpockLogic on Wednesday April 22 2020, @08:35PM
David Icke spouts bollocks and is a dick and was so when he was a BBC bowls commentator.
Overreacting is one thing, sticking your head up your ass hoping the problem goes away is another - edIII
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday April 22 2020, @11:48PM (1 child)
Which is true. That is exactly why capital has been purchasing stricter and longer lasting IP laws over the last 50 years or so.
Markets are hard, and what they really want is control. Which they have.
This is one of the points made in the article.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 23 2020, @12:14AM
Copying is cheap but R&D is an expensive sunk cost that a business and investors have to recover before profit. Nothing here dictates being an asshole and annoying your customers, so why people are reading my comments as a defense of JD is a mystery to me?
We've seen industrial manufacturers trying to withhold schematics for decades, their equipment (and the brand) ends up being devalued. What deprecation on a John Deere when the resale collapses because the company will not support it after 10 years?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 23 2020, @11:13AM
Sure, but capitalism is everywhere and will always be. There is as much wrong with capitalism as there is with getting sunburnt. Our societies on earth have decided to be different on how to regulate capitalism, some wish no regulation at all and some adapt capitalism as a tool to better society by organising workers and employers manifesting in negotiations that benefit everyone, and it works because not even the workers want capitalism to break down - who would have known? In my country the state is a passive third party that only step in if things hardlock. We have plenty of rich business owners, who live in fine houses in expensive parts of town and get to buy expensive things and they deserve it.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday April 22 2020, @05:46PM (1 child)
I agree wholeheartedly, in principle. In practice, this means independent design reviews between competitors, or maybe worse: by independent reviewers of dubious knowledge and intent, and endless bickering.
I favor a form of incentivization - something like a tax on new product that is slowly refunded as that product is used. Want to sell a $500K combine? Fine, there's a $100K tax on that. Similar combines are similarly taxed. Now: the combines which have the lowest cost of ownership over the next 20+ years will get their taxes refunded, perhaps even bonused for exceptional performance as compared to the rest of the market. The scheme is vulnerable to monopoly/collusion behavior in the industry, but if Joe Farmer can put out a reasonable combine that has lower cost of ownership, he can get massive tax incentives that will help him compete against the big boys who are milking the market.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by sjames on Wednesday April 22 2020, @06:56PM
It worked pretty well everywhere before manufacturers discovered DRM. It's why there's such a variety of manufacturers for various USB things, ethernet devices, automotive air and oil filters (and often engine parts) etc, etc, etc.
You should look into the world of 3D printing. Not necessarily from the standpoint of actually doing any yourself, but to see what can happen in an ecosystem where specs are open. Rather than a $2000 American made printer, I bought a $200 Chinese made printer. I have the firmware source and complete mechanical drawings. The steppers are industry standard. I could have sourced all of the parts 3rd party and built my own, but it was cheaper and easier to buy it (partially) pre-assembled from them. It works every bit as well as the $2000 American devices. The big difference is the housing. The Chinese printer has none. That is actually an advantage. I can get at any part of it easily and visually check it for proper operation (it's not like it has whirling blades or fast moving belts and shafts to catch limbs).
If U.S. manufacturers don't hop on that bandwagon, they will indeed be replaced, by manufacturers in other countries. In the world of heavy equipment, I'm seeing a lot more Kubota and Mahindra than I used to. The big three in Detroit thought they had a lock on the U.S. market in the early '70s. Now they're looking like also-rans and Detroit is a shambles.
American manufacturers need right to repair laws to save them from themselves.
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Wednesday April 22 2020, @06:17PM (1 child)
Except that legislative engineering is where the impetus for much of the proprietary electronics comes from. John Deere's excuse for locking down their hardware is emissions controls. For more examples just look at airbags or tire pressure monitoring systems. Even a seat or a wheel needs sensors in it now.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday April 22 2020, @06:45PM
Exactly: excuse. Lack of legislation would not change this behavior, only the excuses used for it.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Touché) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday April 22 2020, @07:09PM
Said no monopoly CEO, Board of Directors, or shareholder, ever.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by inertnet on Wednesday April 22 2020, @09:18PM (1 child)
I think part of the problem is the claim culture. Manufacturers use this DRM type repair system to avoid having to disprove claims, by users who messed up their equipment in an unprofessional way.
They've found a way to immediately trow out any claim where machinery was repaired by unqualified people.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday April 22 2020, @09:33PM
That may be a side effect, but I doubt it is the primary motive.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.