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posted by Fnord666 on Friday May 01 2020, @11:04AM   Printer-friendly
from the resistance-is-futile.-/home-will-be-assimilated dept.

Good News:

Linux home directory management is about to undergo major change:

With systemd 245 comes systemd-homed. Along with that, Linux admins will have to change the way they manage users and users' home directories.

[...] Prior to systemd every system and resource was managed by its own tool, which was clumsy and inefficient. Now? Controlling and managing systems on Linux is incredibly easy.

But one of the creators, Leannart Poettering, has always considered systemd to be incomplete. With the upcoming release of systemd 245, Poettering will take his system one step closer to completion. That step is by way of homed.

[...] let's take a look at the /home directory. This is a crucial directory in the Linux filesystem hierarchy, as it contains all user data and configurations. For some admins, this directory is so important, it is often placed on a separate partition or drive than the operating system. By doing this, user data is safe, even if the operating system were to implode.

However, the way /home is handled within the operating system makes migrating the /home directory not nearly as easy as it should be. Why? With the current iteration of systemd, user information (such as ID, full name, home directory, and shell) is stored in /etc/passwd and the password associated with that user is stored in /etc/shadow. The /etc/passwd file can be viewed by anyone, whereas /etc/shadow can only be viewed by those with admin or sudo privileges.

[...] Poettering has decided to make a drastic change. That change is homed. With homed, all information will be placed in a cryptographically signed JSON record for each user. That record will contain all user information such as username, group membership, and password hashes.

Each user home directory will be linked as LUKS-encrypted containers, with the encryption directly coupled to user login. Once systemd-homed detects a user has logged in, the associated home directory is decrypted. Once that user logs out, the home directory is automatically encrypted.

[...] Of course, such a major change doesn't come without its share of caveats. In the case of systemd-homed, that caveat comes by way of SSH. If a systemd-homed home directory is encrypted until a user successfully logs in, how will users be able to log in to a remote machine with SSH?

The big problem with that is the .ssh directory (where SSH stores known_hosts and authorized_keys) would be inaccessible while the user's home directory is encrypted. Of course Poettering knows of this shortcoming. To date, all of the work done with systemd-homed has been with the standard authentication process. You can be sure that Poettering will come up with a solution that takes SSH into consideration.

Older articles:

Will systemd be considered complete once the kernel and boot loader have been absorbed into systemd?


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Dr Spin on Friday May 01 2020, @12:02PM (42 children)

    by Dr Spin (5239) on Friday May 01 2020, @12:02PM (#988879)

    Didn't your granny ever tell you "Don't put all your eggs in one basket
    Especially if systemd has been within 10 furlongs of of the basket.

    Every time I get an update to my Ubuntu system, resolv.conf gets totally fucked. No matter how I remove symlinks, make it immutable, write protected, etc.

    Listen Poettering, If I remove your symlink, and mark my resolv.conf as un-writeable by anyone - leave the fuck alone. When the sign says "do not touch" don't bloody touch it, OK?

    All my other systems use OpenBSD - and they don't keep getting fucked by unexpected updates. I have had two year uptimes (obviously not on internet connected systems). Unix was fine before you got involved. Go and lock yourself down, and don't come back.

    --
    Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
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  • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2020, @12:11PM (38 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2020, @12:11PM (#988884)

    Linux is open source. If you don't like the way systemd handles your resolv.conf file, then just fork systemd, make the changes you want, review the license agreement with your lawyers, write a Code of Conduct for your fork, and then your problem's fixed.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by SemperOSS on Friday May 01 2020, @12:22PM (8 children)

      by SemperOSS (5072) on Friday May 01 2020, @12:22PM (#988891)

      So, let me get this right, you think that instead of complaining of a completely strange and unnecessary behaviour that does not make sense, people should fork the program and correct it themselves?

      That, unfortunately, is not a viable solution for most people … and not a good solution either. The problem with systemd is that Lennart Poettering does not listen to anyone but himself and that he does not care whether what he creates makes sense or not, whether it adds value or not. He wants it and most of the rest of the Linux world has to suffer!

      I still wonder how a person with such traits as LP's ever got so much power and why some people thinks he is such a genius?


      --
      I don't need a signature to draw attention to myself.
      Maybe I should add a sarcasm warning now and again?
      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Friday May 01 2020, @03:13PM (6 children)

        by Grishnakh (2831) on Friday May 01 2020, @03:13PM (#989001)

        So, let me get this right, you think that instead of complaining of a completely strange and unnecessary behaviour that does not make sense, people should fork the program and correct it themselves?

        Did you miss the bit about the Code of Conduct?

        Honestly, some people are really sarcasm-impaired; this should have been totally obviously from the AC's post.

        I still wonder how a person with such traits as LP's ever got so much power and why some people thinks he is such a genius?

        This is just human psychology. I've seen it many times. I can't quite explain it myself (if I could reliably predict it, I'd probably be very wealthy), but it seems that people love to latch onto certain outspoken people as "visionaries" or somesuch, and form cult followings around them. I saw this at a former workplace: half the employees seemed to have an almost cult-like following for the department head, and always spoke in glowing terms about him. It was really bizarre. The guy wasn't a bad guy or anything, but he wasn't any "visionary" or genius, he was just a guy in a suit. He wasn't even particularly inspiring when he did speeches at department meetings. I think a lot of it is confidence and putting yourself out there; lots of people like to be followers and look for someone to follow. It's how actual cults get started and go as far as they do, even sometimes to drinking Kool-aid.

        • (Score: 5, Interesting) by RS3 on Friday May 01 2020, @04:57PM (5 children)

          by RS3 (6367) on Friday May 01 2020, @04:57PM (#989041)

          Thank you, you beat me to it. I've been misunderstood when I thought the sarcasm was very obvious, so I now include /s or something for those who don't (understandably) get it.

          I don't mind things like systemd, if they're optional. But it really is taking over.

          I think the reason Poettering et al are rewarded is what has been my biggest gripe for 30+ years- non-technical people are making technical decisions that they have NO business making. Space Shuttle Challenger is a huge example I often refer to. Engineers said "don't launch, it will blow up", managers said "we're boss, launch". I had hoped the world would learn, yet the problem continues.

          Certain people have some kind of sales appeal that the MBA / manager-types like. It involves a certain amount of polished BS. If I was really smart, I'd have either changed careers, or learned the craft. But I'm so ethically opposed to BS that I can't do it.

          I've heard, several times, that when you present something to a boss, you have to carefully orchestrate and present the various options to pretty much steer the boss into the correct one. We tech-types are too open with info, and the bosses often just don't get it. Their huge egos make them act like they get it, and they have to be assertive to hold their boss position (and hide their ignorance). The few times I've done it I feel like I've done something dirty and unethical, and that I've played into and perpetuated a very broken system. A great recent example is Boeing 737 MAX killing machine. And from what I'm reading, they STILL don't get it. I wish I could see an answer...

          • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Friday May 01 2020, @06:47PM (3 children)

            by Grishnakh (2831) on Friday May 01 2020, @06:47PM (#989102)

            I think the reason Poettering et al are rewarded is what has been my biggest gripe for 30+ years- non-technical people are making technical decisions that they have NO business making.

            I don't follow here. Poettering *is* a technical person. You may not agree with his technical direction, but he's not some dumb manager who doesn't know how to write code, he's the principal programmer for systemd. There are a fair number of technical people who cross over into leadership roles, with differing levels of success.

            A great recent example is Boeing 737 MAX killing machine. And from what I'm reading, they STILL don't get it.

            True, but even here, the disgraced CEO, Dennis Muilenberg, was himself an engineer before he rose to the executive ranks. The new guy who's trying to hunt down employees who've complained by email, however, is not.

            • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Friday May 01 2020, @07:57PM (2 children)

              by RS3 (6367) on Friday May 01 2020, @07:57PM (#989156)

              Is Poettering RedHat CEO? CFO? Point is, there are layers of management above him that approved systemd becoming integral to RedHat Linux. My complaint: they did not make it optional.

              If you don't understand corporate management, the "Dilbert Principal", and others, that's okay.

              That Muilenberg became CEO doesn't mean he was ever a good engineer. Perhaps he was and is a good engineer, but had no idea what was going on with MCAS. I fault FAA as much or more BTW. FAA trusted Boeing. Lazy indifference. Proof: 2nd plane killed months later. And there were many many reports of huge problems with 737 MAX (MCAS at work). Broken system.

              You can be a good manager and not be technical. But don't overrule your technical staff when they raise a red flag. It's bad for morale. So is the resulting death.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 02 2020, @02:05AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 02 2020, @02:05AM (#989296)

                The non-technical directors are used only in cases where the corporation has switched from selling a good or service to focusing on playing the stock market and other investments. Take Nokia as an example. They have been getting out of the hardware business since Microsoft's Elop delivered the fatal blow. They have some networking left, but that won't be around another decade with the new non-technical CEO unless they really make a credible move to show they are serious about it. Other companies do the same thing once they get large enough these days.

                They bring in a non-technical CEO who brings in lays off the non-technical staff and quickly displace and lay off the technical staff. The appearance of makeing or selling something is kept but just the appearance. Behind that fascade they buy and sell stock, funds or portfolios.

              • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Saturday May 02 2020, @08:08AM

                by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 02 2020, @08:08AM (#989380) Journal

                Yes they did - it is optional, at the user's discretion.

          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2020, @06:59PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2020, @06:59PM (#989108)

            I think the reason Poettering et al are rewarded is what has been my biggest gripe for 30+ years- non-technical people are making technical decisions that they have NO business making.

            Poettering and friends are arrogant, not incompetent. They understand "fundamental OS design principles" but fail to grok unix or the mysterious text-based world we were initiated into where every command had it's own hidden lore to be passed down through the generations.

            Space Shuttle Challenger is a huge example I often refer to. Engineers said "don't launch, it will blow up", managers said "we're boss, launch". I had hoped the world would learn, yet the problem continues.

            I've recently been drawing parallels with this event in the context of a committee from a well known world organization that has repeatedly made the wrong calls. No authority without responsibility, these two immutably linked concepts give rise to accountability. If an engineer or medical doctor makes a wrong call, it's malpractice. Political appointees cannot have authority if they are not responsible and if they are not held to account they had no authority - those who appointed them must be held accountable. The rot is setting in with the "every child gets a prize" mindset that millennials bring to the table, no concept of losing having taken responsibility and failed.

      • (Score: 2) by meustrus on Friday May 01 2020, @07:50PM

        by meustrus (4961) on Friday May 01 2020, @07:50PM (#989150)

        Fully acknowledging GP was being snarky...

        If forking the program and correcting it yourself is not viable, then free software is broken. We need to be capable of fixing problems without consulting the Grand Vizier, and sometimes that's only possible with a fork.

        Hell, the idea that we have different Linux "distributions" to begin with is only possible because of forking. Maybe systemd breaks the premise of that system.

        Or maybe we should give up on the idea of the One True Userspace Compatibility and truly fork the OS.

        I say this fully knowing that I still haven't tried BSD, that I'm becoming more invested in Linux because of Docker. But at least as long as I do stuff in Docker, I don't have to worry about system initialization anyway. Software is so much easier on commodity servers.

        --
        If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by epitaxial on Friday May 01 2020, @12:55PM (1 child)

      by epitaxial (3165) on Friday May 01 2020, @12:55PM (#988908)

      I'd like to know why a program meant for sequencing how items load during startup is concerned with DNS resolution?

      • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Friday May 01 2020, @11:54PM

        by RS3 (6367) on Friday May 01 2020, @11:54PM (#989263)

        Ever see the movie "The Blob"?

    • (Score: 2, Troll) by janrinok on Friday May 01 2020, @01:45PM (23 children)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 01 2020, @01:45PM (#988944) Journal

      Even easier, is just use a different distro. But for those of us who actually find systemd solves some problems then I will keep on using it. It hasn't been a major change in how I have to use my computer, but it is more powerful than its predecessors IMHO. Of course, you may disagree, but that is nothing worth arguing about. I'll bet we've decorated our homes differently too.

      • (Score: 4, Touché) by Arik on Friday May 01 2020, @01:49PM (8 children)

        by Arik (4543) on Friday May 01 2020, @01:49PM (#988947) Journal
        "it is more powerful than its predecessors"

        That's not a good thing. Think about it.

        What if your local dog-catcher had nuclear weapons?

        You would definitely have a more powerful dog-catcher. But what good would that be?
        --
        If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by janrinok on Friday May 01 2020, @02:05PM (6 children)

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 01 2020, @02:05PM (#988953) Journal

          What a ridiculous argument.

          Imagine a temporary problem with my network. Several parts of the system might stop working because they have lost connectivity. systemd knows which programs rely on the network and, when the temporary problem is resolved, it automatically restarts all the programs that need to be restarted. That is powerful and useful - but doesn't involve dog catchers or nuclear weapons.

          I'm not Dr Spin - I don't care whether you use systemd or not, but it is doing everything that I ask of it, and more than previous init systems did for me.

          • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Arik on Friday May 01 2020, @02:25PM (4 children)

            by Arik (4543) on Friday May 01 2020, @02:25PM (#988967) Journal
            "What a ridiculous argument."

            It's not a ridiculous argument at all. Making programs more powerful doesn't always or even often make them better programs. If take my init system and give it power over the entire system I don't get a better init, I just make the consequences of a bug in the init system much more severe.

            "Imagine a temporary problem with my network."

            OK.

            "Several parts of the system might stop working because they have lost connectivity."

            What? Why? That shouldn't be happening. Which parts specifically?

            "systemd knows which programs rely on the network and, when the temporary problem is resolved, it automatically restarts all the programs that need to be restarted."

            Well that sounds like slapping a bandaid on a gunshot wound. It would be better to fix the parts of your system that are faulty. Bandaids like automatically restarting a program can be applied with different tools.

            "it is doing everything that I ask of it"

            Perhaps you should think about what you are asking of it, and why.

            What I ask of an init system is to reliably start (init, get it?) my system, no less and no more.

            Once I have a shell prompt it needs to unload and get out of the way. If I need something restarted, that's the job of another program, not the init system.
            --
            If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
            • (Score: 1, Troll) by janrinok on Friday May 01 2020, @03:10PM (3 children)

              by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 01 2020, @03:10PM (#988999) Journal

              Bandaids like automatically restarting a program can be applied with different tools.

              I was with you until here - then you lost it.

              You admit by implication that there is a need to automatically restart programs because there are different tools for doing that job. So your objection is that they are perfectly acceptable but systemd isn't. Systemd wasn't written for the home user - it was initially targetted at instances running in the cloud. Have you tried manually restarting several thousand instances when necessary? No, I thought not. There it is very useful indeed. However, it can be equally useful on much small networks or even individual systems. You don't have to use any of it, if you don't wish. But many distros are looking at supporting more than just the home user or indeed larger networks. So they adopted a standard way of doing the things that their customers wanted to be done. And one of those things was to enable systems to keep themselves going when there are faults.

              I have no problem with those that don't want to use it - but the people on here complaining about it are mostly those who DO NOT use it. They tell us about how this distro or that distro is still free of systemd and therefore 'much better'. That's fine, but why argue about something that you do not use? Lots of us just get on with it. It works, I have no problems with it, it does what it says on the tin, and I have no need of paid support from Red Hat or anyone else. Why shouldn't I be able to use it if it does exactly what I want. And this feature - to me - is useful. I won't tell you what to install on your computers.

              Shall we argue about emacs/vi next or Python/Rust/Go?

              • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Arik on Friday May 01 2020, @03:59PM

                by Arik (4543) on Friday May 01 2020, @03:59PM (#989012) Journal
                "You admit by implication that there is a need to automatically restart programs because there are different tools for doing that job."

                Sure, in practice it's sometimes good to have a bandaid available. That doesn't mean we need to re-organize our entire lives around a full body suit that applies bandaids automatically.

                "So your objection is that they are perfectly acceptable but systemd isn't."

                My objection is that this is not how you build good tools. Systemd is an attempt to replace the entire toolbox with one robot.

                I can see how this idea can have some attraction - working with tools requires effort, and thought, and occasionally you skin a knuckle. It's so much easier just to turn the robot on and let it do all the work.

                But then we're left with no good tools, and completely dependent on the robot and its owner (hint, that is not you or I.)

                "it was initially targetted at instances running in the cloud."

                You mean in VMs right? "The cloud" is meaningless marketdroid speak.

                Look it might be very useful there. But if you want that functionality, implement it within the design of the system, or fork your own distro just for VMs and include shims so that you don't break things.

                "That's fine, but why argue about something that you do not use?"

                Because it's a well-funded commercial project that's not only openly aiming to destroy the free software infrastructure needed to support my continued ability to operate without them, but is already pretty far down that road.

                Yes, we still have other choices. And we'd like for that to continue to be the case. Operating systems do require maintenance. The more free software developers that get hornswoggled into using systemd, the more quickly that choice will disappear.
                --
                If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2020, @10:21PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2020, @10:21PM (#989237)

                Have you tried manually restarting several thousand instances when necessary?

                { for ip in $(cat ips.txt); do ssh -n "$ip" "whatever command" & done } >output.log 2>error.log

                Works pretty well for me when I need to do stuff on ~2400 VMs simultaneously. Which was pretty darn regular until last week when that project finished.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 02 2020, @05:56AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 02 2020, @05:56AM (#989348)

                  We do what one of my coworkers calls "FCUs" or ForceCommand Users. Just the act of authenticating with ssh with the right credentials triggers certain actions. Proper auditing and access control makes that stuff simple and a lot easier to find bad actions.

          • (Score: 2) by Bot on Friday May 01 2020, @08:31PM

            by Bot (3902) on Friday May 01 2020, @08:31PM (#989176) Journal

            > Several parts of the system might stop working because they have lost connectivity. systemd knows which programs rely on the network and, when the temporary problem is resolved, it automatically restarts all the programs that need to be restarted.

            This is breaking the principle of locality and modularity in software. Not to mention it needs more synchronization among devs of a probably different project and you have to learn and deal with potential issues in the DSL that tells systemd which programs need to be restarted under which conditions, which might not be the same for everyone... how much outage is tolerated? how many data hanging around or lost?

            What about this, a program dealing with networking is robust and deals with connectivity issues. Or if it's a simple tool, in the unix tradition, loudly fails with a proper error code.
            The rest is an issue of the sysadmin, who either sets up the program to restart or catches the exception, with runit or equivalent or shell script, or prefers the error to propagate or to trigger error handling elsewhere (a network health monitor, for example). In any simple scenario the DSL is overly complex, in any complex scenario a turing complete script with all the arsenal of userland is more suited for the task.

            --
            Account abandoned.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2020, @05:23PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2020, @05:23PM (#989054)

          [...] You would definitely have a more powerful dog-catcher. But what good would that be?

          The dog catcher also moonlights as a pimp for the local LEA decoys. The more weaponry, the better.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by RS3 on Friday May 01 2020, @05:10PM (10 children)

        by RS3 (6367) on Friday May 01 2020, @05:10PM (#989047)

        This is an amazing discussion and I'm learning and greatly respect everyone's input.

        No interest in quarreling, just want to point out: I wish to move away from RedHat / CentOS / systemd, but the few distros that are NOT systemd-based have weak package management systems (imho). (I'm a SlackWare guy from the start, so I might finally go SlackWare on production systems...)

        I wish systemd was more of an option.

        And I think that might be the core of most people's unhappiness- lack of option, which is kind of what the whole Linux / open source world was about... to me anyway...

        That and systemd brings some pretty big changes, again, crammed down our throats. I might be very okay with it if I install it on a non-production box- sysadmin's dev box, and "play" with it, learn it, etc., for whatever time it takes. But I don't want to be forced into using something so pervasive. Make any sense?

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Friday May 01 2020, @06:06PM (3 children)

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 01 2020, @06:06PM (#989084) Journal

          The thing that people are forgetting is that whether you use systemd.homed is OPTIONAL. It is not, and should not be, enforced because it does break SSH and many users might prefer that over a homed directory. Unfortunately it currently defaults to 'homed' being selected and not the preferred alternative of being unselected but there is already a bug report [github.com] in to change this behaviour.

          Systemd.homed is not yet ready for release and it is not surprising that there are bug reports extant.

          Now it is also true that Lennart has a habit of not listening to people - but the distros have insisted on the ability to disable homed being included.

          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2020, @07:11PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2020, @07:11PM (#989118)

            It may be currently optional, but systemd was optional at first, too. We know it won't remain that way.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2020, @09:56PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2020, @09:56PM (#989227)

            Optional...

            Until it's required to log into your system.

            Optional...

            Until every Linux tool that has anything to do with /home or passwords, or logins needs to be systemd aware and won't operate without systemd.homed running.

            This will be no more optional than the dozens of applications that all ready require systemd prerequisites, for no real reason.

          • (Score: 2) by Bot on Friday May 01 2020, @10:04PM

            by Bot (3902) on Friday May 01 2020, @10:04PM (#989232) Journal

            Everything is optional under linux, what you want to know is: is it DEFAULT?
            Because once the luser has installed his flashy distro, he is stuck with his default LUKS image, and you sysadmin/helpful hacker are going to deal with it.

            --
            Account abandoned.
        • (Score: 1) by DECbot on Friday May 01 2020, @07:47PM (2 children)

          by DECbot (832) on Friday May 01 2020, @07:47PM (#989147) Journal

          If you want package management, for now Debian is still kinda supporting systemd-shim, which lets you choose your own init adventure. If you want more commitment on systemd alternatives, but like Debian's package management, then give Devuan a go. Jesse and Ascii are both SysV and I believe they are looking at OpenRC for Beowulf or whatever comes after Beowulf.
           
          I agree with you. If systemd was just an init change, I probably wouldn't have had second thoughts about it. However it is not just an init change, it is also a networking change, a DNS change, a logging change, a login change, and more. Granted, some distros have opt-ed out of these changes and a few of these changes you can revert--but they are mostly opt-out on default. I prefer an opt-in by default manner where I can evaluate the changes one by one and adopt them when I am ready to try something new on a system I know is stable or designed for testing. Between the NIH-forceful changes to the OS, the arrogant support of the developers (not-a-bug bug), and the political nature of how it ended up as a default on other distros, I'm not inclined to view it positively.

          --
          cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
          • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Friday May 01 2020, @08:09PM (1 child)

            by RS3 (6367) on Friday May 01 2020, @08:09PM (#989165)

            Yes, and thank you so much for the suggestions! I will try Devuan. I like the large selection of Debian packages available, and that most 3rd party software is available in .rpm or .deb.

            I really want to use Alpine Linux- it's awesome, but I have very little confidence in the package manager. There's barely any interaction. You can add or del packages, but you barely know what's going on under the hood.

            My fear of systemd is: 1) it's been growing, spreading tentacles further and further, and as I keep commenting: 2) it's not an option with RedHat, and that's a big disappointment for me because RedHat is so strong in the market.

            And it may be Devuan, but there are some distros that want to install systemd by default, but you can choose to not install it, and choose sysvinit, openrc, whatever else.

            Again, I've been a SlackWare guy from, well, very long ago. Problem is- I have a rock-solid 14.1 system. Tried to install, from scratch, 14.2, and many things don't work correctly, or at all. Spent too many hours trying to fix stupid things and gave up. Too many hours spent, too many other more productive things to do right now. Keeping 14.1 system for now. :)

            Thanks again!

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 02 2020, @03:13AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 02 2020, @03:13AM (#989319)

              Guess why RedHat (now IBM division) is so happy to push systemd, gnome and all other "new & shiny, we have to do it because the others are old" things. To reinforce their position. More vendor lock-in, more strength, more market share, wihtout pause.

              They are not interested in playing nice and being compatible. The only compatibility they understand is the one they "set". That they go with GPL is just a left over, and as long as they control the organizations, it will mater zilch if GPL style licenses, MIT style or closed source. But in spirit they are very far from GPL.

              Or as repeated many other times in this and other stories: Linux is not done until everyone is in RH support contracts.

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday May 02 2020, @12:16AM (2 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday May 02 2020, @12:16AM (#989270) Journal

          In my experience, Void and Arch do *not* have "weak packaging systems." Pacman is the best package manager I've ever used, ever, and Void's xbps suite is a close second only because it's a tad more verbose and clunky. Feels oddly like a *BSD package manager, actually, since it has xbps-src tools too.

          Slackware doesn't (by default) have a package manager, so things like slapt-get are naturally going to be a little wonky.

          And Gentoo, well, we know Gentoo. I have a 32GiB kit of DDR4-2400 coming this week because apparently 8 is *not* enough for modern Gentoo @_@

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Saturday May 02 2020, @01:17AM (1 child)

            by RS3 (6367) on Saturday May 02 2020, @01:17AM (#989280)

            Thanks for the tips!

            It's been quite a few years since I've tried Void or Arch. Arch of course uses systemd, and I'm not ready to switch production servers to systemd. Never know what the future holds of course.

            IIRC there's an Arch-based distro with systemd removed, but some reports of problems with packages that depend on systemd.(?)

            I'm well anchored in Slackware and have no problem running it live, but if something happens to me, or I bail, I'd hate to leave a system that many admins would struggle with, and curse me for. And it kind of has package management, "pkgtool", "upgradepkg", and a few others, but not dependency management if that's what you mean. IIRC it did way way back.

            While I'm on it, I used to add "&" to the end of many of the startup script command lines and kind of got my own parallel startups happening. Had to be aware of dependencies, but that wasn't too difficult for many things.

            I'm slightly embarrassed to admit I've never done Gentoo. Need a distcc farm?

            • (Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday May 02 2020, @03:06PM

              by Arik (4543) on Saturday May 02 2020, @03:06PM (#989497) Journal
              If they struggle with Slackware then anything else would be far beyond their control.
              --
              If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
      • (Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Friday May 01 2020, @07:38PM

        by Dr Spin (5239) on Friday May 01 2020, @07:38PM (#989140)

        I should have thought it was perfectly obvious from my post that where I have the choice, I would not use the bloody shit-heap in the first place.
        Not everyone gets a choice of what OS is on computers they have to use (I might go as far as threats of physical violence for anyone who tries
        to get me to use Windows).

        However good OpenBSD is for me, not least because I have been a Unix user since 1978, it is not ideal for everybody. Indeed, it is my contention is that
        some like Gnome, some like KDE, and some don't. As someone else has already said "there is nothing inherently wrong with systemd existing*. There is
        a lot wrong with anyone who thinks that kind of stuff should be rammed down anyone's unwilling throat (except perhaps on Pronhub)". It is choice that is
        good, and not ramming things down people's throats.

        (I have several other perfectly good rants in the waiting, but I shall wait til the brandy wears off).

        * Although it would obviously be better it it existed in an alternate universe, and not the one I am in.

        --
        Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by janrinok on Saturday May 02 2020, @07:02AM

        by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 02 2020, @07:02AM (#989364) Journal

        You can disagree all you like - but this is not SPAM.

      • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Saturday May 02 2020, @01:54PM

        by Thexalon (636) on Saturday May 02 2020, @01:54PM (#989456)

        What do you mean by "powerful"?

        If you mean "does more things", then that's only a good thing if the things it does are the things I want it to do.

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2020, @02:32PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2020, @02:32PM (#988972)

      You forgot the "Vision Statement" and the "Mission Statement".

      • (Score: 4, Funny) by DannyB on Friday May 01 2020, @02:51PM (1 child)

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 01 2020, @02:51PM (#988989) Journal

        First thing is first: design the icons and t-shirt.

        --
        The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 02 2020, @06:01AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 02 2020, @06:01AM (#989349)

          Boss: Is the minimum viable product ready yet?

          Programmer: Not even close.

          Sales: But we have one million stickers ordered.

          Boss: Ship it now! We can't let the stickers go to waste!

  • (Score: 2) by Arik on Friday May 01 2020, @12:22PM

    by Arik (4543) on Friday May 01 2020, @12:22PM (#988893) Journal
    What I don't understand is why you would continue using ubuntu after they do this to you?

    At most it should take one such incident to convince you to move to a distro that doesn't suck.
    --
    If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2020, @07:02PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2020, @07:02PM (#989110)

    even if something was being broken (i doubt it) you don't have to use systemd-resolvd to use systemd-networkd. you don't have to use systemd-networkd either...

  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2020, @08:47PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01 2020, @08:47PM (#989185)

    Every time I get an update to my Ubuntu system, resolv.conf gets totally fucked. No matter how I remove symlinks, make it immutable, write protected, etc.

    systemctl disable NetworkManager
    systemctl mask NetworkManager
    systemctl enable network

    Will stop that shit from happening.