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from the having-your-cake-and-eating-it-too-OR-let-them-eat-cake? dept.
Zuckerberg Accused of Setting Dangerous Precedent
Zuckerberg accused of setting dangerous precedent:
Mark Zuckerberg is setting a "dangerous precedent" by allowing a post by Donald Trump to remain on Facebook, a group of civil rights leaders has warned.
[...] In the post, the president wrote he would "send in the National Guard", and warned that "when the looting starts, the shooting starts".
Mr Trump shared the same message on Twitter, where it was hidden behind a warning label, prompting an escalating row between Twitter and the White House.
Mr Zuckerberg had previously defended his decision to leave the same post up on Facebook, saying he disagreed with Mr Trump's words but that people "should be able to see this for themselves".
After meeting Mr Zuckerberg, three civil rights leaders responded that he was wrong.
[...] The joint statement, released on Monday night, was signed by Vanita Gupta, president of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights; Sherrilyn Ifill, director-counsel of the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund; and Rashad Robinson, president of Color of Change. It has been published online by Axios.
A Facebook spokesman said: "We're grateful that leaders in the civil rights community took the time to share candid, honest feedback with Mark and Sheryl [Sandberg, Facebook's COO].
Mark Zuckerberg on Leaked Audio: Trump's Looting and Shooting Reference "Has no History of Dogwhistling
In an internal video call with Facebook employees on Tuesday obtained by Recode, CEO Mark Zuckerberg doubled down on his controversial decision to take no action on a post last week from President Donald Trump. In the post, Trump referred to the ongoing protests in the US against racism and police brutality and said, "when the looting starts, the shooting starts."
Facebook's handling of Trump's post — which included language similar to what segregationists used when referring to black protesters in the civil rights era — has divided employees at Facebook and prompted them to openly criticize Zuckerberg in a way they never have before. Around 400 employees staged a virtual walkout of work on Monday, at least two employees have resigned in protest, others have threatened to resign, and several senior-level managers have publicly disagreed with Zuckerberg's stance — calling for him to take down or otherwise moderate Trump's post, as Facebook's competitor Twitter already has.
[...] "I knew that the stakes were very high on this, and knew a lot of people would be upset if we made the decision to leave it up," Zuckerberg said on the call. He went on to say that after reviewing the implications of Trump's statement, he decided that "the right action for where we are right now is to leave this up."
[...] "We basically concluded after the research and after everything I've read and all the different folks that I've talked to that the reference is clearly to aggressive policing — maybe excessive policing — but it has no history of being read as a dog whistle for vigilante supporters to take justice into their own hands," Zuckerberg said on the call. He also said that, overall, Facebook still reserves the right to moderate Trump.
Civil Rights Leaders Slam Zuckerberg Over Response to Trump Posts, Says Report
Civil rights leaders slam Zuckerberg over response to Trump posts, says report:
A group of civil rights leaders issued a scathing statement on Monday about Facebook in the wake of a meeting with the social networking company's CEO, Mark Zuckerberg and other top executives, according to a report by Axios. The meeting was set-up to discuss Facebook's decision to leave up a post by US President Donald Trump that the civil rights leaders say incites violence.
"He [Zuckerberg] did not demonstrate understanding of historic or modern-day voter suppression and he refuses to acknowledge how Facebook is facilitating Trump's call for violence against protesters," the heads of the The Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund and Color of Change said in a joint statement. "Mark is setting a very dangerous precedent for other voices who would say similar harmful things on Facebook."
The meeting, which was held on Monday night over video call, came after Facebook employees staged a rare protest in the form of a virtual walkout to express their anger against Zuckerberg's response to Trump. It also followed Twitter's move to hide the same post by Trump behind a warning that says the tweet violated the site's rules against "glorifying violence."
"We're grateful that leaders in the civil rights community took the time to share candid, honest feedback with Mark and Sheryl [Sandberg]," a Facebook company spokesperson said in an emailed statement on Tuesday. "It is an important moment to listen, and we look forward to continuing these conversations."
[...] "We believe that if a post incites violence, it should be removed regardless of whether it is newsworthy, even if it comes from a politician."
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(Score: 5, Insightful) by Mykl on Thursday June 04 2020, @06:10AM (18 children)
No.
Normally I would say yes, but in his case almost everything he says is a lie. There's just no point in letting him speak if he is fundamentally incapable of conveying truthful information.
This would be bad enough under any circumstances, but the weird relationship that several media outlets have with him (almost acting like authoritarian-state-owned media) vastly amplifies the damage of these lies.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by qzm on Thursday June 04 2020, @06:43AM (16 children)
So, you would rather he took the established political approach of lying quietly behind closed doors, rather than out in the open where we can judge him? Interesting.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @03:22PM (8 children)
Still with the useless binary mindset.
It's been long understood that fascist leaders aren't much interested in factual discussion. What they want is the normalization of atrocities. When Trump was blathering demonstrably false bullshit about millions of illegal voters, it was a prelude to purging the voter rolls of (primarily D-) voters. When he says he's gonna make antifa (an adjective, by the way, not a name) a terrorist organization, it is a prelude to making any organization opposed to his goals outlawable. It doesn't actually matter that there's no organization now to be outlawed.
But words do matter. Trump uses bullshit to further an agenda, making the distinction between truth and falsity is so nineteenth century. And the primary purpose of the past three years has been the normalization of bullshit, and i'll tell you why.
A totalitarian state loves it when its
victicitizens can't tell or don't care about the difference between truth and lie. And a totalitarian state is what Trump intends.(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @03:32PM
Oh, and the less obvious (but timely) relation: POTUS has spent years ferociously demonizing legitimate news agencies. So, it's hardly surprising that police are now literally targeting reporters. His words made that possible, direct one-to-one connection. Words of fascists matter, not simply for the lies they contain, but for the evil intent they reveal.
(Score: 2, Redundant) by Phoenix666 on Thursday June 04 2020, @03:51PM (6 children)
You described every politician, ever, and a great many corporate leaders too. When I think about when a new movie comes out, critics and advertisements invariably proclaim it's the best thing EVAR. That is, they use bullshit to further an agenda.
As for the "normalization of bullshit," well, let's suppose we brand everything you say that we don't like as "normalization of bullshit." Does that make us right, just because we said it and because you're one of the "baddies?"
No, a totalitarian state loves it when its citizens stop asking questions. Can you still ask questions? If you can, then you do not live in a totalitarian state.
What leads you to say that Trump wants a totalitarian state? I haven't seen him order any mass arrests of his political opponents. He hasn't censored speech. He hasn't suspended the Constitution or voided elections he doesn't like. You don't have any evidence, you have feelz.
What he is, is an asshole. So far, he's been an asshole to people who have been shitting on regular Americans for decades and snickering about it. That works for me; the louder they scream and gnash their teeth, the more it makes me think that for once they're feeling an ounce of the suffering they have poured on everyone else without interruption.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @05:22PM (5 children)
The illegal assault on protesters on the private property of the DC church would like a word.
Not to mention inhumane kids in cages concentration camps, calling the national guard over the immigrant caravan as a pure pblicity stunt, multiple threats and calls for violence against his political opponents which is speech specifically not protected by the 1st Amendment, his EO in violation of the 1st Amendment in retaliation against Twitter.
Honestly I have no idea how you can ask "What leads you to say that Trump wants a totalitarian state?" with a straight face. Umm, his own words and actions? Or do you not remember his comments about running for a 3rd term or more? His attacks on the electoral system recently trying to set up mail voting as invalid?
Truly this is embarassing for you here, but lucky for you the circle-jerk is alive and well so I'll be modded down and you'll be modded higher specifically because you prioritize feels over reals. https://www.britannica.com/topic/First-Amendment/Permissible-restrictions-on-expression [britannica.com] Or are we just ignoring the law these days in favor of convenient talking points?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday June 04 2020, @10:07PM (1 child)
Interesting how meager the efforts have to be in order to "want" a totalitarian state. Trump shoots his mouth off a few times and we're literally Hitlering.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 05 2020, @12:08AM
You've reached the end of the line. Welcome to Stupid Town, where I'm rubber and you're glue.
"Shooting his mouth off" lol, how about "assaulting US citizens for a photo op"? Does that line up in that soft goop you call a brain?
I sure wish we could see an alternate reality where Obama said the same things about conservatives, I can already see the quantum foam forming around your lips as you develop an aneurysm.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday June 05 2020, @02:06PM (2 children)
Gosh, you sure had no problem with that policy when Obama did it. Then the explanation was to cut down on sex trafficking. Trump continued that policy through bureaucratic inertia, and suddenly it's all his fault and evil. OK, dude.
When great numbers of people from other countries want to storm your border at once, they are not "immigrants," they are invaders. Calling out the National Guard in that case is a mild response.
Um, yeah. Guess you had no problem with this [tmz.com], then? How about this [realclearpolitics.com]? Oh, but those don't matter because of your feelz.
Meanwhile, Trump has been warning of crackdowns on rioting, violence, that is actually happening. Seems fair to me.
Honestly, I have no idea how you can claim "Trump wants a totalitarian state" when he has done nothing of the kind. It's intellectually dishonest. You're mad that he has wanted to defend the integrity of the US border, but somehow are willfully ignorant that every other prior President, even the holy Obama, did, too. You are willfully ignorant of the fact that protecting the country's borders is literally part of the President's job.
Voting by mail is a controversial subject. So is electronic voting. Coming down on one side or the other of those questions does not make you a totalitarian, except in the minds of fevered nitwits.
Truly this is embarassing for you here, but lucky for you the circle-jerk is alive and well so I'll be modded down and you'll be modded higher specifically because you prioritize feels over reals.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 05 2020, @04:15PM (1 child)
Ok boomer
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 05 2020, @08:55PM
I am modding down Phoenix666, since after all he is The Number of the Beast, and the hometown of the Old Boomer Republican Beasts. Must hurt to be so old, and afraid, and vulnerable! It's like a cable news show could tell you what to think, and Buffalo Emerceny Response Team police could, like, just push you over. Scary times. Be Safe. #BunkerBoy #BabyGate
(Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Thursday June 04 2020, @03:38PM (6 children)
everything he says is lies.
there is no public good from that.
deplatform him.
he's not helping. in fact, he's stirring the pot and he's the cancer this country needs to eliminate.
deplatform him.
we'll start the healing process as soon as that happens.
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday June 04 2020, @04:40PM (2 children)
Sorry, censorship is fascism, always. We can't go around telling people what they can hear and see. Direct your energy to the people who listen and believe and follow
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @08:25PM (1 child)
That is what Twitter did.
Seems the liar-in-chief didn't much like it.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday June 04 2020, @09:34PM
Twitter doesn't own the wire. They can't block your internet access. Whatever they do is their business and not even newsworthy.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @06:57PM (2 children)
Or instead the news could simply stop worshiping every word he says. No need to de-platform and open that can of worms when you can simply ignore the message. Yet somehow all the people who hate Trump can't stop talking about him. They follow Trump with more passion than his supporters. If you're tired of Trump than stop hanging onto every tiny little thing he does.
Instead you guys are screaming everyone needs to censor the things I don't like because I don't have any self-control and can't stop looking at things I don't like. GROW THE FUCK UP. If you don't like something, avoid it yourself.
What you said about him also applies to most salesmen, many CEOs, and a ton of other organizations. Go move to China were are all unconfirmed truths are illegal. That's your ideal country.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 05 2020, @03:12AM (1 child)
All they're talking about is forcing Trump over to Voat. Maybe they should do it. You folks might grow up and realize there are other communications platforms, even ones that let you operate your own server. If you want to listen to Trump without any pesky facts, go ahead. Live the dream.
But the MSM remains total fail. They want us to think this is a Big Deal. It's not. A big deal is when POTUS storms a place of worship for a photo op.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 05 2020, @09:02PM
C'mon! Even Texas is repudiating the cray-cray!
Five Texas GOP county leaders share racist Facebook posts, including one juxtaposing an MLK quote with a banana [texastribune.org]
Gov. Greg Abbott calls for resignation of Bexar County GOP chair after she floats racist George Floyd conspiracy theory [texastribune.org]
Harrison Co. GOP chairman posts conspiracy theory asking if George Floyd's death was staged [cbs19.tv]
Got my Soros Check right 'chere!
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday June 04 2020, @11:09AM
Ok, what is the "no point"? "Fundamentally incapable of conveying truthful information" sounds like something worth knowing.