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posted by Fnord666 on Wednesday June 10 2020, @08:12PM   Printer-friendly
from the let-me-count-the-ways dept.

Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:

The arrival of the novel coronavirus and subsequent shutdowns of economies across the globe have caused hardships not seen in generations. But for business professors, it's also a once-in-a-generation research opportunity.

USC Marshall Assistant Professor of Marketing and Kenneth King Stonier Assistant Professor of Business Administration Davide Proserpio was one of the first academics to study the sharing economy as he completed his Ph.D. Today he is considered a leading expert in the so-called "gig" economy. We asked him five questions about how the COVID-19 pandemic and resultant shutdown are affecting the sector.


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  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 10 2020, @08:46PM (39 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 10 2020, @08:46PM (#1005985)

    All it's demonstrated is that the chasm between the haves and the have-nots is ever widening. Those who can afford to have others put their lives at risk doing menial, low-paid, exploitative jobs, can pay for the privilege of having other humans do their dirty work while they stay in their satin-laced castles complaining about how bad this pandemic is because their nails are getting too long.
    While things like drivers will no doubt have felt a severe pinch, others working for doordash and likewise (grocery) delivery services will have found that their workload will have increased significantly; only for them to be punished (by the Algorithm) for not doing enough work for the pittance they are paid. It's like working in an amazon warehouse, except its your own property where you're abused.

    I didn't used to have anyone in my circle of acquaintances that did gig-work, now I know ~10 people. They're not doing it because it makes a lot of money, nor because 'they want to be their own boss', both arguments sounding so similar to MLM scams; they do it out of necessity, because their regular job pays fuck-all and it's the only way to scrape together enough money to keep the family fed. Unfortunately, it suffers severely from the law of diminishing returns: the more time you dedicate to it, the deeper you go into the hole... even though you're constantly encouraged to dedicate more and more time to your 'gig'.

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  • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 10 2020, @09:08PM (23 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 10 2020, @09:08PM (#1005993)

    This was just announced...
    County health officials are recommending that everyone who participates in a protest should consider getting tested for COVID-19 as they are at higher risk.
    Looks like the idiots demonstrating just fucked up the curve. Expecting a shitstorm...

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 10 2020, @09:18PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 10 2020, @09:18PM (#1005995)

      Weren't you assholes bleating about yuhr freedums just a few weeks ago? Saying grandma and grandpa have to die for the economy?

      Either you magorons are stupider than ae thought or we seriously underestimated the infestation of shills

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday June 10 2020, @10:20PM (2 children)

        by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday June 10 2020, @10:20PM (#1006026) Journal

        The rate at which they need to directly reverse their position from the previously held one seems to be increasing in frequency.

        • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 10 2020, @10:24PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 10 2020, @10:24PM (#1006028)

          It is your position you need be concerned about. The deeper you push your head in the sand, the more vulnerable the other end.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:18PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:18PM (#1006371)

            So you admit you're running around trying to fuck people in the ass? Oooo kaaaay

      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:47AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:47AM (#1006175)

        The people protesting the lockdown just wanted to work, so they're nazis, while the people wanting to loot and burn neighborhoods to the ground are in it for critical social change that affects us all. Anyone who can't see that is definitely a moron.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 10 2020, @09:22PM (11 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 10 2020, @09:22PM (#1005996)

      Looks like the idiots demonstrating just fucked up the curve. Expecting a shitstorm...

      I expect nothing much to happen. One thing I'm glad for the rioters to have done was interrupting the Covid-19 scaremongering on MSM.

      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 10 2020, @10:30PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 10 2020, @10:30PM (#1006032)

        The talking head will invent some "explanation" for nothing happening, never fear. Something about "righteous anger having anti-virus properties" or somesuch. Doublethink is the road to success.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 10 2020, @10:57PM (9 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 10 2020, @10:57PM (#1006049)

        I expect nothing much to happen. One thing I'm glad for the rioters to have done was interrupting the Covid-19 scaremongering on MSM.

        Where, exactly, has there been rioting (police attacking peaceful protestors doesn't count) in the last ten days or so?

        The people in the streets are peaceful protestors, not rioters.

        Whether or not it's a good idea to gather in large groups during a pandemic is a reasonable question to ask.

        But painting the hundreds of thousands (every) of peaceful protestors as "rioters" is just dishonest. For shame!

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @01:26AM (4 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @01:26AM (#1006105)

          The people in the streets are peaceful protestors, not rioters.

          A CNN employee on SN? Could you give Brian Stelter a wedgie live on air?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @01:41AM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @01:41AM (#1006113)

            That's all you've got? Really?

            Please try to do better. You're giving partisan hacks a bad name.

            The funniest part is that I *never* watch CNN. Or Fox. Or MSNBC.

            Once in a while I'll watch DW News [dw.com] or BBC News [bbc.co.uk].

            Or are they on the Communist/ANTIFA/fake news bandwagon too?

            Should I now be beaten until I just pay attention to jackass' twitter feed, Alex Jones, OANN and other absolute arbiters of truth?

            This has been nice. But be a good boy and run along. The adults want to have a conversation.

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:50AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:50AM (#1006176)

          There are people with guns guarding checkpoints into the Capital Hill Autonomous Zone in Seattle right now.
          https://mynorthwest.com/1935411/seattle-demontrators-checkpoint-chaz/ [mynorthwest.com]

          Yes, all the weirdest out-there shit happens between here and Portland first, but rest assured, you'll be getting it in the next 5-10 years.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @12:12PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @12:12PM (#1006245)

          Portsmouth, Virginia. Virginia Beach, Virginia. Hampton, Virginia.

          Look harder.

    • (Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Wednesday June 10 2020, @10:54PM (4 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 10 2020, @10:54PM (#1006048) Journal
      I just looked at Hennepin County [hennepin.us] in Minnesota which contains Minneapolis. Despite all that protesting and rioting, there isn't any increase in cases relative to the rest of Minnesota (most which didn't see such crowding). (7540 out of 22464 in roughly May 23 to 9674 out of 28869 on June 10).
      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 10 2020, @11:13PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 10 2020, @11:13PM (#1006056)

        Yet.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday June 11 2020, @12:38PM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 11 2020, @12:38PM (#1006251) Journal
          And that's significant since the protests started on May 26, two weeks ago.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:54AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:54AM (#1006178)

        The protests are a boon for Trump if he plays it right (questionable):

        1) No spike -- he tells everyone he was right all along and this was just a Democrat plot to torpedo the economy, a plot so egregious they didn't care if they put millions out of work.

        2) Spike -- he points out how cut off air travel from China and how it was all the most blue of the blue who decided to go out and protest and endanger the health of the citizens and the economy by extension. That they put their ideology before science, almost as if by design to create a hellscape in the hopes of winning an election.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @06:21PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @06:21PM (#1006476)

          Trump did not cut off people coming in from China. He only cut off Chinese nationals.

          Around 45,000 people came in during his *supposed* ban. He then did the same with Europe and mostly recently with Brazil.

          His travels bans for Corona virus are not effective. They are just for show.

    • (Score: 2) by stretch611 on Thursday June 11 2020, @12:11PM

      by stretch611 (6199) on Thursday June 11 2020, @12:11PM (#1006244)

      Looks like the idiots demonstrating just fucked up the curve. Expecting a shitstorm...

      Actually, they need this narrative to make it look like demonstrators are causing a second wave of coronavirus... not the poor planning of opening up states too soon.

      admittedly, it is some of both... but they will never accept the least amount of blame on themselves.

      --
      Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
  • (Score: 2) by darkfeline on Wednesday June 10 2020, @09:56PM (7 children)

    by darkfeline (1030) on Wednesday June 10 2020, @09:56PM (#1006016) Homepage

    It's just supply and demand. So long as there's someone willing to do the job at a low pay (and for menial jobs, there's always someone), then the pay for that job is not going to be higher. If you want higher pay, you need to put yourself into a group with lower supply than demand. Nature is far more cruel than human society, and human society in the past was far more cruel than human society now. People actually starving to death is somewhat uncommon nowadays in first world (or "first world") countries, which was decidedly not true for most of human history.

    --
    Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 10 2020, @11:03PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 10 2020, @11:03PM (#1006052)

      While I agree with your statements, that doesn't make it ok. Forever striving to a more perfect union/society and all that.
      On top of that, companies such as grubhub/lyft/uber and what have you, are then essentially vultures: aiding and abetting a more cruel society.

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday June 11 2020, @01:21PM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 11 2020, @01:21PM (#1006272) Journal

        On top of that, companies such as grubhub/lyft/uber and what have you, are then essentially vultures: aiding and abetting a more cruel society.

        What's more cruel about the gig economy?

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday June 10 2020, @11:19PM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 10 2020, @11:19PM (#1006058) Journal
      Another way is to increase demand for labor. Even high supply menial labor does better when there's more employers. Gig economy does that. So do policies that are friendly to creating and growing businesses.
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @07:07AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @07:07AM (#1006200)

      Those in more expensive "first world" countries should beware though. With more bosses and companies confirming that employees working from home isn't that bad for productivity, many of them may decide to have significantly cheaper employees working from other countries instead.

      Minimum annual wage in USA: $15,080

      Compare with:
      https://www.averagesalarysurvey.com/vietnam [averagesalarysurvey.com]
      https://www.averagesalarysurvey.com/philippines [averagesalarysurvey.com]
      https://www.averagesalarysurvey.com/india [averagesalarysurvey.com]
      https://www.averagesalarysurvey.com/malaysia [averagesalarysurvey.com]

      They won't be the best. But plenty will be better than what you can get in the USA for $15,080.

      US cops aren't significantly better than cops in much cheaper countries (might even be worse) and cost more. Wouldn't be a stretch to say that many mid or lower end US employees would similarly not be significantly better than cheaper workers in other countries.

      See also:
      https://www.averagesalarysurvey.com/united-states [averagesalarysurvey.com]
      https://www.averagesalarysurvey.com/australia [averagesalarysurvey.com]

      https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/01/16/169528579/outsourced-employee-sends-own-job-to-china-surfs-web [npr.org]

      And it turns out that the job done in China was above par — the employee's "code was clean, well written, and submitted in a timely fashion. Quarter after quarter, his performance review noted him as the best developer in the building,"

      it looked like he earned several hundred thousand dollars a year, and only had to pay the Chinese consulting firm about fifty grand annually

      And that consulting firm might have paid less to the developer(s) doing the actual work.
      https://www.averagesalarysurvey.com/china [averagesalarysurvey.com]

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday June 11 2020, @01:19PM (2 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 11 2020, @01:19PM (#1006271) Journal

        Those in more expensive "first world" countries should beware though. With more bosses and companies confirming that employees working from home isn't that bad for productivity, many of them may decide to have significantly cheaper employees working from other countries instead.

        That ship started sailing half a century ago. If they haven't done so by now, indicates that there was some advantage to employing people in the developed world. That advantage isn't going away just because of coronavirus. Further, that pay differential is much lower now than it was way back when. Having a mean salary higher than the US's minimum wage (which all four of your linked countries do) is a very new thing. The world is running out of cheap labor.

        US cops aren't significantly better than cops in much cheaper countries (might even be worse) and cost more. Wouldn't be a stretch to say that many mid or lower end US employees would similarly not be significantly better than cheaper workers in other countries.

        Great non sequitur. Those other mid or lower end US employees whose jobs could actually be moved somewhere aren't a lot of things when they aren't cops. They aren't government jobs. They aren't heavily unionized jobs. And they usually aren't jobs where performance and task outcome are routinely ignored. For example of the last part, consider the usual outcome of a cop killing someone unlawfully: put on leave, sometimes disciplined, and rarely tried for a crime - it's more important to protect the cop than to correct bad performance. Or how weakly the police will try to recovery your stuff when someone steals it - it isn't important to them whether you recover from the crime or not.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @02:58AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @02:58AM (#1006744)

          That ship started sailing half a century ago. If they haven't done so by now, indicates that there was some advantage to employing people in the developed world.

          Guess you're one of those developed world workers who aren't smart enough to realize that's a different ship.

          For years many people who could work from home weren't allowed to by their employers/bosses. If that ship really did sail, they would have been working from home already!

          Now that has changed. Significantly more employers are saying many/all of their employees can continue to work from home indefinitely.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday June 12 2020, @01:44PM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday June 12 2020, @01:44PM (#1006855) Journal

            Now that has changed.

            For a few months. There's no reason to expect it to stick around after the emergency is over.

  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday June 10 2020, @11:22PM (6 children)

    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 10 2020, @11:22PM (#1006060) Journal

    I didn't used to have anyone in my circle of acquaintances that did gig-work, now I know ~10 people. They're not doing it because it makes a lot of money, nor because 'they want to be their own boss', both arguments sounding so similar to MLM scams; they do it out of necessity, because their regular job pays fuck-all and it's the only way to scrape together enough money to keep the family fed. Unfortunately, it suffers severely from the law of diminishing returns: the more time you dedicate to it, the deeper you go into the hole... even though you're constantly encouraged to dedicate more and more time to your 'gig'.

    So they would be better off with just the "fuck-all" job and not being able to scrape enough together? I bet you that the policies and regulations intended to make their lives easier, such as public pensions, regs to curb "exploitive jobs", minimum wage laws, and the byzantine maze of rules on all aspects of employment, have done more to make their lives hard than employers being employers.

    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday June 11 2020, @09:16AM (5 children)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 11 2020, @09:16AM (#1006217) Journal

      So they would be better off with just the "fuck-all" job and not being able to scrape enough together?

      Because there always has to be a false dilemma around, one only needs to look a bit for it (grin)

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday June 11 2020, @12:41PM (4 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 11 2020, @12:41PM (#1006252) Journal
        We could always get rid of the "fuck all" job too, leaving them virtuously unemployed.

        When someone talks about how terrible something is, the obvious "dilemma" to consider the absence of the terrible thing.
        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday June 11 2020, @12:49PM (3 children)

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 11 2020, @12:49PM (#1006258) Journal

          When someone talks about how terrible something is, the obvious "dilemma" to consider the absence of the terrible thing.

          Maybe the presence of other things would be more helpful?
          Or the absence of some other things that drove to a fuck all job?
          Because the possibilities as so many more than just two.

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday June 11 2020, @01:31PM (2 children)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 11 2020, @01:31PM (#1006276) Journal

            Maybe the presence of other things would be more helpful?

            Like what? Policies that make the problem worse?

            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday June 11 2020, @01:52PM (1 child)

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 11 2020, @01:52PM (#1006281) Journal

              That too.
              Or fucking tuition fees going through the roof (while most of the damn'd Europeans have even tertiary education socialized).
              Or being held hostage by John Deere with the crop you can't harvest because you can't repair your tractor.
              Or those HB whatever visas.

              Things like that, yes.

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday June 12 2020, @01:43PM

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday June 12 2020, @01:43PM (#1006854) Journal

                Or fucking tuition fees going through the roof (while most of the damn'd Europeans have even tertiary education socialized).

                Seems irrelevant to me. Most people don't actually pay those fees (because they don't go to those schools) and they still have the same problems.

                Or being held hostage by John Deere with the crop you can't harvest because you can't repair your tractor.

                I sense we're reaching.

                Or those HB whatever visas.

                Ditto.