Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

SoylentNews is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop. Only 19 submissions in the queue.
posted by martyb on Thursday June 11 2020, @01:27PM   Printer-friendly
from the A-See-Change dept.

Many sources are reporting what we can read at ABC News,

NASCAR banned the Confederate flag from its races and properties on Wednesday, formally distancing itself from what for many is a symbol of slavery and racism that had been a familiar sight at stock car events for more than 70 years.

The move comes amid social unrest around the globe following the death in police custody of George Floyd, an unarmed black man in Minneapolis. Protests have roiled the nation for days and Confederate monuments are being taken down across the South — the tradtiional fan base for NASCAR.

[...] The issue was pushed to the fore this week as Bubba Wallace, NASCAR's lone black driver, called for the banishment of the Confederate flag and said there was "no place" for them in the sport. At long last, NASCAR obliged.

"The presence of the confederate flag at NASCAR events runs contrary to our commitment to providing a welcoming and inclusive environment for all fans, our competitors and our industry," NASCAR said. "Bringing people together around a love for racing and the community that it creates is what makes our fans and sport special. The display of the confederate flag will be prohibited from all NASCAR events and properties."

[...] The move was announced before Wednesday night's race at Martinsville Speedway where Wallace, an Alabama native, was driving a Chevrolet with a #BlackLivesMatter paint scheme. Wallace got a shoutout on Twitter from several athletes, including NBA star LeBron James, for using the paint scheme in the race.


Original Submission

 
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by looorg on Thursday June 11 2020, @02:31PM (15 children)

    by looorg (578) on Thursday June 11 2020, @02:31PM (#1006299)

    ... who can't let go of a past so many generations back that they never met anybody who lived in it.

    Can't the same be said about the people that are upset? They didn't live in the south at the time, they didn't pick any cotton or whatnot. So they are upset about something that happened to someone else. Perhaps they should just drop this whole proxy-outrage they fell about things that didn't happen to them.

    As I said who cares if some people like NASCAR also wave confederate flags if you don't even watch NASCAR or care about it. You just care about the "hateflag" they might wave (or have on clothing, or stickers on their car or whatever) but then care nothing for the sport or the event. Seems like they are just hunting for things to be upset about on behalf of other people so they can feel good about themselves.

    Starting Score:    1  point
    Moderation   +3  
       Troll=2, Insightful=5, Total=7
    Extra 'Insightful' Modifier   0  
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   5  
  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 11 2020, @02:59PM (13 children)

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday June 11 2020, @02:59PM (#1006311)

    Can't the same be said about the people that are upset? They didn't live in the south at the time, they didn't pick any cotton or whatnot.

    Disclaimer: I don't agree with this logic. From my perspective, equity initiatives for the past FIVE DECADES have given unequal (higher levels of) opportunity to those of the supposed disadvantaged races, sexes, etc. Coming from the "privileged" race, I was so fortunate to have two schoolteachers for parents, who themselves had parents who were career auto mechanics, maintenance men, schoolteacher and hairdressers - so privileged that I got off light on discipline once in 5th grade as compared to the other kid in the fight who had darker skin. Race _may_ have played a part in my being passed over for layoffs one time in 2005. Meanwhile: persons of color had a a larger selection of colleges that would admit them, lower bars for scholarships, advantage in getting interviews at larger companies, etc. But, I digress.

    The logic I don't agree with is: descendants of slaves started from a disadvantaged socio-economic position which was perpetuated for 100 years after the Civil War ended, and therefore, now 55 years further on they are still disproportionately poor. Equity initiatives "obviously" haven't gone far enough and they need more.

    I agree with the Obama statement: "Equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome."

    Sure, society is still biased here and there. Opportunities are never 100% equal for all people, never will be - that's the logical outcome of freedom + human nature. Nepotism, favoritism to the familiar. In my opinion we should never base our assessment of equity initiatives on outcomes, only on opportunities. From my perspective, equity programs, if anything, give too much opportunity advantage to minorities at this time.

    As for NASCAR and symbolism... there's been a fair amount of activity at Daytona Speedway in recent years attempting to reshape the image of the NASCAR fanbase away from the picture of a bunch of drunk rednecks. This may just be another step along that road.

    --
    🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:44PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:44PM (#1006329)

      attempting to reshape the image of the NASCAR fanbase away from the picture of a bunch of drunk rednecks

      Aren't they actually drunk rednecks?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:49PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:49PM (#1006335)

      >Equity initiatives "obviously" haven't gone far enough and they need more.

      You see, these programs that have been in place for decades did not solve the problem like we wanted. Therefore we will continue doing the same thing with more money and expect a different result. Failure of these programs and initiatives is more evidence of the need for more money to combat systemic *ism undermining said programs and initiatives.

      Coincidentally, if the problem was solved all of those non-profits and movements that have built up considerable power and influence will find themselves obsolete and lacking donor support.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:02PM (3 children)

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:02PM (#1006354) Journal

      Well they have a higher likelihood of being murdered by the police and going to jail for stuff white folks would get a warning for. That's not quite the extra opportunity they were hoping for, though.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:58PM

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:58PM (#1006414)

        And this is some of the chaotic froth that will always exist... equity incentives most likely "steered" me on an 11 year detour mid career, potentially costing me millions in lifetime compensation and potentially developmentally injuring my young children costing their future caregivers many millions more. Nobody's ever going to make everything right or fair.

        The police bubble of racial bias, particularly manifest in the South East U.S. but to a lesser extent all over, is long overdue for deflation. While we're at it, let's not forget to do something about the economic bias that exists in police actions and especially the justice system.

        --
        🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @05:01PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @05:01PM (#1006416)

        Numbers don't bear that out AT ALL.
        I would link to the government's own stats on this, but you'd never read it.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @10:06PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @10:06PM (#1006618)

          Actually, here are the facts [pnas.org].

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:28PM

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:28PM (#1006380) Journal
    • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:53PM (1 child)

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:53PM (#1006407) Journal

      Well, there's this thing, see? Opportunities still aren't equal. Maybe, if you were only 10-15% of the population with a totally dissimilar phenotype, you might understand. But since you aren't, you can't.

      --
      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
      • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 11 2020, @05:06PM

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday June 11 2020, @05:06PM (#1006421)

        Opportunities still aren't equal. Maybe,

        Never will be equal - right now they're "equitable" meaning: the supposedly disadvantaged groups have lower barriers to entry. We see this at my work when we call for resumes from HR. 90% of applicants are non-minority, but each group of candidates we're given to consider are >50% minority. That's a distinct opportunity disadvantage to the race/sex majority applicants.

        if you were only 10-15% of the population with a totally dissimilar phenotype, you might understand.

        Maybe. I, and my children, are a 2% dissimilar phenotype, and it sucks in ways you can't imagine unless you live it.

        --
        🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday June 12 2020, @01:08PM (3 children)

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday June 12 2020, @01:08PM (#1006842) Journal

      Simple question for you, Joe: would you be happy if you were suddenly treated the way black people in general are treated in this country? Absolutely the same, with all the assumptions people make about you and everything. If your answer isn't a resounding "yes, in every single aspect," then guess what: THESE THINGS HAVE NOT FIXED THE UNDERLYING ISSUE.

      No one sane is pushing for equal outcome as opposed to equal opportunity and that's a bullshit strawman. You're better than that, so knock it off. Opportunity is manifestly *not* equal yet, not even close, and some token scholarships are not going to make up for things like Flint's lead-laden water supply or the vast disparities in infant and neonatal mortality, for example. Much too little, much too late, and mostly just an insulting bunch of white-guilt milquetoast claptrap. They're aspirins for a tumor, and while the aspirin is better than nothing, to declare the cancer cured and refuse to help the patient further is itself harmful.

      --
      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday June 12 2020, @05:06PM (2 children)

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday June 12 2020, @05:06PM (#1006953)

        Joe: would you be happy if you were suddenly treated the way black people in general are treated in this country? Absolutely the same, with all the assumptions people make about you and everything. If your answer isn't a resounding "yes, in every single aspect," then guess what: THESE THINGS HAVE NOT FIXED THE UNDERLYING ISSUE.

        As a mid-50s engineer, looking at other black mid-50s engineers - I'd probably migrate from Florida up to the NorthEast, because conditions are definitely better for blacks up there, and the federal equity programs still apply giving minorities that little advantage. My current job placement happened by acquisition of the company I was working for, I had applied to the same job 3 times over the previous 10 years and never even got a callback - probably because I'm white-male. Maybe it's a case of "the grass is always greener" maybe it's the round of companies I interviewed with in Melbourne where every-single-one was minority owned because of the financial and contract award advantages they get, but, yes, in that respect I do think I'd rather be a minority and treated as such.

        If you're talking about dealing with asshole rednecks on the street, you know they are abusive to cultured whites almost as much as they are blacks and other minorities, right?

        If you're talking about being stopped for "driving while black," I've been stopped for "driving while poor" many times - it pretty much stopped happening when I stopped driving my piece-of-shit college car.

        Our circle of friends is "overrepresentative" with black people, we probably run 25-30% black friends and acquaintances. Recent stories of "it happened because I was black" are rare, really rare, but easily repeated and amplified. Now, go back 35-40 years to Muscle Shoals Alabama and my wife will tell you how she was working in a Pizza Hut and the manager told her "we don't serve their kind here, go get those menus back." Yeah, it existed, and still does exist in small pockets - there are definitely places where being black is more of a disadvantage than being white in Puna, Hawaii is. Taken as the aggregate whole, over the parts of the U.S. that I know enough about to have any sort of opinion (East Coast, Gulf Coast, Cali Coast, Denver) I'd rate being black as a tiny overall advantage over being white white. Being other minorities even better.

        If you start the discussion with "all else being equal" then, yes, I'll take the black skin - or any other minority status you would grant me, at any age.

        If you get into the would you rather be "a poor black child born in the projects" vs "a typical white kid from the suburbs"... I'd call that a different sort of straw-man, take race out of the statements and it's still a no-brainer. Put a white kid in the projects with no dad and a crackhead mom, and it will be worse for them than a black kid. I've known the outlier black kids in the suburbs, including one girl who got herself adopted away from her crackhead mom and into a nice white suburban family, black was an advantage for her.

        Is it time for the asshole abusive racist and otherwise regressive police to be purged? Long past time, and if you magically made them colorblind they would still need purging - a pig on a power trip is a pig on a power trip, doesn't matter what color you are, they're gonna ruin your whole life if they can - it's what they live for.

        --
        🌻🌻 [google.com]
        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday June 13 2020, @09:01PM (1 child)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday June 13 2020, @09:01PM (#1007550) Journal

          And you're actually touching on something important but often-overlooked in these discussions: there is no separating racial issues from class/poverty issues, because the two so very often both proxy for and feed into one another. I think, sometimes, that fixing economic injustice would fix some of the underlying racial trouble automatically, and wonder if the converse is true.

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday June 13 2020, @11:18PM

            by JoeMerchant (3937) on Saturday June 13 2020, @11:18PM (#1007593)

            At this point in my life, I understand all too well that I'm not going to "fix the world" - but maybe I can make a positive difference in some small areas.

            Between race and economics, I would choose to fight for better economic equality of opportunity. Race is a problem, but as you say: fix the economics and a lot (not all) of the race problems vanish automatically.

            --
            🌻🌻 [google.com]
  • (Score: 3, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:59PM

    by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:59PM (#1006350) Journal

    Can't the same be said about the people that are upset? They didn't live in the south at the time, they didn't pick any cotton or whatnot. So they are upset about something that happened to someone else. Perhaps they should just drop this whole proxy-outrage they fell about things that didn't happen to them.

    These are the same folks constantly going on about how the Democrats used to be the party of slavery.

    Ok then, I'm fine with removing MY flag from NASCAR!