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posted by martyb on Thursday June 11 2020, @01:27PM   Printer-friendly
from the A-See-Change dept.

Many sources are reporting what we can read at ABC News,

NASCAR banned the Confederate flag from its races and properties on Wednesday, formally distancing itself from what for many is a symbol of slavery and racism that had been a familiar sight at stock car events for more than 70 years.

The move comes amid social unrest around the globe following the death in police custody of George Floyd, an unarmed black man in Minneapolis. Protests have roiled the nation for days and Confederate monuments are being taken down across the South — the tradtiional fan base for NASCAR.

[...] The issue was pushed to the fore this week as Bubba Wallace, NASCAR's lone black driver, called for the banishment of the Confederate flag and said there was "no place" for them in the sport. At long last, NASCAR obliged.

"The presence of the confederate flag at NASCAR events runs contrary to our commitment to providing a welcoming and inclusive environment for all fans, our competitors and our industry," NASCAR said. "Bringing people together around a love for racing and the community that it creates is what makes our fans and sport special. The display of the confederate flag will be prohibited from all NASCAR events and properties."

[...] The move was announced before Wednesday night's race at Martinsville Speedway where Wallace, an Alabama native, was driving a Chevrolet with a #BlackLivesMatter paint scheme. Wallace got a shoutout on Twitter from several athletes, including NBA star LeBron James, for using the paint scheme in the race.


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by bradley13 on Thursday June 11 2020, @02:32PM (35 children)

    by bradley13 (3053) on Thursday June 11 2020, @02:32PM (#1006301) Homepage Journal

    What bothers me about this is: who gets to determine the meaning of a symbol?

    The Confederate Battle Flag was apparently given new life in the 1950s, and it was meant as a racist symbol.

    Over the decades, this meaning faded, and the flag simply came to represent regional pride. The evidence for this is the fact, by the 1980s, it was prominently featured in the Dukes of Hazzard TV series. Just some Joe Sixpack types with a hot car and stupid adventures. No racist overtones - just Southern pride.

    As near as I can tell, the only people who, today, regard the flag as a racist symbol are people looking for a reason to be offended. They are, however, creating racism, by attacking a symbol that means something completely different to the people who actually use it.

    Just my non-PC opinion, worth every penny you paid for it...

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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 11 2020, @02:42PM (4 children)

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday June 11 2020, @02:42PM (#1006304)

    Just some Joe Sixpack types with a hot car and stupid adventures. No racist overtones

    Blacks weren't exactly depicted as equals in the Duke family circle. Not that the show was attempting to be anything other than entertainment, but if they had thrown in an actual black family friend "on level" with the Dukes (not a servant or comic relief), that would have resonated poorly with the target demographics being entertained - depressed ratings and killed the show faster.

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    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:38PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:38PM (#1006396)

      Right. Every white person is a racist unless they have some black friends to be seen with. PROMINENTLY.
      Speaking of shows from roughly that era, how come "Good Times" set in Chicago housing projects was all about black people? You didn't see any whites except for that tall dopey white guy that was the butt of jokes.
      I am sorry if a show set in Appalachia (Dukes) didn't have enough urban diversity for you.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @08:37PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @08:37PM (#1006582)

        Just having black friends isn't enough. You have to kowtow to them and wash their feet. Give it another year or two and you'll have to volunteer to be their footstool or something. This is all about power and dominance now and the goalposts will never stop moving.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Thexalon on Thursday June 11 2020, @10:36PM (1 child)

        by Thexalon (636) on Thursday June 11 2020, @10:36PM (#1006636)

        The rural areas of the US, including Appalachia, weren't all-white or even mostly-white for most of its history. They slowly became nearly-all-white from approximately 1880-1940 due to organized efforts of racist terrorism, most notably "sundown towns [tougaloo.edu]" where any black person found in the area after dark was likely to be murdered or at least beaten to a pulp. And they weren't shy about it, often putting signs up at the border of the town announcing this to anyone passing by. This in turn led to black people leaving rural areas and moving into major cities, as well as the development of the "Green Book" in which black people informed each other on how they could move around in their own country without getting murdered.

        So, if Dukes of Hazzard was lily-white, that both was a reflection of segregated entertainment and a reflection of rural America having black people kicked out by force.

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        • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @12:34AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @12:34AM (#1006686)

          And they (almost) all left, leaving nary a black trace.
          Tell me about that latest Loch Ness monster book you read, too. The truth is out there!

  • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 11 2020, @02:46PM (9 children)

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday June 11 2020, @02:46PM (#1006306)

    As near as I can tell, the only people who, today, regard the flag as a racist symbol are people looking for a reason to be offended.

    For whatever reason, there are a few very visible flag flying loud pickup driving individuals in Jacksonville, FL - they tend to come out on Friday nights, but you can see them other times as well... near as I can tell, they are looking to offend as many people as possible.

    The "Trump boats" on the river are a slightly different breed, I think they think they're currying favor with the richer folks around them - but they obviously enjoy pissing off "non-believers" in the meantime too.

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    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:03PM (8 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:03PM (#1006313)

      > looking to offend as many people

      It's pretty easy to offend people these days. So many people are perpetually offended that it's a chore to hear about another example of someone offended.

      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:24PM (6 children)

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:24PM (#1006319) Journal

        Yes, there are people who are easily offended.

        That does not remove that fact that there are also people who actively and with purpose try to offend other people, perhaps everyone. They are not looking to offend the easily offended. They are looking to offend anyone they can. (example: Fred Phelps)

        Then there are those who (perhaps unwittingly) offend everyone by selfish pursuit of their own interests (pharma-bro Martin Shkreli).

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        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:33PM (5 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:33PM (#1006387)

          There is a difference between Phelps who actively tries to agitate others. And seeing the confederate flag as something part of your history, heritage, and identity that is not inherently racist even if that history has some blight. I have seen that flag used more as representing a rebel and heritage than a racist looking to provoke like Phelps.

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by DannyB on Thursday June 11 2020, @07:02PM (3 children)

            by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 11 2020, @07:02PM (#1006521) Journal

            What I don't get is that it is a "rebel and heritage" that is nothing to be proud of. Not any more than the fact that my country's ancestors captured and enslaved people and brought them to this land. I can have pride in my country and its flag, despite his history having blemishes. But what's with the rebel thing? To be in rebellion of anti-slavery and anti-racism? That sounds pro-slavery and pro-racist to me. As for heritage, it is not my heritage (that I know of), but if I knew for a fact that it were, it is not something I would be proud of. I would want to abandon the symbols of that and be unified in being proud of my heritage as an American and display an American flag.

            Thus, I have some weak inclination to assume the worst of people who seem just a wee bit too proud to use such symbols.

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            • (Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @08:18PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @08:18PM (#1006572)

              Kaepernick says you shouldn't be proud of the American flag either. He made a point of refusing to stand for it and all his buddies want you to do the same.
              As another example, you say you're glad you don't have Southern ancestry because that absolves you of a bloodline whose ancestors SINNED against blacks. BLM says ALL white people are guilty. You too, my friend. But I did nothing against black people, you say. But look at your skin: you are white.

              • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday June 11 2020, @09:42PM

                by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 11 2020, @09:42PM (#1006606) Journal

                you say you're glad you don't have Southern ancestry

                I said that whether I have Southern ancestry is unknown. I also said that if I did, it is not something I would be "proud" of.

                that absolves you of a bloodline whose ancestors SINNED against blacks.

                I thought I said something about "my country's ancestors captured and enslaved people and brought them to this land". So I do recognize the evil done in the past by ancestors.

                I don't blame people for what their ancestors did.

                I didn't choose to be white. I don't think it makes me better than anyone else. Or worse.

                I am able, unlike some here, to recognize real injustices done in the past against recognizable groups.

                As for being proud of the American flag. There are things in American history that I don't think we should be proud of. One of them is how we enslaved black people. And how we (or Southern people) treated them for the next 100+ years after that. But there are also other things America has done which are not exactly good things. And they span quite a range of time.

                Terrible things in our past history, like NTSC.

                --
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            • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @12:59AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @12:59AM (#1006694)

              ... the fact that my country's ancestors captured and enslaved people and brought them to this land.

              WTF do you mean by "my country's ancestors", and where, pray tell Danny Boy, is "this land"?? If you're an "American" (USA), you're clueless (again) and offensive.

              I'll help you, read this BEFORE you reply: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade [wikipedia.org]

              Then I'd love to know why people like you are so proud and full of yourself to denounce your own ancestors.

              My history book tells me that my ancestors never had slaves, and fought against slavery. But then, to be fair, they were a bit north of the Mason-Dixon line.

          • (Score: 2) by MostCynical on Friday June 12 2020, @02:28AM

            by MostCynical (2589) on Friday June 12 2020, @02:28AM (#1006738) Journal

            even Rolling coal [autoblog.com] is political.

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      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:57PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:57PM (#1006346)

        It's pretty easy to offend people these days.

        No, you idiot, it's not easy.

  • (Score: 1, Troll) by SomeGuy on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:11PM (13 children)

    by SomeGuy (5632) on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:11PM (#1006315)

    The thing that is really scary is - what will they claim is offensive next?

    I fully expect in the future, even the word "black" may change to become "offensive". Good luck talking about paint colors, the night sky, or a power outage. Suddenly there will be a whole slew of new stuff that is "racist" all over again. You will be lucky if you are permitted to use the word as technical engineering jargon, like master/slave. On the brighter side, perhaps we will have to go back to beige computer cases.

    Don't forget to change all of the history books, because history is also offensive.

    Hey, can we get rid of all references to "God", because that is offensive and symbolizes child molestation and stupidity? What? No?

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:58PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:58PM (#1006348)

      Many private organizations SHOULD get rid of such symbolism. It is up to them as conservatives have been touting for decades. Shoe is on the other foot and now they wanna cry their crocodile tears. Boooo hoooooo. Confederate flags aren't a protected class, and you should appreciate the irony of them being prejudized against.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:35PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:35PM (#1006388)

      I live in the deep south and this is a scary question that has come up a lot in the past few weeks. They are wanting the remove anything that was Civil War related, but unfortunately that's most things in the city. Statues, the names of cities within the county, buildings, battlefields, forts, etc. All of these things have been in place for more than 100 years, so no matter what it is or why it was put in place, it's now part of the city's history.

      I'm wondering if it will be demanded that all of the antibellum houses in the area need to be bulldozed? They are private property owned by an individual, but people are not thinking clearly and are making unreasonable demands at this point, so I've heard people seriously ask the question of if the demands continue on the current path. What about artifacts from the war that can still be found on the ground in many locations? Should they be illegal to own?

      Does it all need to go? If you ask them, then yes, including removal from the history books. Will the folks that are demanding the removal or destruction of these things be satisfied when these things are gone or will they move on to something else to offend them and use for the focus of their anger?

      I think that they should leave things in place unless the new rules apply evenly to everything. If you want to remove statues, then fine, remove them, but remove all of the statues, not just the ones that are popular to hate right now. Same for all of the other historical things and places. If they are not going to apply the rules evenly, then at least let the people that live here vote on it. I might not like the result of the vote, but could live with it if it's what the majority of the people wanted.

      What I do not like is the fact that all of this is being decided by mob rule. A very vocal, but small group of people (in our area), are able to change the look and history of a city because they have the advantage of a tragic crisis as a catalyst to make demands and if they don't get their way then they'll tear things up and burn things down.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @06:09PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @06:09PM (#1006460)

        Super duper scary, how dare they remove confederate statues! How DARE they???

        If you think that equates with book burning and re-writing history then you're a special kind of conspiracy crazy. Conservatives have been banning books and censoring people since forever, so get off your high horse.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @08:21PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @08:21PM (#1006573)

        It is interesting that the overlap between the statue supporters and those who consider themselves "real Americans" is very large considering that they are passionately paying homage to traitors in the very literal sense of the word. Where else do you see statues and monuments raised to enemy officers? Where are the Rommel statues? The military bases named for Giáp? Not only raised, but revered? And consider themselves "real" Americans in honoring and worshiping them, people who were traitors and un-American in both the literal and figurative sense of the words? It is just amazing.

        Southern Pride has an inescapable history of racism, and even if a lot of people look past the past and focus on what it means to them today, it is still a celebration of an insurrection against the country. But they're the first to shout "America: love it or leave it!" all without any hint of self awareness.

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @08:41PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @08:41PM (#1006583)

        It's important to provide some context about the statues. Most aren't actually from the Civil War era. Many were built between 1890 and 1950 [history.com] and were not actually memorials of the Civil War. A lot of them were cheap and mass-produced [washingtonpost.com], not carefully crafted memorials. If the goal is to memorialize the lives lost in the Civil War, it seems like cheap generic statues aren't a good way to do so. We need to draw a distinction between actual memorials, many of which are in cemeteries, and statues intended to promote the reasons the Confederacy went to war. Context matters, and I highly doubt that there's much interest in removing legitimate memorials.

        Take Germany for example, where there are lots of memorials that mourn the evils of the Nazis, but none that glorify them [theatlantic.com]. Dachau [wikipedia.org], a former concentration camp, hasn't been demolished, but stands as a very solemn memorial of the atrocities committed by the Nazis. Nobody wants these memorials removed. The statues you're describing would be like if Germans built statues of Adolf Hitler and SS Generals in the 1960s and 1970s that portrayed them favorably, then tried to defend their presence as memorials of the past. That simply isn't welcome in Germany.

        A lot of these monuments are from the Jim Crow era, built to support racism. Those need to go. Renaming streets and even cities isn't entirely uncommon, so I don't understand why this is inherently a problem. But there's good reason to think that many of these street names are also from the same era as the aforementioned statues [1843magazine.com]. This seems far more about celebrating the cause of the Confederacy, not memorializing the Civil War.

        As for plantation houses, those are legitimate monuments from that era. Many have burned to the ground since the Civil War. But I haven't been able to find much interest about actually demolishing the houses. There are criticisms of events like weddings at plantations [thenation.com] that could be interpreted to view the history of those buildings in a positive manner, but I'm not aware of any seriously efforts to demolish those houses. There are, however, a lot of that are memorials or are considered historic places [wikipedia.org].

        The distinction seems to be between legitimate memorials and relics from the Civil War and the decades prior versus monuments created several decades after the Civil War to celebrate the cause of the Confederacy. A lot of the fear mongering seems to omit this important distinction. Most of the modern use of Confederate flags is in the latter category, celebrating the goals of the Confederacy, not as memorials of the Civil War and the decades leading up to it.

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:36PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:36PM (#1006390)

      Sure. You should be able to proudly use the N word too, right?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @05:09PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @05:09PM (#1006426)

        Oh Jesus. Just say the word: Nigger.
        A word so terrible it cannot be uttered... except in copious amounts of entertainment such as rap music.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @10:16PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @10:16PM (#1006626)

          F word you C word W word R word

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @11:06PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @11:06PM (#1007138)

        When someone says it, they should only get a well deserved punch in the face. Not a permanent worldwide humiliation and unpersoning.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @07:06PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @07:06PM (#1006525)

      Huh? How exactly are "they" claiming this is an offensive symbol? It was explicitly used for that purpose by the Ku Klux Klan, which a terrorist organization, and adopted as the flag of the Dixiecrats, whose party platform was built on the issue of segregation. It's an offensive symbol because racists chose to use it explicitly for that purpose. If you don't like that, your objections should be with the racists who decided it is an offensive symbol. Your question is just like asking who decided the swastika is an offensive symbol after its use as a positive symbol for thousands of years. The fact is, the Nazi Party in Germany decided that the symbol is offensive because they chose to use it for that purpose. If you want to complain to the people who decided that certain symbols represent racism, go complain to the racists who chose to use those symbols for that purpose.

      And by the way, context matters. For example, the word "Negro" is not offensive in all contexts. It isn't offensive at all to talk about the Negro Leagues [wikipedia.org]. Of course, in that context, it's referring to black baseball players who weren't allowed to play in MLB because of segregation and organized their own leagues.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by janrinok on Friday June 12 2020, @11:19AM (2 children)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday June 12 2020, @11:19AM (#1006816) Journal

      This has already happened.

      Watch the film the "Dam Busters" about the exploits of 617 Sqn RAF during WW2. Wg Cdr Guy Gibson had a black Labrador dog. If you watch the film today you will hear the dog being called 'Digger'. It wasn't called Digger, it was called Nigger. Someone in the USA decided that history must be rewritten and so had the sound track changed. I remember watching the film in my youth and it was certainly called Nigger then, and the grave (which was then located on an operational RAF station) still bore the same name.

      Shoe polish that I bought in the 1970s was described as 'Nigger Black' on the labelling. You can't buy it any more.

      Now, people are so frightened of a word that they dare not even use it - they call it the 'N-word'.

      The word originated in the 18th century [wikipedia.org] as an adaptation of the Spanish negro, a descendant of the Latin adjective niger, which means black. It was used to describe many things other than a certain race or, more accurately, a labourer of that race.

      In its original English-language usage, nigger (then spelled niger) was a word for a dark-skinned individual. The earliest known published use of the term dates from 1574, in a work alluding to "the Nigers of Aethiop, bearing witnes."[2] According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the first derogatory usage of the term nigger was recorded two centuries later, in 1775.[3]

      Read that again - the earliest known published use of the term dates from 1574.

      Today we can use the term black - but no doubt, as you suggest, someone will decide that such a phrase is inappropriate again and demand that we change it once more.

      To me, while being interesting, the terminology is less important that the problem that we face today. We should , indeed must, strive to remove any discrimination based on nationality, race, religion, skin-colour, gender, handicap or whatever else someone might dream up. When we are born we do not get to choose any of these things. All men should be judged upon their own standards and achievements, not on something that their ancestors may have done centuries, decades or years before they were even conceived.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @06:06PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @06:06PM (#1006989)

        So, janrinok, you're saying that, historically, it is OK to be racist?

        • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Saturday June 13 2020, @06:33AM

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Saturday June 13 2020, @06:33AM (#1007332) Journal

          Where did I say that?

          I am saying that you should judge me on my actions - not on the actions of people I have never known who died long before I was born. I am now retired but during my active life I socialised every day with people from all over the world, of many diverse religions, and probably of various sexualities. I do not judge people on how they look.

          I am not responsible for how people were mistreated in the past - I am responsible for how I treat people and how I help to prevent others from being mistreated today.

          People have been mistreated for millenia - the ancient Egyptians had a huge slave workforce. I haven't seen anybody protesting today about the mistreatment of those slaved during the building of the pyramids. As the human race has developed it has made many mistakes and we have learned, albeit very slowly, how other people should be treated. The more recent past, particularly in America but elsewhere as well, has been a terrible part of that learning process.

          During WW2 the Americans who were stationed in the UK couldn't understand why British police would not enforce the segregation laws that the US forces were used to with regards to bars, mixing with others from different ethnic backgrounds, etc. It took a while for them to learn that it was not illegal to do any of those things in the UK. But the UK did have, and still has, a problem today. Like elsewhere, it is a slow learning process.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:22PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:22PM (#1006318)

    The racism is already there.

    The flag is a symbol of an organization that killed in order to prevent the end of racist slavery. The confederate states were very explicit that what motivated their failed secession was their belief that blacks were naturally inferior and should be thankful to be enslaved, praise Jesus!

    Yiou are not even trying to tell. Your non-PC opinion is worth much, much less than the attention anyone paid it.

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:54PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:54PM (#1006342)

    What bothers me about this is: who gets to determine the meaning of a symbol?

    Anyone who can capitalize on its meaning.

    Capital doesn't have to be money- it can be power, prestige, social distinction, whatever makes them feel more important.

  • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:55PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @03:55PM (#1006343)

    What bothers me about this is: who gets to determine the meaning of a symbol?

    The compiler, of course. Based on the language specification.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by istartedi on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:18PM (2 children)

    by istartedi (123) on Thursday June 11 2020, @04:18PM (#1006372) Journal

    This. In the 1950s, states put the emblem on their flags as a measure of defiance against the Brown v. Board of Education decision. Ironically, race relations were progressing well during the era in which these flags flew. The flag never totally got away from its roots (that's not really possible), but it became somewhat de-politicized.

    The Dukes of Hazard might represent the peak of this era. The flag also came to stand for any kind of rebellion, and was thus picked up by the rock-n-roll community outside the South. Most famously, Dime Bag's Darrell's guitar had one on it. It was not standing for rebellion against Yankees, it was now rebels *without* a cause.

    It also acquired a meaning of "illegitimate authority". If a cop showed up at your door with a Confederate flag on their uniform, you knew right away they were delivering a singing telegram, or stripping or something.

    The rebel flag was the "party flag" also. You'd never dream of throwing an American flag down on the beach and lounging on it. Rebel flag? No problem.

    Alas, the flag couldn't escape its past and I'd say some time around the late 90s it became re-politicized. European hate groups who were barred from flying the nazi flag began to use it. The NAACP launched a crusade against the state flags. You got a resurgence in people using it for the "stay away from this house, n***** purpose" in states outside the South. By the time this ill fated attempt at redemption [wikipedia.org] occurred, the golden age of casual rebel flag flying was well on its way out. Just a couple years later, the church shooting in SC would put the final nail in the coffin.

    You can't be "just a Skynyrd fan" now. It's not possible. If I had one, I'd bury it in the closet somewhere, and possibly explain some day to grandkids that it wasn't always this way.

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