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posted by martyb on Thursday June 11 2020, @05:44PM   Printer-friendly
from the [deleted] dept.

HBO Max Temporarily Removes ‘Gone With the Wind’ From Library

An HBO Max spokesperson says “Gone With the Wind” will eventually return to the platform with a discussion about its historical context and a denouncement of its racist depictions.

On Tuesday, HBO Max removed the 1939 film from its library in the wake of protests over the death of George Floyd.

[...] Upon its release, “Gone With the Wind” broke theater attendance records and was the highest-grossing film of all time to that point. It still holds the record when adjusted for inflation. However, despite being considered one of the greatest films of all time, some film commentators have since criticized its depiction of slavery and Black people.


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  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by dltaylor on Thursday June 11 2020, @06:22PM (26 children)

    by dltaylor (4693) on Thursday June 11 2020, @06:22PM (#1006477)

    "Gone with the Wind" is a product of its time, just like the U.S. Constitution, which, until amended, specifically endorsed slavery; the words are still in there. It is an important part of film history (although I prefer "Song of the South" as an object lesson). Yes, parts of it make me wince, but much less than "n****r" and/or "n***a" as every third word in what passes for music in some circles.

    This is like "1984", where we are revising history, rather than acknowledge the truth that the past has high and low points, often in the same event. The current protests, assuming that they are not entirely swept under the rug, must be recognized as being both a potential moment of growth for the U.S. "white" population and a moment of stupidity, hatred, and greed in the actions of the firebombers and looters. It will be instructive to see which of those is longer remembered

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  • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday June 11 2020, @06:41PM

    by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday June 11 2020, @06:41PM (#1006495) Journal

    specifically endorsed slavery

    Still does...

    --
    La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by wisnoskij on Thursday June 11 2020, @06:44PM (1 child)

    by wisnoskij (5149) <{jonathonwisnoski} {at} {gmail.com}> on Thursday June 11 2020, @06:44PM (#1006500)

    The strange thing is that the films these guys go after are always the pro-black propaganda.

    The Sound of the South, GwtW are films specifically designed to ease racial tensions, and make people feel good about black people.

    Here is the opening criticism on wikipedia.

    [Gone with the Wind] perpetuated Civil War myths and black stereotypes.[102] David Reynolds wrote that "... the black slaves are mostly dutiful and content

    The same could be said about tSotS. These are stereotypes pushed on America with the explicit purpose of forcing white people to like, trust, and be willing to live beside black people. Who truly believes that we have moved past needing these positive black stereotypes to create a functioning society?

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @01:41AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @01:41AM (#1006712)

      These are stereotypes pushed on America with the explicit purpose of forcing white people to like, trust, and be willing to live beside black people. Who truly believes that we have moved past needing these positive black stereotypes to create a functioning society?

      I can't respond to the idea it was explicitly forced on us for a purpose. Honestly, this seems like an attempt by many sides to retcon history for their purposes. Your idea though it helped normalize black people, and make people willing to live besides black people, and whether we still need it is interesting.

      Last night I watched it again. I have everything Disney ever produced in their original formats. Got it off the dark web some years ago to preserve history for one, and to be able to show the young children today some truly wonderful cartoons from their Golden Age. For an awful lot of people, across multiple generations, Disney movies and cartoons were influential in general. Combined with Looney Tunes, other cartoon properties, and the 80's Saturday morning cartoons, generations of children were raised and influenced by the TV. Although, the 1st Disney generation had the distinction of seeing them on the big screen first. A ton of kids packed into theaters in the 30's, 40's and 50's seeing Disney cartoons, and the Song Of The South.

      I believe I was influenced positively by black portrayals on TV, and positive ones. Dr. Huxtable, Mr. T, Uhura, La Forge, all helped influence me along with Uncle Remus. As a child though, you didn't really care about the live action parts. Some of that was confusing, and I can see how it can be interpreted differently by people. For me, I saw friendship between the children, and the inequities aren't something that children readily understand. Uncle Remus in general was played by a wonderful actor. The warmth and empathy he had, and the way he looked after the kid was very nice to see on the screen. One could understand how children would see Uncle Remus quite favorably, and I can believe that such experiences did influence me to not see black men with fear. That's *before* we even get to the animated elements. Those scenes are by far some of my favorite. Briar Rabbit outwitting Briar Bear and Briar Fox is hilarious, and Uncle Remus delivers the whole thing with excellent storytelling, and Roger Rabbit-like integration with the animation. The Zipp-dee-doo-dah song is the just gasoline on the fire so to speak.

      As a child I did not see the negative elements, it didn't occur to me. Whether it subtly enforced racism in me I found doubtful, and those parts I believe were just over my head. In an innocent viewing of those parts of the movie (just Uncle Remus and the boy), it's actually quite wonderful. Thinking about it now, perhaps I tend to lend old black men the benefit of the doubt, that they're more Uncle Remus's than men to fear. Although, I really want to see people embodying their more positive potentials than negative ones.

      Do we still need them? Need what though? Only objection I can think of with Uncle Remus (isolated on his own) is that he is portrayed as poor, a slave without outright stating it, and a patois possibly negatively associated with ebonics. It was appropriate for the time period though, and as a child I even understood this was something that happened over a long time ago. It wasn't a negative because I just accepted him for who he was without judgement, and why not? Watch it again if you have a chance. Uncle Remus is just pretty awesome, but perhaps not appropriate for contemporary audiences. At least not without a parent explaining the context that this was a long time ago and that people got better.

      We don't really need anything. There doesn't need to be an education, or some sort of mental preparation. A YouTube video of smiling black people interacting postively with white people? :) We need to steadily advertise this in a new brand awareness campaign for black people stat.

      All we need to do is treat each normally. If all our sitcoms and creations show us treating each other equally from the start, it won't occur to us that we need to explicitly teach our children to not fear black people. Which the opposite would help too, and that's not pushing stuff designed to teach people to fear black people. So get rid of Tucker and Fox News :) So while Uncle Remus I'm sure did influence how I see older black men via a positive stereotype, it was also a lifetime living next to black people and finding the whole thing a big nothingburger that influenced me too. Talk about luck or something, but I've never had the feared stereotypical violent interaction with black men. The worst stereotype I've had is probably assuming more black people smoke weed than white people do and assuming some dude is holding just because.

      Which brings up diversity and that whole alt-right nutjobbery. That's hilarious to me, because in my average every day life I've been exposed to a very diverse group of people constantly. You know what is fucking strange man? Watching a TV show with all white people that isn't set in Norway, or back in Viking times. The world is diverse, and people are generally nice and kind to each other.

      Perhaps, just show the truth more.

  • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday June 11 2020, @06:46PM (4 children)

    by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 11 2020, @06:46PM (#1006503) Journal

    I'm glad someone beat me to mentioning Disney's "Song of the South". The movie Disney has tried to disappear for years. One of the biggest problems is that movie is the origin of one of Disney's most popular songs "Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah". [youtube.com]

    That song is featured in theme park live parades till this very day the age of covid-19.

    Another interesting thing is that the 1940 Pinocchio cartoon film openly uses the word "jackass". A word that I don't use. Until recently. And only in reference to Trump. It's what his middle initial J must stand for.

    (I only use the seven basic curse words: Fiddle, Foodle, Diddle, Doodle, Piddle, Foo and Sticks. I use them in combination with possible prefixes and suffixes. And I use them a lot. Lilke: Oh . . . . Diddley Foo! And with an extended Fffff sound . . . Oh Fffffffiddle sticks! And this is serious, not sarcastic.)

    --
    A 'midden heap' is a reserved area of memory that the Java GC simply refuses to service.
    • (Score: 2) by gtomorrow on Thursday June 11 2020, @06:57PM (2 children)

      by gtomorrow (2230) on Thursday June 11 2020, @06:57PM (#1006514)

      I only use the seven basic curse words...

      You're a strange bird, Danny B.

      BTW, didn't you get the memo? [soylentnews.org]

      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday June 11 2020, @07:17PM (1 child)

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 11 2020, @07:17PM (#1006530) Journal

        There is hydrocodone. Which is cheaper and better than cannabis products.

        Maybe it isn't the word you say so much as how intensely and sincerely you say it. And maybe how frequently. I definitely do not shy away from using my curse words. Well, maybe I do avoid them somewhat.

        Once, and yes it actually was at a Disney World resort, I mentioned the seven basic curse words thing (above) to my wife and daughter, and they laughed hysterically for nearly an hour -- because they knew it was true.

        --
        A 'midden heap' is a reserved area of memory that the Java GC simply refuses to service.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @10:15PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @10:15PM (#1006625)

          There is hydrocodone.

          Sure, if you can find a doctor willing to give you a prescription. Yes, I'm fucking bitter.

          Why don't the rioters burn down DEA buildings?

    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @09:29PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @09:29PM (#1006602)

      (I only use the seven basic curse words: Fiddle, Foodle, Diddle, Doodle, Piddle, Foo and Sticks. I use them in combination with possible prefixes and suffixes. And I use them a lot. Lilke: Oh . . . . Diddley Foo! And with an extended Fffff sound . . . Oh Fffffffiddle sticks! And this is serious, not sarcastic.)

      I read that in the voice of Tigger.

  • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @06:53PM (13 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @06:53PM (#1006509)

    Whites aren't growing from this experience. All they see is a bunch of folks using 1 mans death to riot and loot and take and do whatever they want. It's not the *whites* that need to grow from this - it's the people causing chaos and damage. Fight me on this - you'll lose on principle.

    • (Score: 2) by gtomorrow on Thursday June 11 2020, @07:01PM

      by gtomorrow (2230) on Thursday June 11 2020, @07:01PM (#1006519)

      Whites aren't growing from this experience...

      Ah. Hey, thanks for straightening us all out on the topic, anonymous coward.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Bot on Thursday June 11 2020, @07:26PM (8 children)

      by Bot (3902) on Thursday June 11 2020, @07:26PM (#1006537) Journal

      As an italo, I don't see why I should kneel for mr snuffed by police when nobody kneeled when a boy was raped 200 mt from my house by islamic immigrants, when a 16 year old girl overdosed thanks to a nigerian in the train station 400mt and when before killing an italian white girl a black guy messaged something like 'gtg i have a white girl to rape'. If our lives don't matter why should yours.

      --
      Account abandoned.
      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @07:45PM (7 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @07:45PM (#1006552)

        One is a crime that is terrible and should be punished, the other is a systemic problem that all of society needs to address and punish the criminals given cover of law.

        You are conflating your bigotry with real issues, try again.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @08:26PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @08:26PM (#1006577)

          According to what you just said, you need to be punished and reeducated.
          It's a systemic problem. What's that? YOU'RE not part of the problem? Sounds like sonebody is in denial. It's not about an individual's actions; it's about an ENTIRE race being guilty. Just by looking at your skin, I will tell you if you are guilty of racism or not.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @02:08AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @02:08AM (#1006729)

            I understand the twist you're trying to play, but since it fails basic reading comprehension it just makes you look stupid for trying to shoehorn it in.

        • (Score: 2) by Bot on Friday June 12 2020, @12:54PM (4 children)

          by Bot (3902) on Friday June 12 2020, @12:54PM (#1006834) Journal

          Islam is not a systemic problem?

          --
          Account abandoned.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @03:42PM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @03:42PM (#1006913)

            You're right, Islam is is trying hard to catch up to Catholicism. Thanks, maybe we should place them both on the terror watch lists.

            • (Score: 2) by PocketSizeSUn on Friday June 12 2020, @04:27PM (2 children)

              by PocketSizeSUn (5340) on Friday June 12 2020, @04:27PM (#1006932)

              Remind me again. Which one is running the slave market in Libya?

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @06:06PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @06:06PM (#1006990)

                Christianity is a religion /for/ slaves. It's very authority-friendly. (Render undo Caesar, turn the other cheek, etc.)

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @09:48PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @09:48PM (#1007099)

                Funny how this is a topic about how Christians used to be massive slave owners and some people are just so bent out of shape that Amazon dropped the movie from their catalog.

                Irony thy name be PocketSizeStupid. Corrected that weird SUn typo, you're welcome.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @07:48PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @07:48PM (#1006554)

      Translation: sit back and know your place.

      Great logic you've got there, as usual another idiot who can't tell the difference between peaceful protests and criminal rioters. Not to mention criminal police assaulting innocent people, that is gonna require more brain than the above AC has to stretch.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @07:57PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 11 2020, @07:57PM (#1006564)

        STOP SPREADING YOUR CORONAVIRUS

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @09:51PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @09:51PM (#1007101)

          5G mast pole up the arse for you! If you're real nice I'll ask Billy Gates to turn off your tracking chip.

  • (Score: 2, Informative) by slashnot on Thursday June 11 2020, @09:09PM (2 children)

    by slashnot (8607) on Thursday June 11 2020, @09:09PM (#1006596)

    So, I guess showing my kids The Song of the South on Disney+ anytime soon is out of the question? Fortunately, there are some organizations dedicated to preserving history [archive.org] (for now).

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @08:08PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @08:08PM (#1007531)

      It's rather telling what does and does not receive a scarlet letter for being racist. One of my friends insists that the second Indiana Jones movie is a terrible film due to racism. The only problem is that it's the least racist of the 4 films and ultimately, the cult is portrayed as being abhorrent by local standards, not something that's going on by a bunch of ignorant dark-skinned fellows. As opposed to the other films where they spend a bunch of time beating up on Nazis and Russians where none of them is capable of bucking the trend as opposed to those smart Indians that had to be drugged and had spells cast on them to engage in horrible things.

      If we look hard enough, there's always going to be something problematic in media. Adding context is a great solution, but at the end of the day, nobody would watch films or TV which slavishly avoided every possible stereotype. It would be boring and require an astonishing amount of exposition.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 14 2020, @11:00AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 14 2020, @11:00AM (#1007719)

        Spends all 4 movies stealing ethnic treasures only to put them in American/White museums(except for the grail), usually for some kind of reward or favor. He's literally the white man pilfering other ethnicities historical treasures. If you want to consider one of the most horrible movie series of all time, this is right there behind the prequel trilogy and massacring a bunch of children.

        George Lucas deserves to have all his cinematic awards stripped from him, his Museum named something else, and to be banished from Disney's board as an embarassment to American Society.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @02:15PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @02:15PM (#1006868)

    If they don't revise history, then people will realize how petty and childish some of their demands are. Acknowledging that Russians weren't allowed to visit large swathes of America back in the '50s , that Germans and Italians were sent to American concentration camps along with the Japanese or the fact that in many areas the Irish were less desirable than blacks would undercut their demands that things be solved for them without their having to make similar sacrifices.

    And that's a brief list, the full list would be a very, very long read. By poorly teaching history, it gives people a false sense of how we got where we are today. For nearly the entire history of this country White wasn't really a thing the way it is now. It was regularly adjusted over the years, but early on, you had to be pretty light in skin color to be considered White. The only privileges in America come from wealth and connection.