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posted by Fnord666 on Monday June 15 2020, @07:03PM   Printer-friendly
from the burning-facts dept.

China is furious that environmental readings have exposed lies around COVID-19 deaths. The data collected shows a clear mismatch from the information released by the Chinese government about how many people died and at what time. This is a very sensitive subject with China engaging in a cold trade war with Australia over the origins of COVID-19 while providing support to affected smallers countries as calls are made for China to pay billions in penalties due to their coverup.

Before Beijing's crackdown, China's bureaucracy had been conducting business as usual – analysing, assessing and reporting on everything about its citizenry. The researchers from Washington University and Ohio State University say they have tracked down this early government data and combined it with reports in state-controlled and social media.

Among this data was the activities of eight crematories in Wuhan. By January 25 these were inexplicably operating around the clock.

Based on such sources, the researchers argue the total number of infections and fatalities before February was at least ten times that of the official figure announced by Beijing.

[...] The study tracked the sale [of] funeral urns to verify these estimates. In the January-March period during which the crematoriums were operating at peak levels, some 36,000 had been distributed.


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  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Tuesday June 16 2020, @12:36PM (21 children)

    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday June 16 2020, @12:36PM (#1008568) Journal

    You're nuts, but thanks for clarifying

    Sorry, reality doesn't work that way. Your first post [soylentnews.org] was a whataboutism and many of the rest were as well.

    Secrecy and lies all around

    All our fancy machinery and technology has gone dark

    So what that there's "secrecy and lies all around"? The story is about a very specific set of alleged secrecy and lies.

    Whataboutism is a typical evasive fallacy which supports evil through dilution, moral equivalence, and redirection of the argument. There's all this secrecy and lies so what does this particular secrecy and lies matter?

    The obvious rebuttal to this nonsense is two-fold. First, it's obviously one-sided, you only bring up the argument with particular parties (other examples being bringing up [soylentnews.org] US elections when discussing the bogus Russian-run referendum in newly occupied Crimea or bringing up [soylentnews.org] a global map of corruption when confronted with evidence of Chinese illegal organ harvesting, and the Trump journals and observations are generally coupled with digs against the Democrat side). There's a clear pattern of biased evasion to these. You never excuse US flaws by claiming that China or Russia do them too.

    Second, the accusation or evil act is still there no matter how many other people and countries do their own bits of evil. Whataboutism got its name in the first place because it became a standard cliched ploy in Soviet rhetoric for dodging accusations. But the evil of the Soviets remained no matter how many flaws they brought up about others.

    You don't fight evil by saying others do it too.

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  • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday June 16 2020, @03:58PM (20 children)

    by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday June 16 2020, @03:58PM (#1008695) Journal

    You just sound like your regular democrat there, refusing to clean up your own house. All you have are distractions. I expected better from you

    --
    La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday June 17 2020, @12:58AM (19 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 17 2020, @12:58AM (#1008950) Journal

      You just sound like your regular democrat there, refusing to clean up your own house.

      Why should my country be treated any different from China or Russia? You excuse worse in this thread.

      All you have are distractions. I expected better from you

      Tu quoque.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @02:51AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @02:51AM (#1009000)

        Is this a China vs. Russia robit flame war?

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday June 17 2020, @04:15AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 17 2020, @04:15AM (#1009024) Journal
          Why don't you figure that out for yourself?
      • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday June 17 2020, @04:14AM (16 children)

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday June 17 2020, @04:14AM (#1009023) Journal

        Why should my country be treated any different from China or Russia?

        Because you're not in China or Russia. You don't pay taxes there.

        Curb your own damn dog

        --
        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday June 17 2020, @04:32AM (12 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 17 2020, @04:32AM (#1009027) Journal
          Sorry, that's stupid. What happens in China and Russia routinely doesn't stay in China or Russia (among other countries). Examples are the Crimean invasion, COVID, and the various censorship tools developed by the major communication platforms. Again, why should my country be treated any different from China or Russia?

          And what country are you a citizen of, so that we may know what country you are allowed to criticize?
          • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday June 17 2020, @08:23AM (11 children)

            by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday June 17 2020, @08:23AM (#1009057) Journal

            You have to make at least a feeble effort to control yourselves before complaining about others.

            --
            La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday June 17 2020, @01:28PM (10 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 17 2020, @01:28PM (#1009096) Journal

              You have to make at least a feeble effort to control yourselves

              You already checked that box off for us. Recall we're quick and agile [soylentnews.org]? Democracies, especially those with careful separations of power, have built in control mechanisms.

              The precondition was always satisfied, you just choose not to recognize it. So what other flimsy excuses do you have for why I can't complain about genuine evil of the world?

              • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday June 17 2020, @06:15PM (9 children)

                by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday June 17 2020, @06:15PM (#1009228) Journal

                Everything is personal. You can be as quick as agile as you want to be. Your choice

                --
                La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday June 17 2020, @11:51PM (8 children)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 17 2020, @11:51PM (#1009339) Journal

                  Everything is personal.

                  Not a good excuse.

                  You can be as quick as agile as you want to be.

                  Sorry, but quite and agile is not a synonym for gullible. You haven't even presented a reason why this is supposed to be a good idea.

                  • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday June 18 2020, @12:22AM (7 children)

                    by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday June 18 2020, @12:22AM (#1009354) Journal

                    Not making excuses. That's your department

                    --
                    La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
                    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday June 18 2020, @06:39AM (6 children)

                      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 18 2020, @06:39AM (#1009453) Journal
                      Fortunately, I pointed out the excuses in question so you can correct your rhetoric in the future. It's interesting how shabby your reasoning has been in this thread. You're not even trying. For example, this story is alleged to be about Chinese wrongdoing that if true, would not only mean that China were hiding the deaths of tens of thousands of people, but all contributing materially to the deaths of many hundreds of thousands outside of China. When you say

                      The mere thought of an inaccurate count, or corrupt incompetence in the US or anywhere else but China is simply waved off, dismissed out of hand.

                      or conflate those alleged actions with generic "secrecy and lies", you're making excuses for China's behavior as I already explained (and which echoes a larger pattern throughout your posts elsewhere).

                      And notice how you just assert stuff, Mr. "Not making excuses"? You can't even defend yourself.

                      • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday June 18 2020, @08:05AM (5 children)

                        by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday June 18 2020, @08:05AM (#1009465) Journal

                        Harping on China will get you nowhere. It is superficial bullshit.

                        You pointed out nothing. You're only making excuses for your own self.

                        Your problems are much closer to home, in fact, they are at home, not in China

                        --
                        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
                        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday June 19 2020, @02:10AM (4 children)

                          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday June 19 2020, @02:10AM (#1009857) Journal

                          Harping on China will get you nowhere.

                          What makes you think I'm harping? If I bring up China again and again as alleged, it's because they do these things again and again. Let us keep in mind that a half century ago, this very government was one of the worst of history. It's extremely unusual in history to see a government of that level of brutality become so much more humane. I think a big part of what made that happen was the harping - the repeated, truthful nettling that embarrassed leaders and citizens alike.

                          Rather than go nowhere, I think we have the potential to see the most humane and beneficial government China has ever seen.

                          You pointed out nothing.

                          How many people have to die before it's something?

                          Your problems are much closer to home, in fact, they are at home, not in China

                          Ignore the beam in your brother's eye, because you have a little something, if you squint carefully... no the other eye...

                          • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday June 19 2020, @04:40AM (3 children)

                            by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday June 19 2020, @04:40AM (#1009894) Journal

                            *sigh* your psychosis is showing

                            --
                            La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
                            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday June 19 2020, @12:26PM (2 children)

                              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday June 19 2020, @12:26PM (#1009989) Journal
                              Awwww, run out of fallacies again?
                              • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday June 19 2020, @04:26PM (1 child)

                                by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday June 19 2020, @04:26PM (#1010092) Journal

                                No, the fallacies are all yours, you're just repeating yourself. I don't feel like following your example at the moment.

                                --
                                La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
                                • (Score: 2, Funny) by khallow on Friday June 19 2020, @05:58PM

                                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday June 19 2020, @05:58PM (#1010122) Journal
                                  Whatever. I see China is now playing a lethal game of rugby with India that has already killed dozens. That's who you've hitched your star to.
        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday June 28 2020, @03:21PM (2 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday June 28 2020, @03:21PM (#1013691) Journal
          As an aside, we now have mysterious detection [soylentnews.org] of radiation from Scandinavian countries. Not significant and who knows, maybe not from Russia, but it's an indication of what a pain in the neck it is to live next to a black box like Russia. Some dogs just don't stay on their own lawn.
          • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday June 28 2020, @06:01PM (1 child)

            by fustakrakich (6150) on Sunday June 28 2020, @06:01PM (#1013743) Journal

            Some dogs just don't stay on their own lawn.

            As the whole world is painfully aware

            Worry about your own first

            --
            La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday June 29 2020, @01:45AM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday June 29 2020, @01:45AM (#1013930) Journal

              Worry about your own first

              You've already acknowledged that box is checked.