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COVID-19 hospitalizations could mean significant out-of-pocket medical costs for many Americans:
For their study, the researchers analyzed out-of-pocket costs for pneumonia and other upper respiratory illness hospitalizations from January 2016 through August 2019 as a potential indicator of likely COVID-19 costs. The researchers found that these out-of-pocket costs were particularly high for so-called consumer-directed health plans -- which typically feature lower premiums, compared to standard plans, but higher deductibles that can be paid via tax-advantaged health savings accounts.
[...] Many big-name health insurers have voluntarily waived out-of-pocket cost sharing for COVID-19 treatment. However, employer-sponsored "self-insured" health insurance plans are not required to adhere to such waivers. Thus, tens of millions of Americans have high-deductible insurance plans that, in cases of COVID-19 hospitalization, may expose them to relatively high out-of-pocket costs.
[...] To get a sense of the likely cost burden on patients hospitalized for COVID-19, Eisenberg and colleagues examined de-identified insurance claims for 34,395 unique hospitalizations from January 2016 through August 2019. They looked at out-of-pocket costs incurred by people who had been hospitalized during the 2016-2019 study period with pneumonia, acute bronchitis, lower respiratory infections, and acute respiratory distress syndrome. (Claims data on actual COVID-19 cases were not available in the database at the time of the study.) The cases examined did not include those for people ages 65 and over, who are normally covered by Medicare. The out-of-pocket costs included deductible payments, copayments, and coinsurance payments.
The researchers found that average out-of-pocket spending for the 2016-2019 study period for these respiratory hospitalizations was $1,961 for patients with consumer-directed plans versus $1,653 for patients in traditional, usually smaller-deductible plans.
The out-of-pocket cost gap was lowest for older patients age 56 to 64, and greatest -- $2,237 vs. $1,685 -- for patients 21 and younger. The analysis was not designed to examine why the cost gap varied inversely with patient age, but one possible explanation proposed by the researchers was that, since younger patients are healthier on average, their hospitalizations may reflect more serious and thus more costly illness.
Journal Reference: Matthew D. Eisenberg, Colleen L. Barry, Cameron Schilling, Alene Kennedy-Hendricks. Financial Risk for COVID-19-like Respi- ratory Hospitalizations in Consumer-Directed Health Plans, American Journal of Preventive Medicine (2020), doi: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.amepre.2020.05.008
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @05:53PM (27 children)
Yeah, that way I can just file for bankruptcy when I need surgery (in 2017 I had spine surgery which, all told, would have cost me > USD$50,000 without insurance) or get hit by a bus [pix11.com].
Because I'm not a sociopath, I sincerely hope you don't find yourself in that situation. But if you do, remember this conversation, friend.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @06:42PM (12 children)
Or you can take those saved tens of thousands of dollars and go on a 'medical tourism' trip for a tiny fraction of the cost. And the quality tends to be comparable. Most doctors are western trained and the tourist hospitals take their care very seriously since it's a huge source of revenue and a bad incident or two can completely destroy the entire business. If you don't know what it's like you might picture backwoods shack in Tiuana where 'Doc' comes out with some bloody gloves and yells "NEXT!" In reality it's more like a resort hotel that offers medical care. The after-treatment care will also be orders of magnitudes more pleasant with, again, comparable quality.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @06:51PM (4 children)
I'd rather work towards a single-payer healthcare system like *civilized* countries have.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @10:32PM
It's not mutually exclusive. Idiot.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @07:09AM (2 children)
The problem you face with single payer is what's happening in the UK and many other nations at the moment. In times past these countries were mostly very healthy (relative to the US) and full of a population that was largely productively employed and also mostly pretty ideologically homogeneous. In these sort of the situations social programs can work really well. You have great resources both now and the foreseeable future, people willing to work for the common cause, and costs are not especially high. But as the countries become more diverse and more unhealthy they begin to resemble the US more and more.
And now they're facing the same problems we've had for decades. You have large chunks of the population that are not productively employed and never will be, substantial social divides turning various groups against one another, and an aging/fattening/sickening population who cost more and more to keep alive each year. There is also the issue of plummeting fertility which means you have fewer and fewer people working for the next generation. Solving this through immigration is a nonstarter since in contemporary times we're increasingly just attracting poor immigrants who are themselves going to end up being a burden on the overall system (in spite of an overall economic net gain through growing consumption) while also furthering those social divides.
In modern times single payer is increasingly resulting in massive waiting lists, overworked doctors, and a reduced quality of care. And even these systems are not especially sustainable. Seriously, just take your cash and go to Thailand, Malaysia, or any of the many countries that offer high quality medical tourism. Even India is starting to see a burgeoning and very high quality medical tourism industry.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @02:14PM
The problem in the UK is the UK Gov (both Labour and Tory) trying to gradually sell off the NHS to cronies to enrich a few. Or cripple it to make more excuses to sell it.
They have not been increasing the spending: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29 [ons.gov.uk]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @02:16PM
And yet there is plenty of resources to ensure the top 1% own 50% of everything in this country. The 99% will just have to scrimp and save over the remaining peanuts.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @07:31PM
Not anymore. Comprehensive population imprisonment plans mean you can't take a plane and leave the country anymore. You can't even go across the Canadian border anymore due to a bilateral agreement. Unless you want to become an essential truck driver.
(Score: 3, Touché) by c0lo on Wednesday June 17 2020, @01:45AM (4 children)
Righto, take your respirator and oxygen tank keeping you alive while covided, and go on 'medical tourism'.
Any other great ideas?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @01:47AM
The correct treatment is HDIV vitamin c and hbot. Both already cheap and safe.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @03:42AM
Yeah, how do I turn the sonar off? Also, WTF is the distance in blindsight mode?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @07:15AM (1 child)
You go on medical tourism for serious and extremely costly one-off treatment like spinal surgery. The cost of treatment for COVID in the US, dumb as it is, is less than you'd pay on travel costs alone.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday June 17 2020, @08:28AM
Breaking: travel costs skyrocket in US [time.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @04:15PM
And then you are that 1 in X whose care is messed up. Good luck getting liability reimbursement for that! :)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @07:04PM (13 children)
You should have way more than $50k saved from not giving it away to scammers by the time you are an adult.
And the correct thing to do is get sensible insurance with very low premium but high deductible for whatever you can't cover. Eg, if you have $100k saved for health issues then you want insurance with $100k deductible and like $100/yr premium.
Healthcare is just like education. It used to be cheap and valuable but its been turned into something insanely expensive and nearly worthless. And people want to keep doing the thing that caused it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @07:19PM (1 child)
I know a nickel isn't worth a dime anymore, but it took me until ~26 to have $50k saved.
Super! Where can I find such insurance? I haven't found conditions like those before, either because state insurance commissions prohibit them, or more likely because insurance companies choose not to run that business. Because after all, in the US health insurance is not really insurance, but a membership in a discount club that makes the blood test cost $50 copay instead of $3000.
Couldn't have turned into anything else when business interests, politics and not having a choice came together.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @07:35PM
> I know a nickel isn't worth a dime anymore, but it took me until ~26 to have $50k saved.
How much did your parents squander to the insurance company in your name?
> Super! Where can I find such insurance? I haven't found conditions like those before, either because state insurance commissions prohibit them, or more likely because insurance companies choose not to run that business.
Yep, no real health insurance is available. Only scams. You will have to try to negotiate an individualized contract with some organization that has deep pockets.
> Couldn't have turned into anything else when business interests, politics and not having a choice came together.
Apparently this is what professors are saying these days:
https://twitter.com/jason_howerton/status/1272925884018819072 [twitter.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @07:36PM (9 children)
Yeah! because employer-provided health insurance is immediately convertible to cash on demand, right?
Not only that, whatever proportion of that *instant* cash covers me as a child is immediately invested *in my name* so I can use it in the future.
Most Americans (as I did for most of my life) get their health insurance through their (or their parents') employer. While I never went to my boss and said, "insurance is such a scam. Pay me the cash instead and I'll worry about my own health," I'm pretty sure of the response I'd get after he or she stopped *laughing*.
You're a disingenuous prick. Fuck off.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @07:45PM (1 child)
No one is forcing you to get your health insurance through your employer. Just say you have your own insurance so you dont need it. It really isnt difficult. Not sure why anyone would want their health linked to their job either. It is just a scheme to avoid taxes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @04:21PM
Yes. The employer gains a benefit from offering it, which is one of the reasons they do offer it. You also gain a benefit in that the money used to pay the premium is not taxed. It is, "a large-scale systematic plan or arrangement for attaining some particular object or putting a particular idea into effect," so yes it is a scheme by the dictionary definition although not in the pejorative or devious sense you seem to apply to it.
Either your way or by insurance you roll the dice. Pay some now against future need or save some now and hope your future needs don't exhaust your funds. For me your plan would also have left me bankrupt or dead several years ago. (You don't do "medical tourism" when having an emergent coronary event, do you???)
It doesn't mean you don't have an idea with any merit. But it remains that one does have to stay lucky to profit by it. Me, I'd rather bet on being unlucky and not needing it.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday June 16 2020, @09:06PM (6 children)
There's no point in engaging that A/C. He's an anti-vaxxer and a flat earther, so pointing out how everyone in the world except America has found a way of providing proper healthcare to the populace without "co-pays" and "deductibles" is wasting your time.
Just the statement:
shows what a fool he is.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @09:54PM (5 children)
No point to hearing unfamiliar info and learning? You just want an echo chamber?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @10:13PM (4 children)
It's not about that at all. There's nothing to learn from lies and bullshit, except that we can now identify those spouting it.
And the ridiculous garbage being spouted above, from under the bridge, is just that.
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @10:19PM (3 children)
Keep giving your money away to insurance companies then... It is only yourself and your family you are hurting.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @11:44PM (2 children)
Thanks for your fake concern for me and my family. I'll take that in the spirit it was offered.
And I'll trust my judgement over yours every day of the week, and twice on Sundays.
Because you've made it obvious that I'm much smarter, better read and more articulate than you.
I'm also not espousing ridiculous-on-its-face bullshit.
But please, go ahead and do whatever you want. I'm sure it will lead you to a sorry end, but it will be one of your own making.
I'm sorry that it sucks to be you. No. That's not true. I don't care one whit about you.
Toodles!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @11:49PM (1 child)
> But please, go ahead and do whatever you want.
So you dont want to force me to pay scammy insurance companies? Great, I want everyone to make their own decisions too.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @04:25PM
That AC doesn't. I do.
Tell you what... You keep buying mandatory insurance until you have enough saved up that I can be assured you will never be a financial burden to my taxes. Let's say $3,000,000. OK. $1,000,000 even in a decent interest-bearing account that you cannot touch for any reason except medical expense. Then I think you don't have to buy insurance anymore. Fair?
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @03:44AM
Millennials are such pussies. In my day, we had $100k saved by 2nd grade, and we knew better than to blow it all on iPhones and doodads.