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posted by martyb on Saturday June 20 2020, @09:56PM   Printer-friendly
from the orc-lives-matter dept.

D&D Looks To Cut Down On Racial Differences Going Forward

Races and classes have been the central aspects of character creation since the beginning of Dungeons & Dragons – well, not quite the beginning, since Elf used to be a class in original D&D. However, based on a twitter thread by D&D's Jeremy Crawford, it looks like Wizards of the Coast will be moving toward less drastic racial mechanics, especially in regard to races traditionally considered "monster races."

Crawford pointed out the differences between the orcs found in Volo's Guide to Monsters and those found in the Exandria and Eberron settings, saying that the latter reflects the direction that the D&D team is headed in regard to monsters. The Exandria and Eberron orcs lack the -2 penalty to Intelligence and the required evil alignment. This reflects the fact that in these settings orcs are mostly considered another type of people – with all the varieties in personality and temperament that come with that – rather than fodder for player characters to fight.

[...] It is worth noting that this comes on the heels of a Twitter discussion on the racist history of orcs, initially spawned by a screenshot of the description of orcs in Volo's Guide to Monsters. Tolkien initially portrayed orcs as caricatures of Mongolians, and orcs have been racial stereotypes of other races over and over (see World of Warcraft or Bright). Dungeons & Dragons is not immune to this – even outside of the orc issue, races like the Vistani appear as Romani stereotypes.

Diversity and Dungeons & Dragons

Throughout the 50-year history of D&D, some of the peoples in the game—orcs and drow being two of the prime examples—have been characterized as monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world ethnic groups have been and continue to be denigrated. That's just not right, and it's not something we believe in. Despite our conscious efforts to the contrary, we have allowed some of those old descriptions to reappear in the game. We recognize that to live our values, we have to do an even better job in handling these issues. If we make mistakes, our priority is to make things right.

See also: Dungeons & Dragons Designers Clarify How Gnolls Differ From Other D&D Creatures

Related: Gender and Appearance Stereotypes Travel to World of Warcraft


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  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by RandomFactor on Saturday June 20 2020, @10:39PM (7 children)

    by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Saturday June 20 2020, @10:39PM (#1010491) Journal

    Meh. The race mechanic was just a playing shorthand, a convenience. Like Anime character tropes. So you could spend more time playing and less time figuring out who/what you were dealing with. You see a pack of orcs, you can sort of skip forward rather than asking them if they are on the way to the great wizard's library in Elfendale across the mountains.

    What's next? Red dragons that hate Gems and Gold? Mermen that hang out in volcanoes? Evil Unicorns that.... (Oh wait, D3/Whimseydale, been there done that, got the wings)

    I don't recall ever confusing (or even associating) any of the game races with any real-life human phenotypes or hearing it done by others. It was just never a thing.

    I guess the new normal if you see a pack of humanoids approaching, the DMs will just tell you what they are wearing "Dresses(Casters), Metal Armor (Melee types), etc. and you'll do things based on that.

    Or more people will just not bother upgrading. I haven't updated my books since AD&D came out anyway.

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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Common Joe on Sunday June 21 2020, @01:58AM

    by Common Joe (33) <{common.joe.0101} {at} {gmail.com}> on Sunday June 21 2020, @01:58AM (#1010543) Journal

    The race mechanic was just a playing shorthand, a convenience. Like Anime character tropes. So you could spend more time playing and less time figuring out who/what you were dealing with...

    I don't recall ever confusing (or even associating) any of the game races with any real-life human phenotypes or hearing it done by others. It was just never a thing.

    Playing in a mixed black/white crowd, this was also my gaming experience. Sometimes, we just wanted to slay bad guys. Other times, we were more nuanced.

    I think one of the benefits to having races or classes like orcs, elves, Klingons, or Romulans is that you can either use the groups for an us-vs-them battle or they can be used to explore the us-vs-them hatred that festers in our community today. In either case, the idea of us-vs-them is central.

    And for each of the races I mention in my last paragraph, there have been many stories that have turned the "that race is bad" stereotype on its head. Lord of the Rings (from which came up with the idea of the orc) is a pretty good example. The elves, dwarves, humans, and hobbits weren't very friendly to one another. And yet, they came together for a common goal, learned about each other, and forged closed bonds in the process. Of course, since there are epic battles, an us-vs-them scenario must exist, so some group had to be the bad guy. Better for it to be some fictional group than something real. Let it be orcs. (Even the article states that Tolkien, who invented the orcs, never meant for it represent any real race. He purposely wanted something fictional.) But now Orcs are racists because some side book of DnD said orcs have a lower IQ?

    Discworld is a great counter balance to this: One of the most racist guys possible winds up successfully leading a police force that contains the most diverse set of employees (dwarves including one who is human sized, werewolves who have to deal with their "monthly cycle", trolls, zombies, golems, "igors", gargoyles, and loyal idiots who struggle in the modern world) and in the process finds out that maybe the other races aren't so bad. The separate races / classes of people often (but not always) have certain attributes and experiences that the other races / classes don't possess. This mirrored real life very well: athletes and nerds are very similar to each other except when they're not. Dogs and cats are similar to one another except when they're not. Men and women are very similar to one another except when they're not. People from one country are similar to people of another country except when they're not.

    But the point is, as soon as there is more than just one bad guy, an us-vs-them scenario is inevitable. But an us-vs-them scenario doesn't make a game (or movie or book) automatically racists. And yet, that seems to be the argument people are utilizing.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Pino P on Sunday June 21 2020, @04:11AM (1 child)

    by Pino P (4721) on Sunday June 21 2020, @04:11AM (#1010571) Journal

    Mermen that hang out in volcanoes?

    A group of merpeople who live around a sporadically active volcanic island, I'm guessing. Some occasionally have to leave their homes in the river delta and trek up near the vent to take measurements. It's not easy to move about on land with a tail that amounts to a pair of fused legs, let alone climb a mountain. But eventually they figured out how to alternate moving one hand and the fluke forward with pushing the pelvis forward, leaving the other hand free to carry things.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by RandomFactor on Sunday June 21 2020, @03:32PM

      by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Sunday June 21 2020, @03:32PM (#1010671) Journal

      In the midst of their observations of the volcano, the merfolk stumble upon the murky lair of Cerisia, an adolescent red dragon. It is, strangely, a giant pile of ash and charred plant matter, rather than gold and gems, the dragon resides upon. Her red skin has enough soot coverage that she will likely be initially mistaken as an acid breathing aquatically capable black dragon by the party (which would make more sense in the island environment.)
       
      Cerisia has forsaken the sturdy glitter and glam type possessions usually sought by her kind and instead seeks beauty in nature - e.g. flowers, butterflies and trees.
       
      The dragon is engaged in study of ways to interact with nature that don't involve lighting it aflame, but is routinely disappointed as her body heat and breath routinely destroy any greenery, flowers and critters in her vicinity. Her activities in the volcano cause periodic instability and result in it threatening the Mermen's nearby underwater cities.
       
      As a hatchling Cerisia played with a traveling wizard for some years who cast farsight for her allowing her to virtually enjoy the beautiful gardens and parks of a nearby kingdom, which she fell in love with, and eventually visited and unwittingly destroyed some decades later. Destroying what she had always loved caused her deep long-lasting psychological trauma, as well as a spate of toasted hors d'heroes for a few years thereafter. If the players are able to discern the dragon's desire and enable it in some fashion (she may generate a related quest) she will react favorably and possibly even leave the volcano or stop her investigations thereby sparing the merfolk.

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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by edIII on Sunday June 21 2020, @07:18AM (2 children)

    by edIII (791) on Sunday June 21 2020, @07:18AM (#1010603)

    I don't recall ever confusing (or even associating) any of the game races with any real-life human phenotypes or hearing it done by others. It was just never a thing.

    No. It wasn't. The whole point of D&D was to escape reality to a different reality that was explicitly fantasy. You got to role play, which is literally to act out the fantasy according to their role. We call these people actors, and nobody confuses the actors in a play with their characters in real life, nor do they assume the hypothetical reality is real. It's like the disclaimer in videos that nothing in the video has any relation to a real person, blah, blah, blah.

    From the beginning, at it's foundation, the organized need to apply the bullshit, labels, containers, grievances, and demands that one group be catered to, are illogical and inane. It's a fucking game. Nobody reasonable thinks that orcs represent any parallel to the real world and that the orc/half-orc-human dynamic represents the systemic racism and class warfare present in the contempoarya..adf..ga.43 jeesu fucking christ right? Again, a fucking game. The orcs are inherently evil fuckers that like burning down our corn crops. Kill them for XP, lols, and honor. Go :)

    This is a quasi-Anthropomorphizing behavior, that always comes back to the primary question. Back to first principles. Does a person have the ability to distinguish between the game, the role playing, and the real world? That goes back to the 80's with arcade games. Same arguments by people that love to control what people can do and enjoy.

    We played D&D to get away from the judgment and bullshit of the real world, and to role play as wizards, half-orcs, and beserk crazed barbarians. It had no relation to real life whatsoever.

    The idea that a race of people with free will and the capacity to make decisions are naturally inclined toward evil or low intelligence is central to real-world racism, and it is a good sign that Wizards of the Coast is adding more nuance to D&D races

    This bullshit right here. Real-world racism has no place in our fantasy worlds. Likewise, real world bullshit like getting butt-hurt over prejudice towards the orc has no place in any decision making regarding the game. We can create worlds where an explicit evil (like Melkor level demi-god evil) can give birth to a race that is inherently evil. It's understood why, because that is part of the whole backstory. We have origin stories for the races.

    What's next? Not all Mindflayers are pyscopathic assholes, and they need more range and nuance? Like a trans-Mindflayer bar owner that obsesses over the feelings of others, cries frequently, and strongly identifies as a gay Wood Elf. Fuck no. We like to role play, not play out something patently ridiculous. Only way that could possibly be true is if some god-like level Enchanter got mad and decided to make the Mindflayer an example. You need a reallllly strong back story for that demand for nuance to counteract the origin story of the Mindflayer. Evil beyond time and space and all that shit. It literally makes no sense to have Mindflayers exist in the entire range of human sensitivities and behavior.

    How orcs are treated in this game has no relation to real life whatsoever, except for the need for some people to use it a social vehicle. I support social progress and treating people better, but it's fucking insane to start controlling how we can role play, and what kind of role playing is more correct than others.

    We should be careful before we start judging each other's role playing and fantasy worlds, because those are explicitly all equal as a form of art.

    Fucking Art Nazis, man.

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    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 21 2020, @03:05PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 21 2020, @03:05PM (#1010659)

      The Left wants you to forever roleplay their fantasy game.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @02:50AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @02:50AM (#1010913)

      Drizzt was a Drow that went good and his story is ridiculously popular.

      "Even more worrying than individual racial stereotypes is the use of biological determinalism – the idea that orcs are naturally “savage” and even when “domesticated” lack the capacity to care that other races do. The idea that a race of people with free will and the capacity to make decisions are naturally inclined toward evil or low intelligence is central to real-world racism, and it is a good sign that Wizards of the Coast is adding more nuance to D&D races."

      I see that as nothing more than expanding the possibilities of the D&D universe. You can still craft stories with evil Orcs and Gnolls, but players can create characters that aren't inhibited by the stereotypical roles of any given race.

      "How orcs are treated in this game has no relation to real life whatsoever"

      That is not really true, every imaginative act is done by a real person, every set of game rules imparts a concept of how the world does/should/might work. Races set in stone as evil are an affront to the concept of free will and imagination.

      Hopefully WotC will work in mechanics like "as an Orc choose your path/deity" and you get modifiers based on which path you choose. That way they can keep the -2 int along with some strength or whatever modifier.

      We all take comfort in our traditions, and for gamers/geeks/nerds the traditions are rooted in the games/comics/books we grew up with. Change is uncomfortable and scary, that is normal; but don't let the fear grip you so tightly you lash out in anger without just cause.

      D&D is a game built on imagination, and DMs frequently alter the standard rule set. This is a whopping big nothing burger, but it comes after a massive shift in cultural priorities which understandably makes a lot of sheltered people uncomfortable.

  • (Score: 2) by Mykl on Monday June 22 2020, @04:43AM

    by Mykl (1112) on Monday June 22 2020, @04:43AM (#1010969)

    Let's face it - combat is a big part of roleplaying. As fun as it is to play diplomat and work out peaceful resolutions to the challenges thrown up by the DM, sometimes we all want to just run in with a sword and roll natural 20's.

    Races that are inherently evil help the game by removing the need for Paladins, good Clerics etc to moralize about the motivations of their opponents etc. If we took the current trend to the logical extreme, all combat in D&D would eventually be considered wrongthink and we'd all end up playing My Little Pony RPGtm.

    Fortunately, the group that I'm DMing at the moment is playing the Pathfinder Campaign "Hell's Rebels [paizo.com]" - fighting against the church of Asmodeus, a few serial killers and a whole lot of Devils. I hope that we can all agree that those beings born of the essence of the Nine Hells can still be evil, right?