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D&D Looks To Cut Down On Racial Differences Going Forward
Races and classes have been the central aspects of character creation since the beginning of Dungeons & Dragons – well, not quite the beginning, since Elf used to be a class in original D&D. However, based on a twitter thread by D&D's Jeremy Crawford, it looks like Wizards of the Coast will be moving toward less drastic racial mechanics, especially in regard to races traditionally considered "monster races."
Crawford pointed out the differences between the orcs found in Volo's Guide to Monsters and those found in the Exandria and Eberron settings, saying that the latter reflects the direction that the D&D team is headed in regard to monsters. The Exandria and Eberron orcs lack the -2 penalty to Intelligence and the required evil alignment. This reflects the fact that in these settings orcs are mostly considered another type of people – with all the varieties in personality and temperament that come with that – rather than fodder for player characters to fight.
[...] It is worth noting that this comes on the heels of a Twitter discussion on the racist history of orcs, initially spawned by a screenshot of the description of orcs in Volo's Guide to Monsters. Tolkien initially portrayed orcs as caricatures of Mongolians, and orcs have been racial stereotypes of other races over and over (see World of Warcraft or Bright). Dungeons & Dragons is not immune to this – even outside of the orc issue, races like the Vistani appear as Romani stereotypes.
Diversity and Dungeons & Dragons
Throughout the 50-year history of D&D, some of the peoples in the game—orcs and drow being two of the prime examples—have been characterized as monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world ethnic groups have been and continue to be denigrated. That's just not right, and it's not something we believe in. Despite our conscious efforts to the contrary, we have allowed some of those old descriptions to reappear in the game. We recognize that to live our values, we have to do an even better job in handling these issues. If we make mistakes, our priority is to make things right.
See also: Dungeons & Dragons Designers Clarify How Gnolls Differ From Other D&D Creatures
Related: Gender and Appearance Stereotypes Travel to World of Warcraft
(Score: 2) by vux984 on Sunday June 21 2020, @01:00AM (6 children)
First most everything you wrote was correct... except
"Elves had to be twisted into Orcs before they were proper servants for evil"
Have you not read the Silmarillion. Tolkien's elves were NOT the innately 'lawful good' entities that made it into D&D. They were frequently selfish, jealous, murderous bastards. :)
And for what it's worth i have no issue with racial distinctions being removed from D&D. Very little is 'innately evil'. And players can do what they want, always have and always will. If someone want's to play a gentle orc raised by monks... who am i to say they can't?
(Score: 4, Informative) by Arik on Sunday June 21 2020, @01:59AM (2 children)
I wasn't saying they were. "Lawful Good" is a D&Dism, but I wasn't referencing it.
Elves are not necessarily always good in the way we would prefer to use the term, and some of them can be downright nasty individuals. But as a race, they're the firstborn of Ilúvatar, they're tied to the essence of /Tolkien/'s idea of Good. They're still individuals, but they are of a higher order. They're more like angels than humans, and of course we have legends of evil angels as well, but if you just ask 'are angels good' most would answer 'yes.'
"Have you not read the Silmarillion."
It only took me a moment to find it again.
On the origin of the Orcs, from the Silmarillon; "[...]all those of the Quendi who came into the hands of Melkor, ere Utumno was broken, were put there in prison, and by slow arts of cruelty were corrupted and enslaved; and thus did Melkor breed the hideous race of the Orcs in envy and mockery of the Elves, of whom they were afterwards the bitterest foes."
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by vux984 on Sunday June 21 2020, @10:08PM (1 child)
I wasn't disputing the origin of Orcs. I was pointing at the Silmarillion as a source of tales about of Elves who were not "good"; and not isolated individuals who fell from grace. It was more nuanced -- Feanor and his clan declared war on Melkor ("evil") and the Valar ("good") at the same time.
I'm not sure I entirely agree. I definitely partially agree. I think they're closest to some sort of Tolkien sense of clean and pure and light, but not necessarily "good"; although good is associated with that. I think Babylon 5 played on the same idea with the Vorlons vs the Shadows; the Vorlon's were also associated with light and order (and even 'angels')... but they weren't necessarily, in the final anlsysis "good". I think Tolkien's are the same.
That's kind of murky; and really depends on what your definitions are; one might argue that 'angles' are by definition 'good' -- and 'fallen' angles become demons or devils. Ie... an "evil angel" loses it's angelic status, and isn't an "angel" anymore. Satan of course is some time's considered an angel... and sometimes not... for example.
Whereas I'd argue that Elves, as portrayed in the Silmarillion do not cease to be Elves, no matter how evil their actions.
But yes, the notion of angels who aren't good is also a thing that has been played with in film and literature. Walken's Gabriel in the Prophecy; is very much in the spirit of Feanor.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Sunday June 21 2020, @10:59PM
Clearly within the broader category I would say. Just as Melkor does not cease to be a Vala when he rebels, Satan is often referred to as an Angel, albeit one who has "fallen."
"the Vorlons vs the Shadows"
Ok, I don't remember Tolkien ever going very far down that road but I can see the resemblance.
This may be in part influence from the ancient folk tales he was familiar with, in which the deities certainly don't tend to fit neatly into our modern preconceptions of good and evil. The sun gives life, but in a drought it takes it away. The annual flooding of the Nile makes the crops grow - but if it floods too much it can wash them all away. This sort of reality undergirds most of ancient mythology.
"Whereas I'd argue that Elves, as portrayed in the Silmarillion do not cease to be Elves, no matter how evil their actions."
Except for the singular example of the Orcs, which we were discussing.
Of course in that case, it was not merely a result of a bad individual taking evil actions, but a result of Melkor (the closest Tolkien equivalent to Satan himself) capturing them and altering them over a long period of time.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 21 2020, @02:04AM (1 child)
And how about making Westerns where everyone hates guns and instead settle their differences through group therapy?
Look, it's genre role-playing. A genre has assumptions and expectations built in because they let the participant "get into" the game quicker. Frankly, it's also familiar so the audience knows it will be something they will probably like. All genres are built on this.
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 21 2020, @04:07PM
Familiar is quick, and popular with the majority, but the familiar world also promoted racial stereotypes, regardless of whether people were conscious of it or not. Today, it's pretty unanimously agreed upon that JRR Tolkien was vehemently xenophobic, and a racist. He was also one of the most popular and influential writers of the 20th century, so his legacy has been taken and reinterpreted in myriad ways. I don't think there's anything wrong with WoC recognizing that aspects of the lore are problematic and taking steps to make their world more complex than good white guys (and/or token black elf) that kill the uncivilized colored monsters who usually stole something or want to steal something, or just because they're over there, too close to our women.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @05:43PM
It'll know kung fu and kick ass. The monks in D&D aren't Catholic monastic tradition pacifists ...