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posted by Fnord666 on Monday June 22 2020, @08:41AM   Printer-friendly
from the masks-are-optional dept.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/21/pinal-county-sheriff-mark-lamb-positive-covid-19-enforce-mask/3232821001/

During a Saturday phone interview with The Arizona Republic of the USA TODAY Network, Sheriff Mark Lamb said the White House called him on June 13 and asked that he be present when Trump signed an executive order that would hold law enforcement to a higher standard when they used force.

Lamb said he flew into Washington Monday evening and visited the White House Tuesday when he tested positive for COVID-19. He later visited an infirmary and was tested a second time, which also came back positive.

"I was surprised," Lamb said regarding the positive test result. "I mean, if I looked back, I would say that I was a little rundown from, you know, a long weekend. But I didn't have any symptoms."

[...] Lamb said he likely contracted COVID-19 at a campaign event he held on June 13, He initially planned for it to be a "come pick up a yard sign" event, but more people showed up than anticipated.

[...] However, Lamb said he didn't wear a mask or practice social distancing at the campaign event and estimated that the majority of the 200 people who attended the event in San Tan Valley, Arizona, weren't wearing masks either.

He intends to self-quarantine throughout the end of the month.

When asked if he planned to hold more public events once his self-isolation was complete, Lamb said he probably wouldn't and that he's not trying to put people at risk. That said, Lamb will likely continue to not wear a mask when out in public.

"When I come back out, I don't like to wear masks," Lamb said. "And I respect people's personal choices to not wear a mask."


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  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @01:50PM (25 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @01:50PM (#1011084)

    We were all told in February/March to "STOP WEARING MASKS!!" and that they didn't work/only sick people needed them. This was loudly proclaimed by the media at the time.

    So what is the advice now? Do masks actually work? What's next, will HCQ work as well? Where are we we supposed to be getting advice from? The CDC? FDA? WHO? The White House? Local and state officials? The NYT? Can anyone give a definitive answer here? For today, tomorrow, 6 months time?

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  • (Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @01:56PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @01:56PM (#1011087)

    People more important than you need the masks. You shouldn't wear them so people better than you don't face a shortage.

    There is your translation. (more seriously - it's been admitted that the 'no mask' guidance's purpose was to preserve masks for healthcare workers directly exposed, as we're even more screwed if they're all sick)

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @08:50PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @08:50PM (#1011241)

      it's been admitted that the 'no mask' guidance's purpose was to preserve masks for healthcare workers directly exposed

      Except, it (the "no mask" guidance) did not even achieve that. The part that was left out is the "magic stamp of approval" applied to the masks.

      The masks that everyone whom the "guidance" was aimed at could get their hands upon are "dust masks". They have the "magic stamp of approval" for use in dusty conditions. And they very often also have one other item, an exhale valve.

      The medical field masks are different masks. They have the "magic stamp of approval" for use in medical/infectious conditions. And they all lack one item from the other side, they all lack an exhale valve. In fact, the "magic stamp of approval" paperwork for being "medical approved" requires no exhale valve in a medical grade mask.

      So reality is, there are two fully independent supply lines. One independent supply line supplies masks with the magic "medical grade" stamp, and those also lack exhale valves.

      The other, independent, supply line supplies "dust masks", they often have an exhale valve (almost always in reality) and they are not approved for use in a medical facility. These masks are the ones that anyone who's name is not "General Hospital, Inc." can get.

      So, telling the public "don't wear a mask" did nothing to help the medical supply lines, because the only masks the public had access to were the masks that were not approved for use in medical facilities. As well, people going and buying out their local Home Depot or Lowes of all their "dust masks" had not one bit of effect on the medical mask supply lines, because neither Home Depot, Lowes, or your local hardware store (if you still have one) can purchase "medical grade" masks.

      The medical supply line shortage was caused by two factors:

      Just in time inventory (the Toyota invented method of not storing any inventory in the back room, instead having what you need to consume today arrive from your supplier on the truck that arrived last night, and;

      The total shutdown of Wuhan when China put it on lockdown. Something like 95% of all the masks (medical and dust grade) are made in China, and most of those are made in the area that was locked down. Which meant no new masks were manufactured (of the medical or dust variety) for a couple months.

      So, combine Just In Time inventory control, where you keep no extra inventory around, with a halt to manufacturing of a couple months, and you see where the shortages arose from in the medical field. The shortage was caused by China not making any masks for two months, while none of the hospitals had more than a few days supply lying around, because the delivery truck brings more every few days.

      But people hoarding Home Depot or Lowes dust grade masks had zero impact upon the hospital medical grade mask supply.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 24 2020, @07:56AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 24 2020, @07:56AM (#1011897)

        Welcome to a lack of leadership for the country. Conflicting information, with the highest office in the land being frequently wrong about healthcare advice. Fauci has been a good voice, but he got too many headlines. Hope its hard for Trump to fire a guy who is all about the science.

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @02:00PM (6 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @02:00PM (#1011089)

    "STOP WEARING MASKS!!"

    You were told to STOP BUYING MASKS, but I see what you did here. This was to make sure that doctors that deal with sick people, actually had a mask. But are you really that dumb to not understand this? Or just pretending now?

    You were told that masks are not going to save you from COVID. What we now know is that people that do not feel sick, still can infect others. This is why you are not adviced to wear a mask because you could be sick and don't know it and in process infect a lot of people. Wearing that mask is to help protect others from you. Furthermore, if everyone wore a mask, then that protects you from them, in case they have disease and don't know it.

    • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Monday June 22 2020, @02:25PM (3 children)

      by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Monday June 22 2020, @02:25PM (#1011097) Journal

      To be fair a lot of news stories "simplified" it to "don't wear masks" or "don't use masks". I couldn't always determine what the original story was, but the intended advice referred to the N95 masks. That got lost in most of the reported news stories.

      --
      Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @09:06PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @09:06PM (#1011247)
        The original WHO guidance was very carefully worded to be both accurate and easy to miss-interpret at the same time. Note, I do not know if the duality of accurate and easy to miss-interpret was intentional or accidental, and I'm not addressing that possibility because I can't read minds of WHO employees to know what they were thinking.

        The WHO guidance was, in a simplified form, this:

        Your wearing of a mask does not protect you (the wearer) from becoming infected.

        Which is accurate. You (the wearer) can become infected by having virus get into your eyes (mask does not cover eyes). You can get significant quantities of virus on your hands, and then take off your mask and rub your nose and become infected. You can get significant quantities of virus on the outside of the mask, and if you are not properly careful when removing the mask, can infect yourself that way.

        The WHO seemed to be wording their guidance in the form of binary absolutes. Either a mask 100% always prevents infection, or else it never prevents infection. And since a mask can not 100% perfectly prevent infection, their guidance gave the miss-interpretation of: "it never prevents infection" side of the binary absolutes.

        Their guidance would have been better worded something like this:

        Wearing a mask reduces your risk of becoming infected by a small amount.

        Wearing a mask reduces your risk of infecting others by a large amount.

        But I suspect that, given most folks inability to analyze and/or measure risk, that many would have not understood those statements at all, or everyone woud have been been wanting to know "by how much", both of which might be why the WHO tried to go for the binary absolute wording instead.

        Additionally, the WHO seemed stuck on "mask does not protect wearer" viewpoint, totally ignoring the "mask protects others from wearer" viewpoint for a very long time. I don't know why they were so tightly attached to only ranking mask usefulness against the "protects the wearer" measure for so long.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @01:37AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @01:37AM (#1011374)

          Additionally, the WHO seemed stuck on "mask does not protect wearer" viewpoint, totally ignoring the "mask protects others from wearer" viewpoint for a very long time. I don't know why they were so tightly attached to only ranking mask usefulness against the "protects the wearer" measure for so long.

          Because the sort of people who end up as high level bureaucrats in organizations like WHO are callous egocentric bastards. If it does not protect them personally, they would see no value in wearing them.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @03:10AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @03:10AM (#1011411)

            You might just be right about that.

    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by c0lo on Monday June 22 2020, @04:12PM

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday June 22 2020, @04:12PM (#1011139) Journal

      Furthermore, if everyone wore a mask...

      ...zillions paid for facial recognition software will be useless.
      Do you want those who promised results to lose their job? (because, yes, I do)

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday June 24 2020, @10:36AM

      by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Wednesday June 24 2020, @10:36AM (#1011916) Homepage
      >> "STOP WEARING MASKS!!"

      > You were told to STOP BUYING MASKS, but I see what you did here.

      I see what you did here - you deliberately removed the "They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus" bit.
      --
      Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
  • (Score: -1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @02:10PM (6 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @02:10PM (#1011092)

    You're supposed to be like good sheep and do what the people with money want you to do.

    The media are much more consistent than the doctors. Every doctor has their own opinion, but the media will never push HCQ because Trump mentioned it, and the ultimate goal is to remove Trump. Their horse is Remdesvir. Note that as its inutility to help outcomes became known, they transitioned to silence on it.

    My state is somewhat unrestricted now, and I still hear "public service" ads On the radio with celebrities saying "stay home save lives", "be a superhero wear a mask", "be decent don't hoard" - unpleasant and anachronistic reminders that a few weeks ago unelected health nazis were pulling on our nose rings.

    "7 days to flatten the curve", remember? Disbanding society was more "necessary" than wearing masks.

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @06:54PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @06:54PM (#1011202)

      Yeeesh, that is some real 169 IQ right there.

    • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @08:44PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @08:44PM (#1011240)

      The media are much more consistent than the doctors. Every doctor has their own opinion, but the media will never push HCQ because Trump mentioned it, and the ultimate goal is to remove Trump. Their horse is Remdesvir. Note that as its inutility to help outcomes became known, they transitioned to silence on it.

      Wow. Is that Kool Aid tasty or what?

      The Trump Administration [fda.gov] says that Hydroxycloroquine is ineffecitve:

      June 15, 2020 Update: Based on ongoing analysis and emerging scientific data, FDA has revoked the emergency use authorization (EUA) to use hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to treat COVID-19 in certain hospitalized patients when a clinical trial is unavailable or participation is not feasible. We made this determination based on recent results from a large, randomized clinical trial in hospitalized patients that found these medicines showed no benefit for decreasing the likelihood of death or speeding recovery.

      While Remdesevir does not *cure* COVID-19, it has been shown to reduce the length and severity of COVID-19 symptoms:

      Remdesivir was superior to placebo in shortening the time to recovery in adults hospitalized with Covid-19 and evidence of lower respiratory tract infection. (Funded by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and others; ACTT-1 ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT04280705 [clinicaltrials.gov].)

      But that's bullshit of course, because those people over at The Trump Administration [clinicaltrials.gov] are Marxist shills, funded by George Soros and provided hookers and blow by Jeff Bezos, right??

      Thanks for your informed opinion. It's good to know who we can trust. Moron.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @12:20AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @12:20AM (#1011328)

        > It's good to know who we can trust.

        The anonymous voice on the internet. It's like the invisible hand of the free market - it's always right.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @12:57AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @12:57AM (#1011356)

          > It's good to know who we can trust.

          The anonymous voice on the internet. It's like the invisible hand of the free market - it's always right.

          Thank you other AC. You just made my day!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @01:29AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @01:29AM (#1011368)

        Wow. Is that Kool Aid tasty or what?
        The Trump Administration [fda.gov] says that Hydroxycloroquine is ineffecitve:

        Exactly what I was saying. It is a badge of honor for your thought controllers that in the partisan media battle, using Remdesvir and Hydroxychloroquine as idols, you assume somebody criticizing Team Remdesvir automatically means they are a cheerleader for Team Hydroxychloroquine.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @06:44AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @06:44AM (#1011452)

          Exactly what I was saying. It is a badge of honor for your thought controllers that in the partisan media battle, using Remdesvir and Hydroxychloroquine as idols, you assume somebody criticizing Team Remdesvir automatically means they are a cheerleader for Team Hydroxychloroquine.

          Wow. I have no idea where you got that idea.

          I responded to:

          The media are much more consistent than the doctors. Every doctor has their own opinion, but the media will never push HCQ because Trump mentioned it, and the ultimate goal is to remove Trump. Their horse is Remdesvir. Note that as its inutility to help outcomes became known, they transitioned to silence on it.

          I even helpfully quoted it in my reply.

          I imagined that the quotes/links plus the snark would get my point across, but apparently it wasn't direct enough

          The Trump Administration is *not* pushing HCQ. Nor is it trying to trash remdesevir. In fact, the FDA [fda.gov] (that is, the Trump administration) has revoked approval for use of HCQ for COVID-19 and The NIAID [nih.gov] (part of the executive branch, you know the Trump administration?) funded research on the effectiveness of Remdesevir [clinicaltrials.gov] and found that it reduces the duration and severity of COVID-19 symptoms.

          You're making this out to be some sort perverse competition. The science is what matters.

          Besides, the Trump administration is saying exactly the same thing as the media about both HCQ and Remdesevir.

          As such, the comment that I quoted is factually incorrect. Which makes its claims false. *That* was my point.

          It's bullshit on its face and whoever wrote it should be ashamed to be trying to cynically exploit this disaster to "earn" political points. Remdesevir isn't a "D" type drug, and HCQ isn't an "R" type drug.

          One has some efficacy in treating symptoms and one does not. Trying to make some sort of political issue out of a particular drug is moronic. As is hyping any drug *before* we know if it's effective.

          This is your only feeding. Make the most of it.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Snospar on Monday June 22 2020, @02:16PM (1 child)

    by Snospar (5366) Subscriber Badge on Monday June 22 2020, @02:16PM (#1011093)

    Here in Europe we're entering "hay fever" season and you'll see a lot more people sneezing and coughing. If they happen to have COVID19 but are not displaying any symptoms then it's a good idea to keep those coughs and sneezes (and associated droplets) contained in a mask. No, it won't block the virus but it does reduce spread. If you see someone sneeze in the fresh produce aisle and they have no mask and don't even bother to cover their mouth then go and shop elsewhere.

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    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @03:30PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @03:30PM (#1011126)

      Don't remind me. I've been thankful for the mask, as it reduces my allergies significantly. - someone at a similar latitude

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 22 2020, @02:30PM (2 children)

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday June 22 2020, @02:30PM (#1011099)

    This was loudly proclaimed by the media at the time.

    Something you learn to be an unchanging constant of the universe... "Experts" and especially "authorities" revise their public message of "the truth" all the time.

    The public message of "the truth" is so far removed from actual simple truth that it's remarkable it ever settles down at all. It is a message designed to shape behavior, to make sure that "the important people" get what they need at the time, and occasionally to protect the masses with "for their own good" messaging that will get them to do the least damage to the most people.

    --
    🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by cmdrklarg on Monday June 22 2020, @04:26PM (1 child)

      by cmdrklarg (5048) Subscriber Badge on Monday June 22 2020, @04:26PM (#1011144)

      It is a GOOD thing that experts and authorities change direction at times, when backed by facts and evidence. Government policy backed by science is a GOOD thing. Policy backed by wishful thinking and ideology is not.

      The only "constant" of the universe is that Things Change (AKA entropy). There is no "truth", just facts and evidence.

      --
      The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @12:23AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @12:23AM (#1011330)

        > There is no "truth", just facts and evidence.

        Along with their anti-particles, fake facts and false evidence.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @07:47PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 22 2020, @07:47PM (#1011215)

    First the one you missed: Using good hygiene, especially hand washing whenever you can / it makes sense to, is the very best thing you can always be doing.

    Yes. Masks really work lower overall infection rates.

    No, the already established risks to administering hydroxychloroquinine and quinine (2% of those taking end up having heart dysrhythmias) do not justify the potential benefit to using it for COVID.

    No, using Remdesivir does not seem to be effective from a cost sense (does not save extra lives, may reduce symptomatic period as is expected for an antiviral).

    Steroids, especially dexamethasone, may have good and immediate benefit to symptomatic patients needing respiratory relief. (As is already known generally, but it does appear to work well specifically for SARS-CoV-2).

    If you take politics out of it, and why anyone would want to pay attention to Donald Trump on this escapes me, you will generally get the best picture by listening to the professional medical community. Then take responsibility for both your own health and that of those around you who will be influenced by your actions. That's what healthcare really expects, by the way.... the medical people will take responsibility to do the best we can for you and offer prescriptions and therapy which will help, but you are the first one responsible for the health of you and your community. You are also expected to inform yourself, and to keep current, because healthcare does and is expected to keep trying to find new and better ways of care.

    Any other questions?

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @01:24PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @01:24PM (#1011541)

    The parent poster is right, Dr. Faucci admitted that the CDC lied about the efficacy of the masks early on in order to allow them to grab the supply that was available for hospitals and first responders. Yes, they should have been higher priority, but lying to the people has had the effect of convincing large numbers of people that the masks aren't a big deal.

    That and the health care communities insistence that it's OK to protest, despite it being a massive opportunity for a particularly hard hit community to get infected, pretty much ensures that there's nobody to trust for accurate information.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @03:55PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @03:55PM (#1011601)

      Pure speculation, but I'm guessing Fauci said cloth masks wouldn't prevent infection very well and that was taken ad "madks don't work" with everyone ignoring the 2nd part of masks drastically reducing transmission.

      The CDC and WHO aren't perfect, but most of the whinging I've seen is due to bad science reporting or ignorant fools who don't understand context and nuance.