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posted by martyb on Monday June 22 2020, @10:00PM   Printer-friendly
from the ill-wind? dept.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/19/tech/north-face-facebook-ads/index.html:

Outdoor apparel brand The North Face has become the best-known company yet to commit to an advertising boycott of Facebook in light of the social media platform's handling of misinformation and hate speech — a move that could open the door for other brands to do the same.

The brand's decision responds to a pressure campaign by top civil rights groups, including the NAACP and the Anti-Defamation League, known as #StopHateForProfit, which on Wednesday began calling for advertisers to suspend their marketing on Facebook in the month of July.

"We're in," The North Face tweeted. "We're out @Facebook #StopHateForProfit."

Hours later, outdoor equipment retailer REI said it will join the boycott.

[...] The activists demanding change face an enormously ambitious task. Facebook is the second-largest player in US digital marketing after Google, and last year generated $69.7 billion from advertising worldwide.


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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @12:51AM (14 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @12:51AM (#1011354)

    Hanging the noose in Bubba's garage was an act of intimidation, not unlike burning a cross on someone's property. Those are the tactics used by the KKK from an era when lynching was common and segregation was the norm in many parts of the country.

    I get it, you're not using the rebel flag as a symbol of slavery, hate, or racism. It means something different to you. I get that. I get that for many, it's a symbol that indicates being proud of their southern heritage. Those people do not intend to support racism or hate.

    The problem is the same rebel flag was used as a symbol of the second version of the KKK, people who burned crosses and lynched black people. The same rebel flag was used by the Dixiecrats in their quest to support segregation. While you may not intend the rebel flag as a symbol that supports any of those evils, many people use it for exactly that purpose.

    Black people aren't dictating that the rebel flag is a symbol of hate. Racists, people who burned crosses, lynched black people, and supported segregation where the people who decided to use the rebel flag a symbol of hatred. I get that the rebel flag doesn't mean those things to you at all. But if you're a black person and you see a white person flying a rebel flag, how can you know if they simply mean the flag as a symbol of "FUCK YOU" or if that person hates you because of your race?

    The rebel flag may not be a symbol of hatred to you. I absolutely understand that. But I hope you'll understand why the rebel flag is so offensive to many other people and why it's a symbol of intimidation toward black people.

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  • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @02:17AM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @02:17AM (#1011394)

    I don't care about how black people see anything. Or what they feel about anything. Not anymore. I used to, but not anymore. Leftists either. Or even the useless right. I'm tired of the whole damn mess.

    I'll start to care again once the statues that have been torn down are put back up. Maybe. I hope I'll still retain the capacity.

    Yes, this is not a calm reaction, nor is it a deliberative assessment of the matter. Many of us have been doing that for decades, and it hasn't helped a damn thing. So now, it's just fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. That's all anyone's ever said to me, and now I'm throwing it right back in all your damn faces. Fuck you fuck you fuck you.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @02:25AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @02:25AM (#1011396)

      Fucking racist. I say we burn his battle flag!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @02:53AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @02:53AM (#1011407)

      The irony is that for someone who doesn't care how what anyone else thinks or how they feel, you sure want us to care what you think and how you feel.

      I have no problem listening to the concerns of black people. I also have no problem listening to people who see the rebel flag as a symbol of southern pride but don't associate it with bigotry. However, I see little value in hearing the views of people who have no interest in also listening to others.

      I disagree with the AC who called you a racist. That's totally uncalled for. You are, however, being extremely selfish.

    • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday June 23 2020, @09:35PM

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Tuesday June 23 2020, @09:35PM (#1011725) Journal

      So now, it's just fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. That's all anyone's ever said to me, and now I'm throwing it right back in all your damn faces. Fuck you fuck you fuck you.

      Yep, those are DEFINITELY the words of somebody who doesn't care...

      Triggered much?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 24 2020, @08:11AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 24 2020, @08:11AM (#1011900)

      Many statues have fallen through the ages because they are always in public areas and they represent a certain portion of history. Confederate statues may have more meaning than simply Racism and Slavery as the core values, but putting them on public display is inappropriate. Museums are where you store history.

      "I don't care about how black people see anything . . | . . Leftists either."
      [[[...|...]]]
      "I'll start to care again once the statues that have been torn down are put back up. Maybe."

      Statues that represent racial oppression. No, those are inappropriate for public squares unless educating about the inhumane values the statue represented. Genocide is not celebrated.

      PS: sorry your family doesn't like you, bigotry has social costs by definition

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by khallow on Tuesday June 23 2020, @03:47AM (8 children)

    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday June 23 2020, @03:47AM (#1011422) Journal

    Hanging the noose in Bubba's garage was an act of intimidation, not unlike burning a cross on someone's property.

    So what? At least, it didn't ruin anyone's lawn and just means that there's one unhappy person out there rather than two or three. And whether it was an act of intimidation depends on who did it and why.

    I get it, you're not using the rebel flag as a symbol of slavery, hate, or racism. It means something different to you. I get that. I get that for many, it's a symbol that indicates being proud of their southern heritage. Those people do not intend to support racism or hate.

    The problem is the same rebel flag was used as a symbol of the second version of the KKK, people who burned crosses and lynched black people. The same rebel flag was used by the Dixiecrats in their quest to support segregation. While you may not intend the rebel flag as a symbol that supports any of those evils, many people use it for exactly that purpose.

    And we should care why? When the symbol matters more than that what it gets used for, indicates to me that there's something deeply wrong with the complaint.

    Black people aren't dictating that the rebel flag is a symbol of hate.

    Sounds to me like you are.

    • (Score: 2) by http on Tuesday June 23 2020, @08:10AM (1 child)

      by http (1920) on Tuesday June 23 2020, @08:10AM (#1011468)

      I want to kill you. I may yet find a way, and an alibi. While buzzfuckface may disdain me, I've promised martyb cash, so sooner or later I'll get the log files. Quietly.

      .

      .

      See how good it feels to be on the receiving end of a threat?

      .

      .

      Fun fact: some threats cannot be treated as posturing. For an object lesson, try standing a foot in front of a cop (facing), growling, and lifting your hand as fast as you can towards their hat.

      Oh, and if you can't predict the outcome of the exercise, no loss for the rest of us.

      --
      I browse at -1 when I have mod points. It's unsettling.
      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 23 2020, @01:16PM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday June 23 2020, @01:16PM (#1011538) Journal

        See how good it feels to be on the receiving end of a threat?

        So what? Point is placing a noose while nobody is looking is a very easy thing to do - it's a few minutes of work and a rope. And we don't know the motive. It could be a joke in bad taste. Even Wallace or some associate who could reasonably expect to benefit from Wallace's increased media exposure could have done it. It's a far cry from actually hanging a man.

        Another example of this is mailing white powder. It's been twenty years since the anthrax biological attacks and yet we still have lots [businessknowhow.com] of drama every time someone mails flour in the mail.

        Reminiscent of the Anthrax letters mailed in 2001, the FBI is investigating 50 letters containing suspicious white powder that were mailed to Chase bank branches across the country. So far, the white powder has tested negative for dangerous toxins. The letters' threatening text has not been released by the FBI.

        Suspicious white powder in envelops have also recently been mailed to the New York Times and the New York office of the Reuters news organization. Senator John McCain and Senator Barack Obama's campaign offices have also received letters containing suspicious white powder. Since 2001 the U.S. Postal Inspection Service has responded to nearly 3,000 incidents, most of them involving white powder.

        It's too easy to trigger a heavy-handed response to a trivial threat. Make a noose, mail some flour, call 911 with a bogus report, call in a bomb threat, etc.

    • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Tuesday June 23 2020, @10:36AM (5 children)

      by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday June 23 2020, @10:36AM (#1011499) Homepage Journal

      "When I use a word," said Humpty Dumpty, "it means exactly what I intend it to."

      But when you use a word, or a symbol, or a flag, outside of its well-known meaning, you risk being misunderstood.

      -- hendrik

      • (Score: 1, Troll) by khallow on Tuesday June 23 2020, @01:24PM (4 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday June 23 2020, @01:24PM (#1011542) Journal

        But when you use a word, or a symbol, or a flag, outside of its well-known meaning, you risk being misunderstood.

        Keep in mind that the "well-known meaning" is a attempt to define the Confederate flag in a certain way. A lot of words and symbols have multiple meanings and even when they don't, people often will misinterpret stuff for irrational reasons. Just because your symbol is misunderstood doesn't mean it's your responsibility to do anything about it. And the most common way to protect or change the "well-known meaning" of a symbol is to use it the way you want it to be recognized.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @02:45PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @02:45PM (#1011581)

          I dunno, man. Shouldn't it be the duty of any person who wants the rebel flag to mean Southern Pride to punch racists and attempt to improve the image of their own symbol? I'm sure Antifa would love the backup.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @06:02PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @06:02PM (#1011669)

            There is no duty to commit crimes against alleged racists.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @09:13PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 23 2020, @09:13PM (#1011715)

          The rebel flag was used both by the KKK and the Dixiecrats, both of whom were quite racist. Given the history of the flag, how would it be irrational to view the rebel flag as a symbol of racism?

          Although it's true that a noose could be displayed in some settings as a joke, it's also true that nooses were used to lynch black people. Given the current context of racial issues, how would it be irrational to interpret a noose as an intimidation tactic?

          Please clarify your positions because they don't appear to make a lot of sense.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday June 24 2020, @12:50AM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 24 2020, @12:50AM (#1011778) Journal

            The rebel flag was used both by the KKK and the Dixiecrats, both of whom were quite racist. Given the history of the flag, how would it be irrational to view the rebel flag as a symbol of racism?

            Hammers were used by Vikings to kill people and were a religious symbol of Thor, one of their numerous Gods of war. So should we view hammers as symbols of Viking oppression? Just because someone in the past used a symbol in a particular way doesn't mean that we should forever after associate that symbol with those people. That even includes things like the Swastika.

            Here, the KKK and the Dixiecrats haven't been a serious thing in 50 years.