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NY partygoers get subpoenas after stonewalling COVID-19 contact tracers:
Test, isolate, trace, quarantine: these are the bedrock public health measures proven effective at stamping out an infectious disease before it flares to the point where the only option left is to foist draconian lockdowns on whole populations.
[...] On Wednesday, officials in Rockland County—just north of New York City—reported a cluster of cases linked to a recent party of up to 100 people largely in their early 20s. At the time of the party, the host was infected and had symptoms but held the party anyway.
So far, at least eight attendees have tested positive for the virus. But many partygoers have refused to work with public health officials to track the potential spread and notify others who may have been infected and could go on to spread the disease further.
"We are not receiving the necessary cooperation when we contact those who are positive for COVID-19 or those who have been at some of these gatherings," Dr. Patricia Schnabel Ruppert, Rockland County's health commissioner said at a press briefing Wednesday.
She explained:
My staff has been told that a person does not wish to, or have to, speak to my disease investigators. They hang up. They deny being at the party even though we have found their name from another party attendee or a parent provides us with the information. Many do not answer their cell phones and do not call back. Sometimes parents answer for their adult children and promise that they have been home consistently when they have not been.
This must stop.
In response, Ruppert announced that the county will issue subpoenas to anyone who refuses to cooperate with contact tracing. So far, the county is processing eight subpoenas. In addition, those who do not comply will face civil fines of around $2,000 every day they are out of compliance.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @10:42AM (69 children)
Your "rest of the world" is also seeing spikes and local outbreaks due to reopening early. You have the same idiot majority, but possibly more able leadership, and way less suspicion of all things government. Most other countries also don't have 50 country-sized states, a completely dysfunctional federal government, and a federal executive that constantly undermines state executives and health authorities.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Opportunist on Monday July 06 2020, @11:05AM (68 children)
Mostly you have more cooperation. And testing, most of the new cases have been discovered early due to increased testing, which in turn means that you can far quicker ensure that the infection cannot spread further because it makes a HEAP of a difference whether you find out someone is infected after 2 days or only when he develops symptoms after 2 weeks.
I don't allow the "50 country-sized states" argument to stand because the EU has even less control over what the member states do than your federal government does. The key element here is cooperation. People who understand that this is a problem and that they have to work together to combat it. It simply is a matter of putting the common good over "muh freedumz".
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @11:35AM (31 children)
As an American, I don't imagine the EU to be at all similar to the US - they still have very much separate countries, cultures, languages, and governments. A good bunch of them still have feudal lords, even if they are largely symbolic!
In American public school, I was taught that my own government is the greatest danger to my life and liberty, and that it's my responsibility as an American to be vigilant and ready to take up arms against that government. How did you learn to think about yours?
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Dr Spin on Monday July 06 2020, @12:10PM (4 children)
We think the purpose of government is as a way to organise and manage things that happen at a country wide scale which has the
general approval of all.
We also think that the process for doing this is not very good, but no one has thought of a better one. If they do, we will probably adopt it.
It helps to have a figurehead whose predecessors had a discussion that went:
King: I am King. God made me king. I will do as I please
People: You are king because we consent. We might withdraw our consent if you continue with this foolishness.
K: I am King. God made me king. I will do as I please
P: "Off with his head" (Head rolls)
or
Queen: "What is that god-awful racket outside"
Advisor: "The people are hungry and crying out for bread"
Q: "Let them eat cake"
People: "Off with their heads" (Large number of heads roll)
Having a "leader" that understands that issuing executive orders may lead to the immediate death of themselves,
their entire family, and all their friends, and other random other people is clearly an excellent idea.
As someone once wrote "fear of death concentrates the mind wonderfully"
However, having a leader incapable of "understanding" probably defeats the entire strategy at base 1.
YMMV
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 2, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Monday July 06 2020, @05:40PM
Having a "leader" that understands that issuing executive orders may lead to the immediate death of themselves,
their entire family, and all their friends, and other random other people is clearly an excellent idea.
The Sword of Damocles. It's up to us to keep it in proper working order.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Monday July 06 2020, @11:43PM (1 child)
But Americans are so vigilant and ready to take up arms against that government.
They never actually have, except for that time when some of them wanted to continue to own people like they were livestock, but other than that they won't.
They do boast an awful lot about how they're just about going to though.
I'm sure their ruling class are just terrified.
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Wednesday July 08 2020, @09:53AM
The US citizens will never rise against their government. Never. Because their government knows one thing that has been true for times immemorial: Keep your population fed and entertained, and they will not rise up against you. Panem et circenses worked in Roman times and it has worked ever since. When you take a look at the history of revolutions, you'll notice that the only ones that were successful were either led by the ruling classes or were fought by people with their back against the wall whose options were basically to die in a revolution war or to die without putting up a fight.
In the end, though, all those revolutions led to were a difference in who gets to call the shots. They didn't change jack shit for the subjects.
(Score: 1) by Opportunist on Tuesday July 07 2020, @12:43PM
Who said that, Stalin?
(Score: 1) by Opportunist on Monday July 06 2020, @12:26PM
Our "political education" pretty much deals with the mechanics of democracy and how various forms of government work, but it does not qualify them in any way, neither as a force to be followed without questioning or a danger to liberty if it becomes overbearing. There's a general "nudge" to democracy being the best system available because it means that you get a say in matters rather than just being subject to some sort of ruler, but aside of that there's not much in terms of "coloring".
I guess it has less to do with education and more with how our governments are generally perceived. Yes, we do complain and lament about them as much as anyone, but at the core we do expect them (and so far at least with good reason) that when push comes to shove (like now) that they get their shit together and do what's necessary, and keep the cronyism at bay 'til the danger is averted and we're back to business as usual.
Oddly, that seems to work. No idea why, but it does.
(Score: 5, Informative) by epitaxial on Monday July 06 2020, @12:34PM (12 children)
Yeah they never taught that in school. The more you talk the worse you sound.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @12:40PM (11 children)
Really? You didn't study the constitution every year, and discuss it in depth, and what it means?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @12:49PM (10 children)
That's what you remember from studying the constitution?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @01:01PM (9 children)
That's what was drilled into me by all history teachers. Why did the colonies revolt, why the articles of confederation failed, the reasoning behind every clause of the constitution and the bill of rights - those were the questions we dealt with every year in US history. I was very much taught that blind nationalism is a bad thing and that we must all strive for democracy to work, and that it was our duty to grab the ammo box if the soap box stopped working.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @01:01PM (2 children)
* ballot box not soap
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @02:23PM (1 child)
Why that correction? Isn't it ballot box < soap box < ammo box ?
I.e. if you don't like the choices on your voting ballot, try to form your own movement before resorting to revolt? Or has your education successfully convinced you to never even try to take part in democratic society? Because you're right in the rest of your statement, blind nationalism is a bad thing and everyone must strive to make democracy work. That's why I'm surprised everyone is so eager to discard the "soap box" option, and play the
Trumpnationalist card instead.(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @02:26PM
If we were picking up the guns, you would know. I'm not a Trump supporter either, I'm a member of the fucking SEP!
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @01:17PM (2 children)
Let me guess: You were educated in the south.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Monday July 06 2020, @01:28PM
I was taught this in the West as well. Maybe it's only in the large urban centers that they did not teach the core principals of the American system.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @01:35PM
Northern Midwest.
(Score: 2) by epitaxial on Monday July 06 2020, @05:19PM (2 children)
I think you are confusing school with Rush Limbaugh.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @05:53PM (1 child)
I think you're a kneejerking jackass, but it's cool. That's literally what I and many others were told in school. I don't see anything wrong with that, but I was mainly attempting to demonstrate the level of distrust of government inoculated into Americans from a young age. Where did you go to school, and what did they tell you?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @11:36PM
I was most certainly taught the same as you were. I think far too many people were mind-numbed into becoming part of the Collective (herd?).
The only real reason to distrust government is: it's made of PEOPLE. People are imperfect. And, most importantly, try really hard (those of you who are mind-numbed) to think about the motivations of people who wish to be in power.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @03:30PM (3 children)
And that is why we have to close public schools and abolish the Dept of Education. Am I saying the right thing?
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @03:45PM
No. That's true anti-fascism. The power is in the people's hands, and it's staying there.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @06:35PM (1 child)
yes. the dept of ed and "public schools" are run by cultural marxists brainwashing kids against their own people. shut that shit down and make parents do their fucking job. When they can barely get by, maybe they'll do their goddamn duty as citizens and force political change.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @09:15PM
They are not "our people", it is you and a polished white turd in your pocket. Nice try, Vladimir!
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @09:14PM (3 children)
American exceptionalism, where Americans think they are exempted from things like knowledge and education. Of course you don't imagine, being an American! You probably cannot identify Europe on a map! You are a crippled monoglot, and you only speak one language, and that one badly! You have no self-awareness, no idea how parochial, xenophobic, and idiophallic your world view is! You president is a representative sample of American idiocy. Point taken.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @09:22PM (2 children)
No, their systems are not similar at all, except in that there's nominal democracy. I would love to see an America with real social services and good governance. I don't want to see us disarmed under a totalitarian police state.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Monday July 06 2020, @11:55PM (1 child)
I see you've never been to Europe. Also, don't believe what the Murdoch media tells you about the EU, its all lies.
You've had more than 200 years to get that project under way. It's not going to happen, is it?
Why would that have to be the only other option?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 07 2020, @01:03AM
You mean there is no democracy, or it's less nominal than ours?
I don't think America will survive in anything more than name, if that. The next hundred years will make us or break us as a species anyway though, so I'm not too concerned. WWIII or Space Race II - maybe both at once.
The only reason Aristarchus or his equally annoying AC clone took issue with what I posted above is they saw "take up arms" and assumed I'm some militia methhead or boomer blowhard. I was just stating what they told me in school two decades ago.
(Score: 2) by dry on Tuesday July 07 2020, @04:47AM (2 children)
When I went to school, I was also taught the American government was the greatest danger to my life and liberty. Even had example such as the Vietnam war, the war on drugs and how America gave its people a choice between Coke and Pepsi and called it freedom.
(Score: 1) by Opportunist on Tuesday July 07 2020, @08:36AM (1 child)
US politics is actually a lot like the choice between Coke and Pepsi...
(Score: 2) by dry on Tuesday July 07 2020, @02:10PM
Exactly, and back then 7UP was basically illegal.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday July 07 2020, @07:12AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 4, Interesting) by driverless on Monday July 06 2020, @11:50AM (30 children)
And if you don't want to take the EU, take the United States of Australia, which is also a bunch of federated states in which each one can pretty much do whatever it damn well pleases. Main difference is that they have leadership at the national level. Granted he's an asshole, but at least he's an asshole who's managing the pandemic well.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @12:41PM (25 children)
Doing a lockdown with no reason to, nor any explainable benefit from (can you keep bunkering down in fear of that "second wave" for a decade?). How and for whom it has done good?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Monday July 06 2020, @02:59PM (24 children)
1. Doing a lockdown based on the models of possible outcomes early in March
2. admitting those are models and adjusting the length and severity of the lockdowns as we progressed in the pandemic
3. even applying harder lockdown on smaller areas [vic.gov.au] due to clusters caused by various reasons [theguardian.com]
Things like that, yeah.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @05:02PM (23 children)
What are the "we"? Weren't you being an European some posts ago?
Anyway, WHAT is the positive side of "applying harder lockdown" now when the very fact of "clusters caused by various reasons" NOW demonstrates that the lockdown game can NOT do anything useful? Except kill the economy dead, that is.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Opportunist on Monday July 06 2020, @05:42PM (4 children)
Yeah, fuck the people, save the economy!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @09:47PM (3 children)
You can survive without the economy? Go ahead with your photosynthesis then, but we the squishy humans do need to eat to remain alive.
If instead the case is the username mirrors your source of income, do consider that a shrunken economy is also less money to spend on lowly propaganda mooks.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Opportunist on Monday July 06 2020, @10:24PM (2 children)
I can survive without the economy. Because, guess what, there will be some economy as long as there are people.
On the other hand, when I'm dead, I can't give half a shit about the economy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @10:49PM (1 child)
Bold words, but will you survive, say, a mugging? Desperate people kill for any paltry thing.
Your error is, you equate "some economy" with "civilized economy". There are many places on this world, that have convincingly proven otherwise to their denizens.
(Score: 1) by Opportunist on Tuesday July 07 2020, @08:29AM
Your error is, you equate your shithole of a country that shits on its people and doesn't leave them anything to lose (which history taught us over here is a BAD thing, once in 1789 and again in 1917) with sensible countries that made sure that people don't have to get desperate just because the economy takes a downturn.
Yes, I'm fairly sure I won't get mugged.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Monday July 06 2020, @10:17PM (15 children)
Former east-european, immigrant down-under, currently living in Melbourne.
You're an idiot. Queensland, South Australia, Tasmania, Northern Territory are free of covid because of the previous lockdowns and are currently opened.
New South Wales is opened as well, with new daily cases varying around 10.
Would have been the same in Victoria, if not for some idiots [soylentnews.org].
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @10:38PM (12 children)
Let's hope the story won't get even more complicated in a month or two. *wink*
Meanwhile in the East Europe, Latvia is practically free of same despite no lockdowns, and is currently a month into reducing the distancing; therefore, the mantle of an idiot firmly stays with you. Wear it with pride!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Monday July 06 2020, @10:45PM (2 children)
Never changed since 2004.
If Latvia managed to do it, explain why can't US do the same?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @10:51PM
Isn't it the $3,000,000,000,000 question?
(Score: 4, Informative) by RS3 on Tuesday July 07 2020, @12:19AM
"Why can't the US do the same." Part of the problem is that we're freer than maybe most of the rest of the world realizes. We love the words "freedom" and "independence". Our country was founded in Independence Hall in Philadelphia. (Too many) Americans have very free spirit, "I'll do it my way" attitudes that often defy wisdom, intelligence, and greater public opinion and good, just to flaunt their freedom and independence. A good thing taken too far sometimes.
And, as others here have pointed out, many simply don't trust the government. So bash the US government all you want, but remember: far too many Americans aren't going to obey. I personally know people who think the whole thing is either made up, or some kind of exaggeration to control people. Ridiculous of course.
And how can the government know what to do when they don't know what's going on because of a lack of testing? Blame government, I know, but realize: criminals sold bogus tests to the government.
You'll rightfully want citation and I neglected to bookmark a recent article chronicling COVID in the US, but basically it started way back in December and January when there were only a few cases identified on the West Coast. But people generally can't keep in mind many simultaneous dynamic situations. At that time there were thousands of infected but asymptomatic people flying in from China. Even when there were travel restrictions, quarantine and "stay at home" orders, the infected people flew in and interacted without masks. So the disease spread like wildfire. Hopefully most here understand the concept of exponential growth. As we've all heard ad nauseam, testing lagged, and even now we're not sure about testing because IT'S POSSIBLE TO BE INFECTED BUT TEST NEGATIVE.
Not defending the mass idiocy, but one of many things I've observed for years: people in Eastern Asia, Japan especially, often wear surgical masks in public, going about their daily business. I've always seen it as a sign of higher social consciousness and just plain hygiene. I can not and am not speaking for America in general, but perhaps (subconsciously?) Americans generally thing of mask-wearing as culturally different? And/or a fashion statement?
A week ago I and a couple of other people helped someone move. You know, box up stuff, carry boxes, load in truck, etc. The someone moving turned out to be a doctor who happened to be from India. We moving helpers wore masks, but he (the doctor) did not, nor did his female Chinese roommate (who I believe was also a doctor). I did not ask why he didn't wear a mask, but I assumed he knew what he was doing- that he's probably getting tested and contact traced a lot. But he could have been infected and not know it.
(Score: 3, Informative) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Tuesday July 07 2020, @12:14AM (8 children)
Uhmmm - no. [corona.help]
Latvias' population is about two million.
Sweden tried avoiding lockdowns and achieved a truly appalling death rate [corona.help] (population about 10 million), worse than the US (but Trump is working to fix that).
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 3, Informative) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Tuesday July 07 2020, @12:23AM (4 children)
Actually, the "despite no lockdowns" part was also not correct. [wikipedia.org]
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday July 07 2020, @07:25AM (3 children)
No lockdowns. Urging people to stay at home and be responsible and socially distance when they do go out to the shops, and bars and restaurants - some of whom have remained open the whole time - is *not* in any way shape of form "lockdown".
Latvia's been pretty much identical to the fellow Baltic Bubble member Estonia where I live, and I've been to a pub or restaurant *every single day* since January.
I repeat - no lockdowns, please stop talking out of your arse.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Tuesday July 07 2020, @12:09PM (2 children)
Sounds damned close to our lockdown. Although food and drink are only take away.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday July 07 2020, @12:48PM
Handy hint if you can't work it out - no doors were forced to remain closed.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday July 07 2020, @12:54PM
You call the above "a lockdown".
Yet earlier (but lower) in the thread you say "Sweden had no lockdown."
Yet the Latvian and Swedish responses were almost identical, almost all sectors of society were treated in exactly the same way (Latvia was even looser for some subsets), mostly just a few arbitrary numbers that don't pertain to locked-down-or-not-ness were different.
Make your mind up - is having the business open and freedom of movement preserved "a lockdown" or "no lockdown"?
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday July 07 2020, @07:40AM (2 children)
And what's the fuck has Sweden got to do with Latvia? Take step back and look at your (failure at maintaining a coherent) argument:
A: Latvia's practically free from it
B: Sweden has loads of cases
?!?!??
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Tuesday July 07 2020, @12:12PM (1 child)
Sweden had no lockdown.
And better than the US is a REALLY low bar.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday July 07 2020, @12:45PM
The whole point of me repeating was because your mentioning Sweden is utterly *irrelevant* in a discussion about Latvia.
And you do it again!
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Tuesday July 07 2020, @12:01AM (1 child)
Vic/NSW border closing to keep NSW safe. As a Victorian I can only praise Andrews, Berejiklian and Morrison for doing so.
I've just said something good about three politicians (let alone one) - really never thought I'd do that.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Tuesday July 07 2020, @12:44AM
Heh, I have a higher bar for "deserving praise", this is common** sense.
** something that the Americans seem to lack. Likely too individualists [soylentnews.org] to have something in common.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday July 07 2020, @12:01AM (1 child)
c0lo has always been an Aussie.
The country right next door to him completely locked down for a month. We now have exactly no community spread of Covid-19 and are living our lives in a more-or-less normal matter because we locked down hard that one time.
Go on, tell me again how terrible that has been for everyone and how our "rights" have been taken away.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 07 2020, @12:21AM
I'm super-impressed. Maybe if Americans spent less time bashing their own government and more time working together it would have been different.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @01:43PM (3 children)
Wow .... I guess you get what you deserve if you think he's managing anything well. He can't even manage his dick well or his makeup.
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/24/883154244/trump-administration-moving-to-close-federally-funded-covid-testing-sites [npr.org]
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06 2020, @02:31PM (2 children)
GP was talking about the PM of Australia. Last I checked, he wasn't called Trump [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday July 06 2020, @03:01PM
Oh God, thanks for that!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday July 07 2020, @12:06AM
It's Gaz isn't it?
(Score: 3, Flamebait) by Phoenix666 on Monday July 06 2020, @01:37PM (4 children)
If you think that "putting the common good over 'muh freedumz'" is the guiding principal of European civilization, then you could only have gotten an F- in history. "muh freedumz" is a specific reaction to European history and an attempt to correct the dysfunctional, murderous tendencies of your "glorious" civilization.
I am fond of Europe, but it, too, is populated by imperfect humans who are no more sophisticated than others elsewhere.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Opportunist on Monday July 06 2020, @10:22PM (3 children)
Then I guess our quality is that we apparently are capable of learning from the mistakes of our past and not repeat them instead of celebrating them.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday July 07 2020, @07:47AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 3, Touché) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday July 07 2020, @11:45AM (1 child)
Ugh. Please. The conceit from many Europeans that they're all smart and everybody else is stupid, especially Americans, is so tedious and so easily disproved. How many world wars were started in Europe in the 20th century? Not one, you say, but two? Yup, sure seems like Europeans are so much better at learning from their mistakes than others.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Wednesday July 08 2020, @08:16PM
WW2 was the continuation of WW1 after a 20 years ceasefire. Clemenceau wanted to render Germany harmless and unable to ever pose a threat to France again, that idea sure as hell backfired badly. But hey, we learned from that mistake, too, and the new idea was that the Germans got their economy so deeply entangled with the French that any attempt to go to war with them would be essentially economic suicide and, guess what, that worked like a charm (that was the kernel of what later became the EU, and take a wild guess who the two "master" of the EU are...).
So yes, Europe does learn from history. We learned that war ain't getting us anywhere, but if we throw our economy together we can again rule the world.