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posted by martyb on Monday July 13 2020, @10:50PM   Printer-friendly

The SARS-CoV-2 / COVID-19 pandemic has been with us for over six months. A recent check of https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ reveals just over 13 million cases, with over a half million deaths, and 4.9 million of which are listed as active. On a positive note, 7.6 million are listed as recovered.

Unfortunately, recovered does not necessarily mean being back to the same shape someone was in pre-infection (see below).

Statistically, there are bound to be some Soylentils who have been infected (or had friends or family members who were).

I'd like to offer an opportunity for us to pull together and share our collective experiences. If you've made it through, telling others of how it went can be helpful both for the one who shares, and also for those who were recently diagnosed. Fears, doubts, and worries act to drain energy better directed to recovery.

NB: Please be mindful that "the internet never forgets". I encourage all who respond to make use of posting anonymously.

With that caution, what has been your experience? How long between time of infection and onset of symptoms? How bad was it? How are things now? What do you know now that you wish you knew earlier? What did you hear about earlier but didn't realize they meant that?

Penultimately, I realize words are inadequate, but I sincerely wish and hope that all can be spared from this malady, and those who have been afflicted may have a speedy and full recovery.

Unfortunately, it looks like that may not be as likely as we would all hope and wish for...

Ars Technica has results of an analysis of COVID-19 victims' recovery. Be aware it was from a relatively small sample of patients who had been infected and then deemed to be recovered. Two months after infection, COVID-19 symptoms persist:

As the COVID-19 pandemic continues unabated in many countries, an ever-growing group of people is being shifted from the "infected" to the "recovered" category. But are they truly recovered? A lot of anecdotal reports have indicated that many of those with severe infections are experiencing a difficult recovery, with lingering symptoms, some of which remain debilitating. Now, there's a small study out of Italy in which a group of infected people was tracked for an average of 60 days after their infection was discovered. And the study confirms that symptoms remain long after there's no detectable virus.

[...] Roughly 60 days later, the researchers followed up with an assessment of these patients. Two months after there was no detectable virus, only 13 percent of the study group was free of any COVID-19 symptoms. By contrast, a bit over half still had at least three symptoms typical of the disease.

The most common symptom was fatigue, followed by difficulty breathing, joint pain, and chest pain. Over 10 percent were still coughing, and similar numbers hadn't seen their sense of smell return. A large range of other symptoms were also present.

Journal Reference:
Angelo Carfì, Roberto Bernabei, Francesco Landi. Persistent Symptoms in Patients After Acute COVID-19 [open], JAMA (DOI: 10.1001/jama.2020.12603)


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  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 14 2020, @01:35AM (12 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 14 2020, @01:35AM (#1020905)

    The nice thing about the placebo effect is that even if you know it's a placebo it can still help you. I think that's all you're getting out of that stuff, and I don't feel the least bit guilty about calling it out because I can't damage your placebo effect.

    It's hard enough to stick with what's known by consensus to be beneficial: staying active and eating a healthy diet. I use a few of the same spices you listed too--because I like the way they taste, not because I think they're particularly medicinal. I don't take supplements though. I think they're a huge waste of money unless you have a specifically diagnosed nutritional deficiency.

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 14 2020, @02:44AM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 14 2020, @02:44AM (#1020963)

    There's been some indication that vitamin D might help, but it's best to get it outside. The work was preliminary and pretty much based on the observation that where people were getting the sickest and who was getting the sickest had some degree of correlation with which people had more or less vitamin D. The young, those with lighter skin and those closer to the equator would likely have more vitamin-D whereas the elderly were less likely to get out, those with darker skin would get less exposure for any amount of sunlight and same goes for those further south of the equator at the time.

    As far as I know, that's still preliminary and there's still legitimate questions as to whether there's something real to that or if it's just a correlation without any particular underlying cause. At any rate, if you can get outside you probably should, just as long as you can stay far enough from other people that you don't up your exposure.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 14 2020, @02:57AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 14 2020, @02:57AM (#1020986)

      I thought it was only safe to budget for 8 hrs of outside time per week. The rest should be spent isolated.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 14 2020, @04:11AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 14 2020, @04:11AM (#1021034)

        This is the first I've heard of an outside time budget.
        It doesn't make any sense. I could easily spend 8 hours
        outside in one day in the woods. I'm more likely to get
        a tick-borne disease than Covid (we still have to be careful
        of all the other dangers).

        It's the quality of the outside time that matters,
        not the quantity. I easily spend over 8 hours a week
        in my yard tending the garden, but nobody else
        goes back there so it might as well be a bunker
        as far as Covid is concerned.

        A protest, OTOH--I don't go to those, and at this
        point it's been run into the ground. So maybe give the
        protests a rest, or budget those with much caution, wear
        a mask, and sanitize like crazy because you're not by yourself
        in the woods there.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 14 2020, @11:40AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 14 2020, @11:40AM (#1021162)

          While you may be safe outside, on average people will end up congregating with each other more. That is why outside time should be limited.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 14 2020, @04:05AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 14 2020, @04:05AM (#1021030)

      The same thing happened with vitamin D and protective effects against several cancers.

      Folks with low D levels were doing worse than folks with normal D levels.

      But, it turned out supplements didn't have a protective effect. The current thought is that it is sun exposure is protective (don't overdo it), and vitamin D was just a marker for sun exposure.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 14 2020, @11:51AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 14 2020, @11:51AM (#1021169)

        Yes, like I said, it still needs actual research to determine whether it's a fake correlation, results from some other cause or if it's an actual real effect.

        But, that being said, few people that have been diagnosed with covid 19 have gotten it outside, there's maybe a couple percent of the total caseload at most. And as long as you wear a mask and keep to the sixish feet recommendation, the likelihood is virtually zero. Plus, it's generally important to get enough vitamin D and getting it from the sun remains the best way.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by ledow on Tuesday July 14 2020, @08:34AM (5 children)

    by ledow (5567) on Tuesday July 14 2020, @08:34AM (#1021124) Homepage

    If you have to take supplements, you're malnourished.

    Now, some people have medical conditions that lead them to such malnourishment, but it's really that simple.

    Not enough Vitamin ? Then your diet is poor or you never go outside.

    Taking some supplement might fix those *levels* but it doesn't fix the underlying problem whatsoever. That you're eating badly and don't get enough sun.

    Similarly, taking them when they're not necessary just makes them - to quote Sheldon - the ingredients of very expensive urine.

    It's like saying "Hell, I let the dog bite my legs all the time, but it's okay because I have bandages and some iodine and a rabies shot".

    Eat properly. Seriously. Just eat properly. It's the modern day, even things like cereals are fortified... just eat as you should, and you'll get more than you need of everything. And maybe go out every once in a while to get that food for yourself.

    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday July 14 2020, @01:09PM

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday July 14 2020, @01:09PM (#1021210) Journal

      Similarly, taking them when they're not necessary just makes them - to quote Sheldon - the ingredients of very expensive urine.

      Except B's and C, all the other (A, D, E, and K) bio-accumulate - no expensive piss for ye, but quite nasty troubles if you exceed the capacity of your body to deal with them.

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 14 2020, @01:53PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 14 2020, @01:53PM (#1021226)

      Not really, modern food lacks the nutrient density necessary to avoid supplementing things. There's effectively no way around taking at least a basic multivitamin as you'd have to consume a massive amount of the right foods in order to naturally fulfill all the RDAs for various vitamins.

      • (Score: 2) by ledow on Friday July 17 2020, @01:52PM

        by ledow (5567) on Friday July 17 2020, @01:52PM (#1022889) Homepage

        Just not true.

        There are many papers out there where they test schoolchildren and random members of the public en masse - no experiments, or diets or anything - just "What did you eat this week?" and "Is that covering your RDA of everything?".

        Pretty much they are OVER consuming (and it's the fats and sugars, obviously), but the "shortages" are usually only as low as 75% of RDA, and it's things like B6 (eat fish, meat, fruit, anything!) - i.e. people who don't want to eat vaguely healthily or a balanced diet at all. As an example, a boiled potato would give you 25% of your daily B6, a chicken breast over 50%, a banana 25%. The average person eats three meals a day - you telling me you can't get that.

        The other one people crow about is Vitamin D - especially if you live in a non-sunny climate. Your RDA of D can be literally covered by sunlight alone in most countries, especially in the summer months. Beyond that, a tablespoon of cod liver oil is actually 174% RDA! Half a cup of mushrooms is 46%. A cup of milk is 15%. An egg 6%. And your cereal is *deliberately* fortified with it: 10%. Are you seriously telling me that someone eating breakfast, lunch and dinner, plus snacks, every day, is not capable of getting 100% RDA without even THINKING about it?

        How do you think we survived millions of years, living in muddy forests with bugs biting us all the time fighting off infections and performing manual labour all day and living out in the open? We get what we need from having enough food. Even unprocessed, uncooked, food. Once you start processing / cooking in the modern age, things actually get a little worse, but then the sheer variety, availability, seasonality, and even fortification of food now is so humongously disproportionate to what was available even 100 years ago that it's not even a vague concern - it's way cancelled out by the benefits of such processing.

        If you need vitamins, you have a health problem or you're inflicting malnutrition on yourself.

        Eat properly. Hell, you don't need to even do it every single day! The RDA is literally averaged out. If you don't have much all week and then have some richer foods on the weekend, you are more than covered. A couple of oysters will give you enough zinc to cover you for over a week if you ate *nothing* else. Or just a nice beef roast on a Sunday.

        Seriously, monitor your diet. Put it in a spreadsheet - but don't cheat, just write down what you've eaten for a week or a month. What it was, how much, and DO NOT look at the information on the packet. Just eat normal and record. Take your supplements if you like, just don't include them (they won't be necessary).

        Then go back and add in a column for EVERY nutrient. Then add it all up.

        If you're not 500% on at least one, I'll be amazed. If you're less than 100% on more than 1 or 2, similarly. And that would indicate either a problem with your diet-focus or underlying health. Compensate for that, specifically, knowingly. Take up eating oysters on the weekend or whatever. Then throw the supplements in the bin.

        And that's only a week. Averaged over months, which is far more useful a bit of information, I'll be amazed if you're not 100% all the way.

        Your body isn't stupid - it's only dependent on things it could get hold of thousands of years ago before all this stuff happened. We can now eat tomatoes from Spain in the winter easier than we can find a tomato growing in our own town.

        Supplements are malnutrition compensation, nothing more.

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday July 14 2020, @02:46PM

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday July 14 2020, @02:46PM (#1021259) Journal

      If you have to take supplements, you're malnourished.

      Why do I take vitamins? To ensure I have the most vitamin enriched piss in the world! That's why!

      I also take a separate iron supplement due to being slightly anemic due to the particular type of arthritis I have.

      --
      People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
    • (Score: 2) by choose another one on Tuesday July 14 2020, @04:30PM

      by choose another one (515) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday July 14 2020, @04:30PM (#1021328)

      If you have to take supplements, you're malnourished.

      Now, some people have medical conditions that lead them to such malnourishment, but it's really that simple.

      Don't forget that some people also live at latitudes that their skin pigmentation isn't evolved for (and won't be for many generations). Oddly those people also seem, as a group, to do worse at Covid, but it is more PC to blame "poverty" and "discrimination" (whilst conveniently ignoring the death toll being biased even amongst doctors) than to make the connection.