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posted by Fnord666 on Wednesday July 15 2020, @12:58AM   Printer-friendly
from the ban-hammer dept.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-team-approves-new-terminology-bans-terms-like-blacklist-and-slave/

Linus Torvalds approved on Friday a new and more inclusive terminology for the Linux kernel code and documentation.

Going forward, Linux developers have been asked to use new terms for the master/slave and blacklist/whitelist terminologies.

The Linux team did not recommend any specific terms but asked developers to choose as appropriate.

The new terms are to be used for new source code written for the Linux kernel and its associated documentation.

The older terms, considered inadequate now, will only be allowed for maintaining older code and documentation, or "when updating code for an existing (as of 2020) hardware or protocol specification that mandates those terms."

Also At:
Linux kernel will no longer use terms 'blacklist' and 'slave'


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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @02:05AM (28 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @02:05AM (#1021644)

    some of your ancestors literally had slaves

    literally kept involuntary workers in their home

    imagine that - your ancestors

  • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @02:16AM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @02:16AM (#1021654)

    I'm sure my ancestors, literally, we're slaves.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @03:37AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @03:37AM (#1021699)

      I cans believe dat wit you're engrish above

    • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @03:54AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @03:54AM (#1021713)

      Snap! That was the best fucking comeback of all time to that shit.

      You win the Internets for the day :)

      -- Ed 791

    • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday July 15 2020, @11:03PM

      by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Wednesday July 15 2020, @11:03PM (#1022145) Homepage
      Yeah, but Ghengis Khan.

      Go watch some Adam Rutherford vids - or buy one of his books.
      --
      Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by PaperNoodle on Wednesday July 15 2020, @02:39AM (16 children)

    by PaperNoodle (10908) on Wednesday July 15 2020, @02:39AM (#1021665)

    >your ancestors literally had slaves. literally kept involuntary workers in their home

    Do you assume my race and heritage? Or Do you assume any member of %race% had slaves. Do you assume I came from wealth able to own slaves? Too many assumptions.

    Regardless, if you really care. My ancestors were discriminated against and did not own slaves. Nor wealthy enough to do so. "involuntary workers" describes my childhood. There was always a project to work on given from my father. I praise him for giving me that work even if I hated it at the time.

    --
    B3
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Mykl on Wednesday July 15 2020, @02:56AM (15 children)

      by Mykl (1112) on Wednesday July 15 2020, @02:56AM (#1021679)

      I think GP was sarcastically referring to your ancestors. In other words, anyone in your family tree over the past few thousand years that may have owned slaves at some point.

      Assuming 20 years per generation (historically probably not far off), you have up to 1.2 x 1030 ancestors over the past 2000 years. Even assuming 90% of your ancestors are 'shared' (i.e. branches of the family tree rejoining), that's a hell of a lot of people. At least one of them is guaranteed to have owned slaves at some point.

      In other words, we are all descended from slave owners at some point in our family tree - some of us just a bit more recently than others. Does that make us all bad people?

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by PaperNoodle on Wednesday July 15 2020, @03:10AM (8 children)

        by PaperNoodle (10908) on Wednesday July 15 2020, @03:10AM (#1021684)

        > anyone in your family tree over the past few thousand years that may have owned slaves at some point.

        An assumption. "May not" is as accurate as "may"

        >At least one of them is guaranteed to have owned slaves at some point.

        An Assumption. Guaranteed from envelop math is not evidence.

        >we are all descended from slave owners at some point in our family tree

        An Assumption. Do not use averages to describe individual characteristics and behavior.

        >Does that make us all bad people?

        All I can gather from this conversation and the topic "new terminology banning terms like master and lave" is, yes. Any genealogy judged by modern morality is original sin. It should not matter but then why are words now being changed to accommodate such original sin?

        --
        B3
        • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Wednesday July 15 2020, @03:32AM (5 children)

          by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 15 2020, @03:32AM (#1021696) Journal

          Some how this sounds like the Bene Gesserit discussing ancestral memories.

          Yeah, everyone has ancestors who did abominable things. Accept it. This doesn't mean *you* need to do abominable things.

          As for renaming master-slave, blacklist, etc. Well, ok. If it makes some people uncomfortable, then it's the proper thing to do. But be *very* careful that you explicitly define what the new names mean, and pick terms that won't lead to future confusion. Some of those terms really need to be replaced anyway, because their definitions were quite sloppy, either originally, or became so through usage. Which end of a USB cable is the master? If the printer sends a signal over the cable to a computer telling it to initiate file reception is it the same as if the computer sens a signal to the printer telling it to get ready to print incoming data?

          --
          Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
          • (Score: 1) by PaperNoodle on Wednesday July 15 2020, @03:49AM (4 children)

            by PaperNoodle (10908) on Wednesday July 15 2020, @03:49AM (#1021708)

            >everyone has ancestors who did abominable things. Accept it. This doesn't mean *you* need to do abominable things.

            Does that negate reparations? Can I call on you to pay for reparations? You admit to original sin. I ask for baptism via money to me. You are white, yes? You are wealthy, yes? You have high percentage of ancestors owning slaves, yes? I hear abominable things from you.

            >If it makes some people uncomfortable, then it's the proper thing to do.

            The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Can you predict which wheel will squeak next? When do you ignore the squeaking? I hear abominable things from you and need monetary compensation to appease my ancestors so that I may not be offended on their behalf.

            > their definitions were quite sloppy, either originally, or became so through usage.

            In isolation I would probably agree with you. Context is very important.

            --
            B3
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @04:24AM (3 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @04:24AM (#1021723)

              Does that negate reparations?

              No.

              Can I call on you to pay for reparations?

              No.

              You admit to original sin.

              I do not.

              I ask for baptism via money to me.

              Good luck with that.

              You are white, yes?

              No. I am multicolored.

              You are wealthy, yes?

              That depends on your point of view. Based on my income level, I am absolutely not wealthy in this society (or most any other).

              You have high percentage of ancestors owning slaves, yes?

              Nope. My ancestors were poor Eastern Europeans who have been discriminated against, harassed, murdered and abused for centuries.

              • (Score: 2, Informative) by HiThere on Wednesday July 15 2020, @02:26PM (2 children)

                by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 15 2020, @02:26PM (#1021928) Journal

                Correction. Many of your ancestors. Most of them, however, occurred before Europe even had a name.

                --
                Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @08:07PM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @08:07PM (#1022078)

                  Correction. Many of your ancestors. Most of them, however, occurred before Europe even had a name.

                  I amend my previous statement to be:

                  Nope. My ancestors were poor people living within 500km of Latitude: 50° 27' 16.78" N, Longitude: 30° 31' 25.68" E, who have been discriminated against, harassed, murdered and abused for centuries.

                  Asshole.

                  • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Thursday July 16 2020, @04:29AM

                    by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 16 2020, @04:29AM (#1022282) Journal

                    Some of your ancestors were prosimians. They didn't always act politely.

                    --
                    Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday July 16 2020, @06:03AM (1 child)

          by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Thursday July 16 2020, @06:03AM (#1022303) Homepage
          > "May not" is as accurate as "may"

          That may be true, but is not a refutation of the argument posed. It's classic whattaboutism. You can't prove the absense of a property within members of a set by finding an individual without that property. To refute a claim "there exists an X with property P" you need to put forward an argument that "all X do not have property P". All you've done is claim "there exists an X without property P".
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
          • (Score: 1) by PaperNoodle on Thursday July 16 2020, @02:08PM

            by PaperNoodle (10908) on Thursday July 16 2020, @02:08PM (#1022399)

            No whattaboutism. I didn't bring up any accusation to deflect the topic. I quoted the position and rebutted. I can be wrong or have faulty logic. That's not whattaboutism. Your comment demonstrates as much by arguing the logic or lack there of.

            A statement made with "may" which does not change its meaning with "may not" is a weak position and built on underlying assumptions. We may find the answer to fusion in 15 years. We may solve X. We may not solve X. Something is required to solve X that is assumed can happen in the way that supports my position as demonstrated by this math on my napkin. I assume that is enough evidence to solve X.

            I proved as much as GP proved. I did so with less assumptions. I do not need to prove anything until there is something to actually prove or counter prove.

            --
            B3
      • (Score: 4, Touché) by hendrikboom on Wednesday July 15 2020, @03:11AM (1 child)

        by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 15 2020, @03:11AM (#1021686) Homepage Journal

        and likewise, we are all descended from slaves.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday July 15 2020, @03:40AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 15 2020, @03:40AM (#1021701) Journal
          Plus the typical master-slave relationship has much more slaves than masters.
      • (Score: 2) by inertnet on Wednesday July 15 2020, @08:58AM (3 children)

        by inertnet (4071) on Wednesday July 15 2020, @08:58AM (#1021777) Journal

        At least one of them is guaranteed to have owned slaves at some point.

        I have researched all of them down to the 15th and 16th century. None of them ever had anything to do with slavery. All of them were simple farmers, farm workers and other average people. Based on my haplogroup it is a possibility that a male ancestor of mine entered Europe as a slave, some 25 thousand years ago.

        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday July 16 2020, @06:09AM (2 children)

          by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Thursday July 16 2020, @06:09AM (#1022306) Homepage
          Your unrealistic view on the recording of paternal connections, combined with your unrealistic view on record keeping of any type, gives me no faith in anything else you say. How many nodes are there in the tree you've created, and what level of cosanguinity does it show?
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
          • (Score: 2) by inertnet on Monday July 27 2020, @10:22PM (1 child)

            by inertnet (4071) on Monday July 27 2020, @10:22PM (#1027349) Journal

            I only just saw your questions. Actually the Catholic church kept very accurate baptismal, marriage and death records and many of them can be researched online. It's more than 10 years ago and I forgot where I created my family tree. Others have taken over and added more information. I remember finding only one blood related marriage among many, because it mentions a "marriage permission for cosanguinity in the 3rd and 4th degree" in 1727. The oldest confirmed record of a direct ancestor I could find was from 1462.

            Other than that I have a list of people who, like me, participated in a DNA research program. They differ 6 to 15 mutations from me. In context this means that our most recent common ancestor lived roughly 500 years ago for the 6 mutation difference, to very roughly 1250 years ago for the 15 mutation difference. I've never been able to connect any of their family trees to mine though.

            My haplogroup migrated out of Africa around 25k years ago, long after the first waves of human migration. As a result of slavery would be a plausible scenario, but of course nobody will ever know what really happened that long ago.

            • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday July 28 2020, @12:15AM

              by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Tuesday July 28 2020, @12:15AM (#1027419) Homepage
              Avoidance of the actual question asked noted.
              What was proferred as a response, however, tells me all I need to know.
              --
              Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @03:58AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @03:58AM (#1021716)

    imagine that

    You mean, people like me - smart people, finest in our class -owned other people? What? Respectable, erudite people like me who can dispute the exact meaning of ancestor until it disappears? Not me.

  • (Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @10:58AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @10:58AM (#1021809)

    How do you know with any degree of certainty?

    And even if true, why should the sins of my ancestors affect me?

    • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday July 16 2020, @06:11AM

      by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Thursday July 16 2020, @06:11AM (#1022307) Homepage
      Wooooosh!

      Try to understand a poster's point before responding to it.
      --
      Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Bot on Wednesday July 15 2020, @12:01PM

    by Bot (3902) on Wednesday July 15 2020, @12:01PM (#1021836) Journal

    SO FUCKING WHAT?
    If you go the slippery slope of collective responsibility, you both provide a shield for those who succeed in making you believe they were oppressed to perpetrate arbitrary acts of violence, and you create a class of enemies to fight against.
    Not that I care about the violence itself, it's always been like that and it will stop only when a WORSE system gets operative. It is YOU that should be caring about YOUR SOUL.

    It's not only a matter of religion "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that WORK INIQUITY". It is about your life becoming somebody else's weapon.

    Linux adopting newspeak? it is time to fork.

    --
    Account abandoned.
  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @07:13PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @07:13PM (#1022052)

    Is your last name Farrier? Baker? Cooper? Faulkner? Fisher? Sawyer? Thatcher? Wright? Or is your last name based on the location where you were a serf, or maybe from the name of the lord that owned the land? Perhaps you are Slavic in descent, where so many of you were forced into servitude that your peoples name was used to mean an enslaved person.

    What is happening here is that you have a group of people who is closer to when they were considered slaves, and in a position to complain about it. Something only a free people can do. The actual slaves in Africa and the Middle East today do not have this luxury.

    I would rather see the evils that we have done and understand the history of it, than erase them from our history and hide that they ever occurred.

    To add to the list of things we need to do away with we need also consider some greetings, Ciao in particular,

    The word derives from the Venetian phrase s-ciào vostro or s-ciào su literally meaning "I am your slave".[1] This greeting is analogous to the medieval Latin Servus which is still used colloquially in parts of Central/Eastern Europe or the antiquated English valediction "Your Obedient Servant."[2] The expression was not a literal statement of fact, but rather a perfunctory promise of good will among friends (along the lines of "at your service" in English). The Venetian word for "slave", s-ciào [ˈstʃao] or s-ciàvo, derives from Medieval Latin sclavus, deriving from the ethnic "Slavic", since most of the slaves came from the Balkans.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciao [wikipedia.org]

    Slavery has existed in the world since the first conquered hunter-gatherer some tens of thousands of years ago offered to work in exchange for his life, and we have been trying to right that wrong ever since.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @07:21PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @07:21PM (#1022056)

      Millennials will bring back debt slavery, and it will be glorious.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 16 2020, @05:30PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 16 2020, @05:30PM (#1022486)

    no they didn't, you stupid fucking bolshevik bitch.